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GranbyTroll

Stalling on Top (Rule 5.9.3.2)

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In regards to either wrestler stalling on the mat, the NCAA rule book says:

 

"5.9.3.2- Either wrestler pushing or pulling the opponent out of bounds to

prevent scoring."

 

During the Southern Scuffle webcast, the Flo commentators made several comments about refs not hitting top wrestlers for stalling when they pushed the standing bottom wrestleroff the mat to prevent an escape. By the rule book, this action is stalling, so why don't refs call it? How does the NCAA wrestling community fix this disregard for a clearly written rule?

 

Mat wrestling would be much more exciting and dynamic if the top wrestler faced repercussions for forcing the standing bottom wrestler off the mat.

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agree agree!!. It's easy to see and should be called.....DT is one of the worst offenders of pushing guys off the mat when they get to their feet. MANY times he makes NO attempt to take them back to the mat and simply drives them, from the center of the mat, off the mat.

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It says pushing or pulling off. If I am a top wrestler and you are coming up or are up, I need to put forward pressure to get you down. That may look like pushing off to some but it may be trying to get you back to the mat. The officials are right there and may, at times, feel the top guy is actually trying to return him or regain control. I think too many people complain about stalling.

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AGREE! I hate the way the refs don't enforce rules. They rarely call guys for not getting off to a side or even attempting to turn. DT although is a turner, he is parallel more than he is not.

 

nowhere in the rules does it say you have to get off to the side. breaking the guy down and attempting to turn him from parallel is just fine.

 

the original post is spot on. in hs I hate when they don't hit the top guy for fleeing, and in college they made it easier to call by turning it into a stalling infraction.

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It says pushing or pulling off. If I am a top wrestler and you are coming up or are up, I need to put forward pressure to get you down. That may look like pushing off to some but it may be trying to get you back to the mat. The officials are right there and may, at times, feel the top guy is actually trying to return him or regain control. I think too many people complain about stalling.

 

it's very easy to tell the difference, especially when the bottom guy is making a great effort to stay in. I don't have a problem when its questionable, but most of these guys aren't even calling it when the bottom guy is able to turn directions and what started as a push turns into a pull to get him off the mat.

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In regards to either wrestler stalling on the mat, the NCAA rule book says:

 

"5.9.3.2- Either wrestler pushing or pulling the opponent out of bounds to

prevent scoring."

 

During the Southern Scuffle webcast, the Flo commentators made several comments about refs not hitting top wrestlers for stalling when they pushed the standing bottom wrestleroff the mat to prevent an escape. By the rule book, this action is stalling, so why don't refs call it? How does the NCAA wrestling community fix this disregard for a clearly written rule?

 

Mat wrestling would be much more exciting and dynamic if the top wrestler faced repercussions for forcing the standing bottom wrestler off the mat.

Not only do I agree, but I cannot count how many times I have ranted about this very topic, to just about everybody except for the statue of Dan Gable.

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it's very easy to tell the difference, especially when the bottom guy is making a great effort to stay in. I don't have a problem when its questionable, but most of these guys aren't even calling it when the bottom guy is able to turn directions and what started as a push turns into a pull to get him off the mat.

 

The Southern Scuffle finals were so lousy with this that Bader and Roper (?) spent a few minutes talking about it in multiple matches.

 

There is some murkiness around when the top guy drops down to a leg to prevent an escape; you have to drive forward (often out of bounds) to finish the leg attack and bring the bottom wrestler back down. In the rear standing position, however, even my sister can tell when the top wrestler is forcing out.

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sorry I may not be as smart as some sisters but if the bottom guy is running forward and the top guy is chasing, who is leaving the mat. I agree that it is easy to tell when stalling but listening on here, I would think people want stalling all the time. Enjoy the match and stop complaining, or ref?

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sorry I may not be as smart as some sisters but if the bottom guy is running forward and the top guy is chasing, who is leaving the mat. I agree that it is easy to tell when stalling but listening on here, I would think people want stalling all the time. Enjoy the match and stop complaining, or ref?

 

You can tell based on the motivation of each wrestler. If the bottom guy needs to earn an escape to win the match, why would he waste energy and match time to work up to his feet only to run out of bounds and net zero points? In that situation, the top man is "pushing or pulling the opponent out of bounds to prevent scoring," and is stalling based on the NCAA rule book. On the flip side, if the bottom man needs to not give up a nearfall to win, and manages to roll out of bounds, the he's stalling.

 

Why write the rules this way if the refs don't have to enforce it?

 

edit: formatting.

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It says pushing or pulling off. If I am a top wrestler and you are coming up or are up, I need to put forward pressure to get you down. That may look like pushing off to some but it may be trying to get you back to the mat. The officials are right there and may, at times, feel the top guy is actually trying to return him or regain control. I think too many people complain about stalling.

If the bottom wrestler gets to his feet, he should have the opportunity to complete his escape attempt without being forced out of bounds. See the Miller-Dieringer OT rideout at the Scuffle.

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Fleeing is the right call in high school + 5 million. I can't understand why such a call is no longer a possibility in college. I suppose that officiating at any level has become so wildly inconsistent that it was removed to prevent the official's judgement from coming into play in that situation.

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Nice posts Granby and others. Totally agree.

 

I've been pretty vocal and passionate on neutral stalling. Rules 5.9.1 and 5.9.2 get abused ALL the time.

 

It seems like NCAA officials are just oblivious to these rules.

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one can always spot the posters who couldn't get off bottom. Watch the technique of the guys who are ridden out. Few of them come up. Most of them lunge forward with no hand or wrist and the official right on top of it looking for any excuse to call locked hands on top. !/2 the time when attempting a turn PD is called or the official is constantly nagging "watch the shoulder" Few ever suggest that if the pressure is too much you can give it up. They know the coaches fans and the kids parents are all yelling watch the knee, watch the shoulder or stalling on top. Which poster can name an AA who couldn't get off bottom? As I recall Kyle Dake escaped from DT ,who may be the best top rider I've seen, in both matches last year

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As I am writing this I am watching a dual where Walsh gets called for stalling for pushing out of bounds...

 

Simple if radical solution... If you are on top and your push your opponent out of bonds you are demonstrating that you are not capable of controlling them on the mat and they get awarded an escape. Actually the same thing should apply when someone is "riding" by hanging onto a leg. In sure there are a lot of kinks to work out in my proposed rule change but it would make riding much more exciting, or at least shorter in duration .

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one can always spot the posters who couldn't get off bottom. Watch the technique of the guys who are ridden out. Few of them come up. Most of them lunge forward with no hand or wrist and the official right on top of it looking for any excuse to call locked hands on top. !/2 the time when attempting a turn PD is called or the official is constantly nagging "watch the shoulder" Few ever suggest that if the pressure is too much you can give it up. They know the coaches fans and the kids parents are all yelling watch the knee, watch the shoulder or stalling on top. Which poster can name an AA who couldn't get off bottom? As I recall Kyle Dake escaped from DT ,who may be the best top rider I've seen, in both matches last year

Let me go further, ironically...what's the most difficult position for a college coach to scout, and the position an elite high school wrestler spends the least time in? Getting off bottom...

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As I am writing this I am watching a dual where Walsh gets called for stalling for pushing out of bounds...

 

Simple if radical solution... If you are on top and your push your opponent out of bonds you are demonstrating that you are not capable of controlling them on the mat and they get awarded an escape. Actually the same thing should apply when someone is "riding" by hanging onto a leg. In sure there are a lot of kinks to work out in my proposed rule change but it would make riding much more exciting, or at least shorter in duration .

 

Yes. I've posted the same thoughts previously. Not sure what unintended consequences a rule change might bring about, but I hate to keep seeing two minute "rideouts" where bottom wrestlers are on their feet (one or both) for the MAJORITY of the periods and are FORCED about of bounds time and again.

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one can always spot the posters who couldn't get off bottom. Watch the technique of the guys who are ridden out. Few of them come up. Most of them lunge forward with no hand or wrist and the official right on top of it looking for any excuse to call locked hands on top. !/2 the time when attempting a turn PD is called or the official is constantly nagging "watch the shoulder" Few ever suggest that if the pressure is too much you can give it up. They know the coaches fans and the kids parents are all yelling watch the knee, watch the shoulder or stalling on top. Which poster can name an AA who couldn't get off bottom? As I recall Kyle Dake escaped from DT ,who may be the best top rider I've seen, in both matches last year

Let me go further, ironically...what's the most difficult position for a college coach to scout, and the position an elite high school wrestler spends the least time in? Getting off bottom...

 

SHP............ you sure can tell if the guy TRIES to get off bottom..does he hit a move on the whistle? Or does he simply base out or "freestyle" from the bottom......if so..I doubt if he know how to get out.

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So the two things I am hearing are this; If you are ahead, you are stalling. If you are on top and not turning them, you are stalling.

 

If this is true why don't we just wrestle freestyle?

 

I agree that if a bottom guy stands up, and the top wrestler does not return him in about 5 seconds, he should be hit with stalling. If someone is "obviously pushing or running of the mat, yes stalling. But any set rule that takes the hard work to ride a guy out, out of wrestling I think is wrong.

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I agree that if a bottom guy stands up, and the top wrestler does not return him in about 5 seconds, he should be hit with stalling. If someone is "obviously pushing or running of the mat, yes stalling.

 

 

That's all I wanted to talk about in this thread. Anyone who has watched wrestling, and can see the scoreboard knows when the top wrestler is forcing a standing bottom wrestler out of bounds. The rulebook defines that as stalling, let's get the refs to make that call.

 

 

But any set rule that takes the hard work to ride a guy out, out of wrestling I think is wrong.

 

A really well executed rideout against a bottom wrestler really fighting like a dog is very exciting to watch IMO. Dake beating Taylor on a riding point was one of the most exciting matches I have seen.

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In regards to either wrestler stalling on the mat, the NCAA rule book says:

 

"5.9.3.2- Either wrestler pushing or pulling the opponent out of bounds to

prevent scoring."

 

During the Southern Scuffle webcast, the Flo commentators made several comments about refs not hitting top wrestlers for stalling when they pushed the standing bottom wrestleroff the mat to prevent an escape. By the rule book, this action is stalling, so why don't refs call it? How does the NCAA wrestling community fix this disregard for a clearly written rule?

 

Mat wrestling would be much more exciting and dynamic if the top wrestler faced repercussions for forcing the standing bottom wrestler off the mat.

You gotta take the bad with the good.

First of all I wouldnt rely on rope and dope commentary to determine if it was stalling.

Any time you have a reward for "riding" you also open it up for stalling. Riding time has gotten to be such a sexy thing in wrestling that refs feel the pressure not to call it. They dont call backing off the mat in neutral, why call pushing off the mat?

The object should be to pin your opponent or attempt to pin or get called for stalling. If the rider uses any move ...spiral ride, claw, uses legs, locks his hands or legs ..power half, side headlock figure 4 the leg, scissors etc... he should be given a 10 or 15 count to turn or the first time is a stalemate...next time is stalling.

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So the two things I am hearing are this; If you are ahead, you are stalling. If you are on top and not turning them, you are stalling.

 

If this is true why don't we just wrestle freestyle?

 

I agree that if a bottom guy stands up, and the top wrestler does not return him in about 5 seconds, he should be hit with stalling. If someone is "obviously pushing or running of the mat, yes stalling. But any set rule that takes the hard work to ride a guy out, out of wrestling I think is wrong.

 

teach if you are ahead and "shut down" you are stalling......... if you are on top and not working to turn and simply trying to ride....you are stalling. A "hard ride" should include working to turn your opponent. THE GOAL is and should ALWAYS be pinning your opponent.

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