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The_Education

wrestling lineages and Dan Gable

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Eastern martial artists talk about lineages. They say who they learned a martial art from, who that person learned it from, and so on. It becomes a point of pride to trace your lineage back to prominent practitioners.

 

I thought about how this might look in wrestling. Gable has coaches a lot of guys. A lot of his guys went on to become coaches themselves. I wonder how many wrestlers can trace a lineage back to Gable. It has to be tens of thousands.

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So anyone at Iowa (Zalesky and Brands), tOSU (Ryan), Oregon State (Zalesky), Wisconsin (Davis), Indiana (Goldman), Virginia Tech (Brands and Dresser), Minnesota (JRob was Gable assistant), the more recent Northwestern guys (Borschel as assistant), the more recent Edinboro guys (Moore as assistant), Illinois (Heffernan), some recent Cal Poly guys (Perry as assistant), recent Michigan guys (Pritzlaff as assistant), recent Cornell guys (Hahn as assistant), recent UNI guys (Schwab). That's all I've got for now.

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How are we doing this. In most sports a coaching tree comes from who was an assistant under who so Nick Saban would be a protege of Bill Belichick who in turn was a protege of Bill Parcells. So does Minnesota become part of the Gable tree because JRob was an assistant there. The implications being whether someone like Hahn is a JRob product or a Koll product.

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How are we doing this. In most sports a coaching tree comes from who was an assistant under who so Nick Saban would be a protege of Bill Belichick who in turn was a protege of Bill Parcells. So does Minnesota become part of the Gable tree because JRob was an assistant there. The implications being whether someone like Hahn is a JRob product or a Koll product.

 

learning to be a football coach takes studying and mentorship that happens as an assistant and that is different from wrestling where it is about an athletes accomplishments just look at how douglas was pushed out for a young sanderson to take the program can you image that ever happening in football how often do we look for a coach that can get on the mat with his guys that is about where they wrestled

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learning to be a football coach takes studying and mentorship that happens as an assistant and that is different from wrestling where it is about an athletes accomplishments just look at how douglas was pushed out for a young sanderson to take the program can you image that ever happening in football how often do we look for a coach that can get on the mat with his guys that is about where they wrestled

 

----------------

 

Capitalization. Punctuation.

 

So many former college wrestlers who must have spent too much time on the mat and not enough time in classes.

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How are we doing this. In most sports a coaching tree comes from who was an assistant under who so Nick Saban would be a protege of Bill Belichick who in turn was a protege of Bill Parcells. So does Minnesota become part of the Gable tree because JRob was an assistant there. The implications being whether someone like Hahn is a JRob product or a Koll product.

For the one linked by Tony, there's also a link that describes their methodology.

 

Thanks for posting, Tony - very interesting.

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How are we doing this. In most sports a coaching tree comes from who was an assistant under who so Nick Saban would be a protege of Bill Belichick who in turn was a protege of Bill Parcells. So does Minnesota become part of the Gable tree because JRob was an assistant there. The implications being whether someone like Hahn is a JRob product or a Koll product.

 

learning to be a football coach takes studying and mentorship that happens as an assistant and that is different from wrestling where it is about an athletes accomplishments just look at how douglas was pushed out for a young sanderson to take the program can you image that ever happening in football how often do we look for a coach that can get on the mat with his guys that is about where they wrestled

 

Assuming that we're taking about who you wrestled under, how do we deal with assistants who are doing the scrapping with the wrestlers. Does Mitchell Port trace himself back to Gable because he drills with Cliff Moore, and if so, how far do we take that. Does Bobby Telford have a JRob connection now because he works with Ben Berhow but Ramos doesn't because Berhow only works with the upperweights.

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I would be interested in whether Gable would say his "lineage" comes through Nick or Siddens.

 

I was at ISU right before Dan got there -- and frankly, Nick didn't do a lot of coaching, IMO.

 

He did recruit some great wrestlers during that period.

 

Every time I've heard Gable talk about it, he's said he didn't need a coach -- I think especially in college. I take his word about that.

 

When we used to wrestle in Waterloo, it was pretty informal -- you just grabbed someone and worked out. We didn't need a lot of coaching -- and we could go for hours wrestling.

 

As I mentioned above, I think Dan's lineage went much more through Siddens, as Siddens was his mentor during a time Dan needed him most -- and Siddens was very subtle in his ability to help and guide his wresters.

 

Maybe Dan would give Nick more credit than I think he would.

 

I'm kind of biased, though, as virtually everybody knows.

 

Best -

 

DA

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I would be interested in whether Gable would say his "lineage" comes through Nick or Siddens.

 

I was at ISU right before Dan got there -- and frankly, Nick didn't do a lot of coaching, IMO.

 

He did recruit some great wrestlers during that period.

 

Every time I've heard Gable talk about it, he's said he didn't need a coach -- I think especially in college. I take his word about that.

 

When we used to wrestle in Waterloo, it was pretty informal -- you just grabbed someone and worked out. We didn't need a lot of coaching -- and we could go for hours wrestling.

 

As I mentioned above, I think Dan's lineage went much more through Siddens, as Siddens was his mentor during a time Dan needed him most -- and Siddens was very subtle in his ability to help and guide his wresters.

 

Maybe Dan would give Nick more credit than I think he would.

 

I'm kind of biased, though, as virtually everybody knows.

 

Best -

 

DA

 

I'm of the opinion that the "lineage" starts with Dave McCuskey and includes not just to Siddens but to Bill Koll at PSU, Gerry Leeman at Lehigh and Gary Kurdelmeier at Iowa. I am fascinated by the immediate post-WWII era in wrestling and McCuskey and Paul Scott at Cornell College certainly were major influences on the direction the sport took. I don't know that I've ever seen anyone do a complete Gallagher "tree" the way some have done for Gable. I would love to see it.

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Gallagher coached Rex Peery, Cliff Keen (Paul Keen wasn't on the team, but learned his wrestling from Gallagher), Joe McDaniel was at Syracuse at one time. Ray Swartz long time Navy coach was originally from Oklahoma, he hired Stanley Henson 3-time champ for Gallagher as his assistant, and got an academy appointment for Stanley's brother Josh (1952 bronze medalist). I'm guessing Swartz was coached by Gallagher.

John Devine wrestled for Gallagher and coached at Perry Oklahoma for several decades. He coached Jack Van Bebber 3-time champ Olympic gold medalist in 1932, and Danny Hodge 3-time champ 1956 Silver medalist. Devine and Art Griffith had a strong difference of opinion on wrestling style. Griffith wanted some Perry wreatlers, but told Devine they'd need to change their style of wrestling. Devine told him there wasn't anything wrong with their style of wrestling.

 

According to Myron Roderick, Griffith believed strictly in counter wrestling in neutral (play the edge of the mat), ride the ankles, and don't try to pin. Devine believed in the quick pin as did Port Robertson. Perry wrestlers started going to OU, the 1957 chsmpionship team had 5 wrestlers from Perry in the starting lineup.

 

At the Kumback Lunch Cafe (owned and operated by Tony Macias 1960 AA at OU) there are wrestling pictures all over the walls. There is a picture of Port Robertson putting an OU letter sweater on John Devine ( a former OSU wrestler and graduate).

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dug up this old thread...

I just realized that these 5 Division 1 coaches come from the Carl Poff "coaching tree" as his former wrestlers

 

Scott Goodale - Rutgers
Mike Rogers - F&M
Cary Kolat - Campbell
Keith Ferraro - Clarion
Ben Stehura - Cleveland State

 

I know Poff is a PA legend but not that familiar with his coaching philosophy - still pretty impressive to have 5 of his wrestlers coaching D1 programs.  Goodale and Kolat have done great jobs and Rogers probably has the toughest job in D1 given F&M's unique situation.  You guys more familiar with Poff see any coaching similarities with his former wrestlers?

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