tOSU vs. Wisconsin

[mgrimm 9]

I wouldn't call it a spanking- four matches to six. We can thank #4 Heflin for losing to an unranked guy - which was the major difference. I couldn't tell if McCall looked pretty dangerous, or if Heflin just thought he could coast. I'd rather believe the former, but Heflin sucks at scoring points. There's nothing to love about that, and losing is an inevitable part of that strategy.

I don't understand sitting DiJulius, unless he wasn't well. His schedule doesn't look too tough going forward either, except the national duals that I don't really know about yet. If he wrestles at Illinois and wins, then sure, it was a greasy move. If he gets to the B1G with one loss and gets the first seed, then he still has to beat a top 10 guy in the semis, and a top 5 in the finals. It's too early to speculate what that does for his NCAAs, though. My guess is nothing at all. 133 is wide open.

jeffr, c'mon, drama makes things interesting, and I'm not impressed either, but calling for the end of Tom Ryan is silly. And, Snaps, we've all known since last spring that this would be a growth year for the Buckeyes, and that's what it is. I have no reason to doubt Ryan. He has his vision.

BS. I was a full scale, all out, spanking. I was there. The Badgers took it them and almost took 8 out of 10 matches. It was cowardly for Ryan to sit DiJulius. Pure BS.

[denger 339]

Tomasello - probable AA

DiJulius - probable AA

The Bear - probable Champ

The Hunt - definite AA

non point scorer

BOJO - possible AA, definite point scorer

Martin - possible point scorer

Courts - possible AA, probable point scorer

The All American with No Offense - probable AA

non point scorer

 

This line up might just place 4th or 5th behind, PSU, Iowa, OSU, and MN if it all goes right this year. whooopty friggin dooo!

[LemonPie 1,368]

in no way is Heflin a probable AA. He is average at this weight

[denger 339]

in no way is Heflin a probable AA. He is average at this weight

 

The whole top 20 is "average" at this weight class. I don't see how Heflin is any more or less effective here than the other two weights below him. He's only ever won on positioning anyway, and he doesn't seem outsized.

 

He might as well not be starving while keeping his hips low, earning escapes, and avoiding the studs at 184.

[madcat11 434]

Agree. Enough is enough. Wrestle your best athletes.

 

BS. Most of the top schools redshirt their freshmen, unless it's a guy the feel is going to push them over the top to win a title.

 

Not at the expense of sacrificing an entire year's worth of competition, especially with Demas already out.

[JasonBryant 2,064]

This is ugly.

 

AWN/TOM ranking Ryan Taylor 19 is a joke. Only losses to NCAA champ Delgado and #7 Peters.

 

Dominated #9 Terao 15-8.

 

Let's look at the whole picture.

 

Taylor beat Terao the first week of the season. Terao was ranked #12 at the time and Taylor was unranked. Until beating Roberts, the only other kid ranked he beat was Brandon Jeske, who finally broke into the rankings last week at #20 and was an unranked true freshman at the time.

 

Terao since has wins over Zanetta (then #9 or so), Dance, Hall, Richardson, Deutsch (then #10 or so) Cox (then #4), and had a solid Scuffle.

 

Taylor would have surely moved up had he competed at The Midlands, but until Roberts, he had only one win over a then-ranked opponent.

 

So Taylor's best win until Friday was two months ago. Hard to carry one victory when you only had one notable win to start with. Terao also outplaced Peters in Vegas. Taylor's going to move up, but you have to consider the whole season rather than one win in week one. Otherwise rankings would never change after November results.

 

Just food for thought. If you look at any ranking, you'll find guys ranked below people they have beaten, but it's because (for the most part), the totality of the season is the factor, not just one match from early november.

[wrestle09 0]

A very good and thorough explanation.....thanks Jason

[Flying-Tiger 617]

Yes, I enjoy when the guys that do the ranking defend their numbers. JB and Vais do an excellent job at this.

 

In regard to Ryan, I think there are two separate issues being discussed and mixed together. One is the redshirting of the freshman plus H. Stieber. I agree with this. As denger noted above, even with their best lineup, tOSU may not be able to crack the top 4 or 5 this season. Why not let the young guys get some experience and come out with guns blazing next season. PSU did this with Taylor, Ruth and Wright.

 

The other issue is the fact that Ryan seems to like to sit his starters against key opponents during the season. I've seen it enough to think this is a seed protecting strategy Ryan implements and I don't care for it. Sitting Dijulius against Graff is just one more example and I think it sends the wrong message to his wrestlers and isn't very ethical.

[Wire 23]

Yes, I enjoy when the guys that do the ranking defend their numbers. JB and Vais do an excellent job at this.

 

I enjoy it when people Rank On the Rankers, when they themselves have never done a National Level, entire D1 Ranking themselves.

 

Just sayin'

[Wire 23]

Agree. Enough is enough. Wrestle your best athletes.

 

BS. Most of the top schools redshirt their freshmen, unless it's a guy the feel is going to push them over the top to win a title.

 

Not at the expense of sacrificing an entire year's worth of competition, especially with Demas already out.

 

Wasn't this Rayan's whole plan from the beginning a year or so back? He had a bunch of guys he wanted to "salt" away, and then come roaring back NEXT year. In fact we've recently seen posts, that outlined Next Years Lineup, and if in fact, it unfolds as anticipated, tOSU is going to be a BEAST next year.

 

The entire season includes the NCAA's .... tOSU could very well end up top 5 this year.

[npope 174]

The other issue is the fact that Ryan seems to like to sit his starters against key opponents during the season. I've seen it enough to think this is a seed protecting strategy Ryan implements and I don't care for it. Sitting Dijulius against Graff is just one more example and I think it sends the wrong message to his wrestlers and isn't very ethical.

 

Although I don't know the specifics, Ryan also didn't put Stieber on the mat against Graff in last year's dual. A pattern, perhaps?

[tbert 563]

I wouldn't call it a spanking- four matches to six. We can thank #4 Heflin for losing to an unranked guy - which was the major difference. I couldn't tell if McCall looked pretty dangerous, or if Heflin just thought he could coast. I'd rather believe the former, but Heflin sucks at scoring points. There's nothing to love about that, and losing is an inevitable part of that strategy.

I don't understand sitting DiJulius, unless he wasn't well. His schedule doesn't look too tough going forward either, except the national duals that I don't really know about yet. If he wrestles at Illinois and wins, then sure, it was a greasy move. If he gets to the B1G with one loss and gets the first seed, then he still has to beat a top 10 guy in the semis, and a top 5 in the finals. It's too early to speculate what that does for his NCAAs, though. My guess is nothing at all. 133 is wide open.

jeffr, c'mon, drama makes things interesting, and I'm not impressed either, but calling for the end of Tom Ryan is:

silly. And, Snaps, we've all known since last spring that this would be a growth year for the Buckeyes, and that's what it is. I have no reason to doubt Ryan. He has his vision.

 

I couldn't tell if #4 Heflin is grossly over ranked or just beat by a better wrestler.

[tec87 349]

I wouldn't call it a spanking- four matches to six. We can thank #4 Heflin for losing to an unranked guy - which was the major difference. I couldn't tell if McCall looked pretty dangerous, or if Heflin just thought he could coast. I'd rather believe the former, but Heflin sucks at scoring points. There's nothing to love about that, and losing is an inevitable part of that strategy.

I don't understand sitting DiJulius, unless he wasn't well. His schedule doesn't look too tough going forward either, except the national duals that I don't really know about yet. If he wrestles at Illinois and wins, then sure, it was a greasy move. If he gets to the B1G with one loss and gets the first seed, then he still has to beat a top 10 guy in the semis, and a top 5 in the finals. It's too early to speculate what that does for his NCAAs, though. My guess is nothing at all. 133 is wide open.

jeffr, c'mon, drama makes things interesting, and I'm not impressed either, but calling for the end of Tom Ryan is:

silly. And, Snaps, we've all known since last spring that this would be a growth year for the Buckeyes, and that's what it is. I have no reason to doubt Ryan. He has his vision.

 

I couldn't tell if #4 Heflin is grossly over ranked or just beat by a better wrestler.

 

 

To answer the first part, I will say he was grossly over ranked in the first place. He was a 2 time AA placing 5th both times but he's moved up 2 weight classes from last year. Yes 197 is a little more open but he's done nothing at 197 to warrant a #4 ranking. As for the second part, maybe he did get beat by a better wrestler. I don't have an answer for that one.

[BDB50 11]

Given what we have seen of tOSU's upper weights.......little to less, I can't believe Kyle Snyder's fascination with the "workout partners" and coaching he will get in Columbus!!! I see. Heflin, Courts, Camp and too many others falling short both in terms of results and attitude to justify his choosing to be a Buckeye.

 

I admit, I'm disappointed he didn't end up in Happy Valley, but damned.......just didn't make much sense.

[madcat11 434]

Given what we have seen of tOSU's upper weights.......little to less, I can't believe Kyle Snyder's fascination with the "workout partners" and coaching he will get in Columbus!!! I see. Heflin, Courts, Camp and too many others falling short both in terms of results and attitude to justify his choosing to be a Buckeye.

 

I admit, I'm disappointed he didn't end up in Happy Valley, but damned.......just didn't make much sense.

 

Dlagnev, Bergman, Rowlands, Pucillo. Haines should be okay too. He's no Nevills though (amiright).

[MSU158 1,980]

Careful gentlemen. I called out Tom Ryan a while back for selectively holding back wrestlers and was attacked quite vehemently by certain tOSU supporters. I am certain someone close to the program will have some inside info that yet again clears Ryan of any suspicious activity.

[snapspinscore 44]

I dont have a problem with redshirting those guys. I have a problem with the consistent ducking of competition Ryan seems to be involved with. Whether he is trying to preserve a seed or not, you wrestle your guys. I also dont understand why the RS guys never wrestle in top open tournaments. If you want to sit your guys and get another year of college under their belt, that is fine with me. How are they going to benefit from the RS season, without any quality matches during the RS season? Makes no sense to me.

[Badger Fan 27]

While I am enjoying "the" Wisconsin Badgers win last night, I am not sure why some OSU Fans are getting so upset…

 

Next year you will probably have

 

125 Tomasello

133 DiJulius

141 Stieber

149 Stieber

165 Jordan

174 Martin

184 Courts

 

That is pretty impressive. If the goal is to win a Team National Title, your chances are better next year than this year with Taylor and Ruth of PSU graduating ...

[dsauer22 4]

 

Dlagnev, Bergman, Rowlands, Pucillo. Haines should be okay too. He's no Nevills though (amiright).

All quality guys......so how do you explain OSU's lack of development of their upper weights the last few years?

[denger 339]

 

Dlagnev, Bergman, Rowlands, Pucillo. Haines should be okay too. He's no Nevills though (amiright).

 

All quality guys......so how do you explain OSU's lack of development of their upper weights the last few years?

 

I'd say Peter Capone, the 152lb HS state champ turned ranked NCAA HWT, is development. Of course, he exited with a neck injury.

Otherwise, Campolattano, the most promising recruit, just didn't pan out. If we go back as far as when Bergman and Pucillo were in the lineup in 08, there have been a few promising local names, John Weakly & Johnny Hiles come to mind, but not another blue-chipper.

It could just be the dice at the B1G level - very few can compete there.

It could be that the opportunity to get an asswhippin from world class guys ins't as savory to some 19yr olds as we might hope.

It could less related to the wrestling program and more academic. A top 4 biggest university might not offer the right kind of learning environment for everyone, and when there's only 10 scholarships to go around, who could blame a kid for bailing on an expensive education that isn't right for him.

15-20% of all college kids drop out - including about 5% that are transferring to other schools.

There's a lot changing in a man's life from the age of 18-24 that has nothing to do with becoming an elite athlete in a sport with so few professional opportunities ahead.

[LkwdSteve 142]

Given what we have seen of tOSU's upper weights.......little to less, I can't believe Kyle Snyder's fascination with the "workout partners" and coaching he will get in Columbus!!! I see. Heflin, Courts, Camp and too many others falling short both in terms of results and attitude to justify his choosing to be a Buckeye.

 

I admit, I'm disappointed he didn't end up in Happy Valley, but damned.......just didn't make much sense.

 

 

One name doesn't belong in your grouping here.

 

Nick Heflin was a "shrug of the shoulders recruit" who has absolutely exceeded expectations (in my opnion).

[denger 339]

Courts is only a Sophomore and is ranked in AA range. I don't think he fits your description either, BDB50.

[Fishhook 142]

This is getting way carried away fellas. You are entitled to your own opinions, so I will tell you what I know. Ryan is a good coach. He is focused on the big meets, not seeding and mid-season tournaments that will be quickly forgotten about in a month. He is dealing with the exact same issues every team in Columbus is dealing with, including Urban M. as half the football team barely practiced before the bowl, as they were dealing with flus and colds. Now, on top of that, you guys surprise me, in the fact, that no one mentions in this entire thread that OSU is hosting the National duals. I'm just guessing that the team is far more focused in representing the home state well there, than in an away dual, with sick wrestlers. Losing can hurt more than help, as wrestling is a mental battle, and IMO wrestling an extra match or two during a red-shirt season is not worth losing confidence, if indeed one is battling either sickness or the mental hurdles that come with being a freshman amongst grown men. My thoughts are that Coach Ryan wants to have his best team for the Nationals.

 

Also, as far as the red-shirting deal, that is EXACTLY what PSU and Cael did before David T's freshman year. Cael also watched Junior world champion Bubba walk out his doors and pin his phenom the following year, so no one is perfect in dealing with team personalities and juggling scholarships. I recall Iowa also doing this when they had a ton of transfers in from Virginia Tech when Brands came back.

 

Furthermore, Columbus Oh has the most success, at the US Nationals, with Angel Escobedo, Tervel, Pucillo, Gavin, Reece H. Logan Steiber, Pucillo, Gavin, Bunch, Bergman and Rowlands all being great representatives for Columbus. Must be Coach Ryans fault there too. Seems to me Kyle Snyder made the RIGHT choice in going the RTC and Ohio State. Shouldn't have to remind anyone about the HWT success we have had historically. Randleman, Coleman, Rowlands, Rex Holman, JD Bergman, Pucillo. Furthermore, J Jaegger has two of the best tournaments ever, Pucillo beat Varner at NCAAs, and Logan S has won back-to-back championships. Reese H took Dake to Sudden death during the semis, then also lost narrowly to Franklin Gomez, but beat Jason Ness.

 

On top of all of that, Columbus has a history of eating wrestlers up and spitting them out. There is so much to do, that focusing on wrestling is quite difficult. Amazing wrestlers like Jim Johnson, big ten Freshman of the year, end up leaving the school.

 

Also do you guys really think Thomasello and Bo need more mat time? Really? I am of the same opinion as Jeff Jordan is: they don't need more mat time.

 

Coach Ryan will be just fine, as will the Buckeyes. Sometimes, people lose. Bitching about it looks worse than losing in itself.

[squeek 67]

Will Helfin wrestle today against Mario Gonzalez?

[Fishhook 142]

Will Helfin wrestle today against Mario Gonzalez?

 

Should be interesting. Not sure. There is a lot of sickness lately. It cost Steiner a win....possibly. As well as Tsirtsis....possibly.

 

I think wrestlers wrestling sick is a bad idea, personally. Talk about transferring germs and viruses, that is the best way to do it. OSU needs to stock up on Garlic and ginger and eat the piss out of it. It is antiviral and really really good for recovery. Surprised sometimes this part of wrestling is kind of downplayed by coaches at the start of each season. What is the point of having amazing strength, technique, or toughness in your wrestlers, if they are too sick to compete. Wrestling, more than any sport flirts with sickness, as the athletes are under-nourished, over-trained, under constant stress, and constantly touching each other. Seems loading on Vitamin C and anything to boost the immune system, would be as important as anything in the first months of the season.