is scholly cash figured at Instate or out

[LtWtLooker 0]

I'm talking state unis of course

[gimpeltf 2,075]

I'm talking state unis of course

 

 

It's figured on a per kid basis. If he's in-state then with instate figures. If out then with out of state. The Big 10 programs got in trouble in the early 90s (right around the same time as the OSU issue). I forget which way it was but they were using the wrong figures in the most beneficial way they could from a bookkeeping standpoint. Iowa seemed to have more than the others and they were docked a few scholarships for a few years. It wasn't a huge figure as each one was a matter of tenths.

[LtWtLooker 0]

Thanks Gimp. sounds like the Fed Gov should use NCAA accountants

[pennsyrules 222]

Gimp, let me try to understand this:

 

1. So you are saying that a university does not care if a school has in state or out of state kids? in other words, if it cost $15k for in state tuition and $24k for out of state tuition and I have 9.9 full rides, then I can use all that money for out of state kids? In other words, here are two scenarios:

 

Use my 9.9 full rides on out of state kids = $237600

Use my 9.9 full rides on in state kids = $148500

 

I guess it makes sense because it really doesn't cost the school anymore(except maybe on paper) to have a kid from in state or out of state.

[olddirty 346]

Gimp, let me try to understand this:

 

1. So you are saying that a university does not care if a school has in state or out of state kids? in other words, if it cost $15k for in state tuition and $24k for out of state tuition and I have 9.9 full rides, then I can use all that money for out of state kids? In other words, here are two scenarios:

 

Use my 9.9 full rides on out of state kids = $237600

Use my 9.9 full rides on in state kids = $148500

 

I guess it makes sense because it really doesn't cost the school anymore(except maybe on paper) to have a kid from in state or out of state.

 

It doesnt matter to the university because they are giving the money out for scholarship, and getting the money right back. It is tuition remission. No money is actually transferred hand to hand. The university is essentially handing out free classes, not free money.

[FATMANROLL 54]

It all depends on what the wrestling team has for $$ available.

 

The NCAA says that a D1 school can give 9.9 full scholarships.

 

9.9 full out of states might cost 2x as much as 9.9 in states. Each scholarship is counted on a case by case basis

 

Some schools only have avaialable a certain amount of dollars, It might be enough to only cover 9.9 in states or maybe even 9.9 outs. It is up to the coach and the AD to assure they don't go over the 9.9 full ride equivalents

[BigApple 86]

The athletic department at OU is not funded by the university, in fact the athletic department has contributed several million to the university's general fund.

 

Since most wrestlers are not on a full scholarship, the coaches try to sign the out of state kids for tuition, and the in state kids for room and board.

[olddirty 346]

It is much easier to think about it as credits instead of scholarship dollars. 1.0 scholarship is equal to16 credit hours per athlete.

[gimpeltf 2,075]

Gimp, let me try to understand this:

 

1. So you are saying that a university does not care if a school has in state or out of state kids? in other words, if it cost $15k for in state tuition and $24k for out of state tuition and I have 9.9 full rides, then I can use all that money for out of state kids? In other words, here are two scenarios:

 

Use my 9.9 full rides on out of state kids = $237600

Use my 9.9 full rides on in state kids = $148500

 

I guess it makes sense because it really doesn't cost the school anymore(except maybe on paper) to have a kid from in state or out of state.

 

 

Who said anything about whether they cared or not? As to NCAA 9.9 limits, it's about the number of kids. As to how much needs to be funded it's about instate/oos for a state school.

[Plasmodium 2,263]

States subsidize most of the tuition costs for instate students.

[2nd4x 0]

I'm not sure where some of you are geting your information about no costing real dollars and it's just a paper transfer of money to the school. Not true.

Why do you think programs fundraise and have endowments to supplement their athleic aid.

 

Not real hard concept in state cost $20,000; out of state cost $40,00

coach offers athlete $10,000. In state equiliviancy .5 ; Out of State .25 of a schollarship.

 

If prgram has cap on scholarship budget - spend all your money and add up the equilancies.

If Program has unlimited funds - spend until you hit 9.9

 

The belief that the state instituitions are subsudized and it doesn't cost much is totally off the mark.

With that being said - schools with limited scholarship budgets get more bang for their money on In-State kids.

[Plasmodium 2,263]

My point is that the states subsidize the education of instate students, so the school gives up that subsidy when they have an out of state student and it winds up costing actual money.

You assert that a full scholarship for an out of state student counts two scholarships against the 9.9 maximum. That sounds crazy. Are you sure that its crazy enough to be true?

[gimpeltf 2,075]

You assert that a full scholarship for an out of state student counts two scholarships against the 9.9 maximum.

 

Who said that?

2nd4x simply did some math saying that $10k was .5 of an instate 20k and .25 of an oos 40k.

It costs more to give someone oos the scholarship for the state schools.

[Plasmodium 2,263]

I stand corrected.

[buf87 84]

If the program is fully funded by the university, it doesn't matter if the coach uses the scholarship money on 9.9 out of state scholarships or 9.9 in-state scholarships or a combination.

[gimpeltf 2,075]

If the program is fully funded by the university, it doesn't matter if the coach uses the scholarship money on 9.9 out of state scholarships or 9.9 in-state scholarships or a combination.

 

 

Not to the NCAA. It might matter to the University.

[olddirty 346]

I'm not sure where some of you are geting your information about no costing real dollars and it's just a paper transfer of money to the school. Not true.

Why do you think programs fundraise and have endowments to supplement their athleic aid.

 

Not real hard concept in state cost $20,000; out of state cost $40,00

coach offers athlete $10,000. In state equiliviancy .5 ; Out of State .25 of a schollarship.

 

If prgram has cap on scholarship budget - spend all your money and add up the equilancies.

If Program has unlimited funds - spend until you hit 9.9

 

The belief that the state instituitions are subsudized and it doesn't cost much is totally off the mark.

With that being said - schools with limited scholarship budgets get more bang for their money on In-State kids.

 

Maybe what I posted came off wrong. I was trying to make the concept of in state/out of state on an individual basis easier to understand. However, the transferring of money is real, at least in my experience as an athlete and coach.

 

The university gives money to the athletic department general fund. That money is then divied out for sport budgets and scholarships. Like you said, each sport will then fundraise to supplement. At that point, the money is sent back to the university financial aid office, who takes the tuition out before the student can ever touch it.

[BigApple 86]

Please read my original post. Some schools such as OU have athletic departments that are completely self supporting. When OU was going thru the Schnellenberger-Blake era the worst 4 years in school history, the athletic department had to borrow money from the university. The firing of John Blake and hiring of Bib Stoops reversed the fortunes of the athletic department. In most cases the BCS football programs don't receive any financial support from the university. So the 9.9 scholarships for the major powers aren't a $ limit, only a number limit.

[buf87 84]

If the program is fully funded by the university, it doesn't matter if the coach uses the scholarship money on 9.9 out of state scholarships or 9.9 in-state scholarships or a combination.

 

 

Not to the NCAA. It might matter to the University.

 

All I was told is Iowa State is fully funded and it does not matter if KJ gives all the scholarships to out of state. He still has 9.9 to give.

 

If that is not the case for a university, then it is not fully funded. And there are many that aren't fully funded.

 

That's the was I was explained it.

[pennsyrules 222]

I'm still a little slow on this and I'm not even sure if anyone knows for sure what they are talking about but it does interest me, so here are a few scenarios.

 

Scenario A.

I have 9 scholarships total. I am just starting my program and decide to use them all with my first recruiting class. I also decide to use them on all kids who do not qualify for any financial aid, in other words, all their parents make too much money to qualify or any aid. I also decide to give everyone a full ride.

 

1. Therefore, whether the kid is from in state or out of state, or a combination of both, I can only offer 9 kids a full scholarship. true or false

 

2. I can bring in 9 kids from out of state despite the tuition for those kids being double what an in state kid costs. true or false

 

Scenario II.

Now, I have 9 scholarships total. Same scenario as above except now all my kids are partial need meaning they qualify for 50% financial aid in grants.

 

1. I can still only bring in 9 of these kids a full scholarship, despite the cost being much less because of grants and other need based items? true or false

 

2. Since I have only 50% to cover, I can bring in 18 kids at 1/2 full ride? true or false

[gimpeltf 2,075]

A. 1. 9.9 but yes.

2. Yes.

 

I'll assume this was a little bit of Archie Bunker humor here switching from A to II.

 

II. 1. The first part of the statement is true. But unless the money came from outside of the University entirely the cost is the same. Just from a different pocket.

2. No, in the sense that I think you mean here. Unless the aid was academic and without regard to athletic ability, once $1 of athletic aid is applied the whole amount is added together and becomes the amount of scholarship given. However, it is true that, outside of football, you can give 18 (19.8) .5s.

 

As to the other post saying it doesn't matter where KJ gives the money, it does matter to how much money it takes and it may matter to the people that created the fund if eventually everyone was out of state. The money had to come from somewhere- I don't think the Cyclones have their own mint.

[sbdude 16]

A couple points/observations:

[*:2f46qhwi]There are hard costs associated with scholarships. If scholarships were "free" to the school and cost no money then every program would be fully funded. Remember a full ride scholarship includes tuition, room, board, books, fees, etc. There are a lot of hard costs there (food, fees) and a lot of soft costs (loss of room rental to provide a room for free to scholarship athlete for example). Scholarships are not "free" to the school.
[*:2f46qhwi]I think you have to separate the 9.9 (or whatever number) from the dollars. The 9.9 is NCAA reg - the dollars are what coaches have to spend and then stay within the 9.9. The schools that I am familiar with have X amount of dollars to spend on scholarships not X amount of scholarships. They can split up the X amount of dollars however they want but must be careful to stay within the 9.9. For example, let's say a school has $100K in their budget to spend for scholarships and tuition is $10K for in-state (IS) and $20K for out of state (OOS). They could sign 5 OOS kids to full rides or could get more bang for their buck and sign some IS kids. But if they sign all IS kids they won't be able to use ALL their 100K budget as that would put them over the 9.9 limit on scholarships. And coaches are allowed to split the scholarship funds up so they are very aware of trying to make the best use of the funds they have available. I think it probably depends upon the program, but it may be possible to spend unused but budgeted scholarship dollars on other things meaning they get more bang for their buck by signing in state kids.
[*:2f46qhwi]Therein also lies the difference between schools that are "fully funded" with 9.9 scholarships. Some schools say they are fully funded but the level of dollars available is based upon in-state tuition. Another school may be fully funded based upon out of state tuition. In the example above, that difference would be $99K of funds available between the two schools. One school would be able to offer more money to kids if they were recruiting out of state.
[*:2f46qhwi]I'm pretty sure you can't mix athletic aid with other aid and call it a partial scholarship. If you offer athletic aid of any amount, then the total of all aid they receive counts against the scholarship limit.

That's the way I understand it but I could be wrong.

[zeeb 0]

If the program is fully funded by the university, it doesn't matter if the coach uses the scholarship money on 9.9 out of state scholarships or 9.9 in-state scholarships or a combination.

 

 

Not to the NCAA. It might matter to the University.

 

All I was told is Iowa State is fully funded and it does not matter if KJ gives all the scholarships to out of state. He still has 9.9 to give.

 

If that is not the case for a university, then it is not fully funded. And there are many that aren't fully funded.

 

That's the was I was explained it.

 

The Big XII and Big 10 schools are fully funded, plus some others. So for those schools it is a hard 9.9 limit, regardless of in-state or out of state. But for most schools there is only so much money to go around, so getting in state talent is important so that they can get more athlete for their money.

 

And even for fully funded schools I'm sure it has an impact - money spent on an out of state scholarship could instead be spent on new mats, or flying to a meet rather than taking a bus, etc...

[novalion 5]

***I'm pretty sure you can't mix athletic aid with other aid and call it a partial scholarship. If you offer athletic aid of any amount, then the total of all aid they receive counts against the scholarship limit.***

 

That statement is not correct except for head count sports like football and basketball. For wrestling as long as the non athletic aid is not based on their wrestling ability then that aid does NOT count against the 9.9. For instance, someone that qualifies for 50% aid based on family finances you can then offer them a 50% athletic ship and it only counts as 0.5 against the 9.9 limit.

[gimpeltf 2,075]

***I'm pretty sure you can't mix athletic aid with other aid and call it a partial scholarship. If you offer athletic aid of any amount, then the total of all aid they receive counts against the scholarship limit.***

 

That statement is not correct except for head count sports like football and basketball. For wrestling as long as the non athletic aid is not based on their wrestling ability then that aid does NOT count against the 9.9. For instance, someone that qualifies for 50% aid based on family finances you can then offer them a 50% athletic ship and it only counts as 0.5 against the 9.9 limit.

 

 

The latter statement suggesting the earlier one is incorrect, is incorrect as stated previously. It would take too many cuts and pastes from the Manual but- as of now- if any institutional financial aid relates to athletic ability then it all does with certain exceptions. Those exceptions mainly involve academic achievement, postgraduate scholarships, federal/state grants based on need. There was a proposal this past year to not include need based aid in the calculation but it failed in the review process.