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SetonHallPirate

Reimagining NCAA wrestling...

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If I'm not mistaken, a serious problem for D1 wrestling is to support and maintain those programs that are underfunded/do not have supportive AD offices/have difficulty recruiting against the powerhouses/lack adequate fan support and attendance.

This plan, which would send some 50 teams looking to fill up schedules during the month between Feb. 8 and the conference meets of Mar. 4-5, seems to me completely wrong-headed and counter-productive.

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yes, awesome. more duals. sell it to cable television and watch the bucks come rolling in. it subtracts nothing from the ncaa tournament (or the holiday tournaments) that we all love, yet is also adds a tremendous amount of intrigue and excitement to the season.

 

maybe compress the time frame a little more. dont know how that works out logistically, though.

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yes, awesome. more duals. sell it to cable television and watch the bucks come rolling in. it subtracts nothing from the ncaa tournament (or the holiday tournaments) that we all love, yet is also adds a tremendous amount of intrigue and excitement to the season.

 

maybe compress the time frame a little more. dont know how that works out logistically, though.

That's the problem...it doesn't.

 

When I initially floated this, it had the Dual Final Four in the weekend between the qualifiers and traditional Nationals, which would have condensed things by a week, and the coaches I had talked to about this specifically said that was a no-go, that they wanted the weekend between qualifiers and traditional Nationals free.

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maybe compress the time frame a little more. dont know how that works out logistically, though.

 

agree - the biggest downside I see with this proposal is it takes up most of the entire month of February, leaving a big empty space with no scheduled competition for the teams that don't advance. I do like the concept generally, though.

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hmm... then maybe take out some steps? select the top 16 teams without the conference dual tournies, go from 16 to 4 in one weekend at 4 top seeded home sites and then the semis finals and 3rd place at a neutral site the next weekend? then only award points to the teams 1-8?

 

shorten everything to 2 weekends. then maybe some money raised could be distributed the non qualifying teams to pay travel expenses for newly schedule duals in those 2 weeks?

 

just ideas. not thinking too deep on it.

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hmm... then maybe take out some steps? select the top 16 teams without the conference dual tournies, go from 16 to 4 in one weekend at 4 top seeded home sites and then the semis finals and 3rd place at a neutral site the next weekend? then only award points to the teams 1-8?

 

shorten everything to 2 weekends. then maybe some money raised could be distributed the non qualifying teams to pay travel expenses for newly schedule duals in those 2 weeks?

 

just ideas. not thinking too deep on it.

Keep in mind that the conference dual tournaments would simply be an option for the conferences to use to determine their automatic qualifier, not a requirement.

 

As far as using 16 teams and not 24, I just don't feel like 16 teams is enough, and further, the home-and-away first three rounds is crucial to all of this, and that simply cannot be done in two weekends, even with 16 teams.

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i must be missing or misunderstanding the home and away component. from the example you give it looks like a single elimination knockout tournament with home mats for the higher seeds until the semis. what did i miss?

Absolutely nothing. But with eight teams (the eight second-round hosts) getting first-round byes, those hosts for the second round are set in stone before the first round begins. If we went from 16 to 4 (or 32 to 8) that first weekend, the hosts would literally be planning for a second-round matchup on about 36 hours notice, not to mention flights (because of the way group plane tickets work, all that would need to happen under my proposal is changing names on already-purchased tickets) and other logistics would make that a non-starter.

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doesnt that narrow travel planning window occur in the example you lay out as well? the 2/20/16 quarterfinal locations aren't known until the end of the matches on 2/14/16, no? how would you ever get around that issue?

 

sorry if im still missing something, i feel like i must be confusing something.

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doesnt that narrow travel planning window occur in the example you lay out as well? the 2/20/16 quarterfinal locations aren't known until the end of the matches on 2/14/16, no? how would you ever get around that issue?

 

sorry if im still missing something, i feel like i must be confusing something.

It's much easier to deal with having five days between the two rounds, than roughly 40 hours...that's a scenario the NCAA deals with all the time in other sports (just to name a few, men's soccer, baseball, and softball), whereas just a two-night turnaround is probably a bridge too far for the NCAA to deal with in that regard.

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ah, ok, i think i gotcha now, thanks.

 

then maybe make the top 8 at a neutral site? 24>16 Friday home matches. 16>8 Sunday home matches, all predetermined sites. then next week, friday saturday sunday, top 8 at a neutral location. have full consolation rounds to get all 8 teams ranked and so no one is sitting around waiting for a flight home. extra points at NCAAs for top 16 teams, plus the top 8 get bonus points based on finish.

 

i agree that getting more home matches is important but i would think taking up as few weeks as possible would be as well. i dunno tho, maybe its not. in general i am in favor for more radical changes to the wrestling schedule to get more marquee dual meets. i think that should be a major priority for top flight NCAA wrestling and the change will necessarily come with compromises made somewhere.

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ah, ok, i think i gotcha now, thanks.

 

then maybe make the top 8 at a neutral site? 24>16 Friday home matches. 16>8 Sunday home matches, all predetermined sites. then next week, friday saturday sunday, top 8 at a neutral location. have full consolation rounds to get all 8 teams ranked and so no one is sitting around waiting for a flight home. extra points at NCAAs for top 16 teams, plus the top 8 get bonus points based on finish.

 

i agree that getting more home matches is important but i would think taking up as few weeks as possible would be as well. i dunno tho, maybe its not. in general i am in favor for more radical changes to the wrestling schedule to get more marquee dual meets. i think that should be a major priority for top flight NCAA wrestling and the change will necessarily come with compromises made somewhere.

Workable, but I really don't think that would do anything for the calendar. I don't think those top eight would take kindly to having three straight days of weigh-ins (albeit with progressive allowances) just the week before national qualifiers, and having the week off in-between means you're taking up the same amount of time as I would be.

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Was at the Mulit-Divisional National Duals this weekend. Looked like about 2000 fans in attendance. Very exciting event with teams getting after it. It is different then the individual tourney, but equally exciting. It is evident that it is very meaningful to those teams. I saw witnessed several occasions where a wrestler didn't get pinned or teched saving bonus points and his team mates and coaches congratulated him. Very different!!!

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Workable, but I really don't think that would do anything for the calendar. I don't think those top eight would take kindly to having three straight days of weigh-ins (albeit with progressive allowances) just the week before national qualifiers, and having the week off in-between means you're taking up the same amount of time as I would be.

 

instead of starting at Feb 12 it would start a week later on Feb 19 and finish the same time. all the sites would be determined once the selection and seeding is done on the monday before the 12th. so i think it would shave a week off of the entire event. and you could hold the final 8 dual tournament over 2 days, thats not a problem. its 3-4 matches per team max.

 

and its just a suggestion to mollify the concerns about length of the process. option 1) is over 3 weeks but has more home meets. option 2) is over 2 weeks but has less home meets. do you think the coaches would have a preference? im certainly AOK with option #1!

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If this were to have any chance of success the sites for matches needs to be set FAR in advance so fans could make plans to attend as well as venues having time to market the meets.. Otherwise I see nearly empty arenas.

 

unfortunately i dont think you can get more than a week, 2 weeks MAX, of advance planning for at least the first stage.

 

but the other thing to consider is the TV package this would create. the North American sporting world goes through a lull in February following the Super Bowl. Im not saying this would instantly be the next March Madness but a big event in February is ideally timed. i would try really hard to get this onto as many cable boxes as possible and promote the crap out of it, then hopefully see that investment pay off as the event grows. the bigger the broadcast presence the more people will want to be at the event live.

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I think the concept is workable, except it conflicts with the district, regional dual state, and induvidual state in most of country.

 

Try making college wrestling a 2nd semester sport where you can start competing after the completion of 1st semester finals. This would preserve the Midlands and Southern Scuffle. Cliff Keen would need to have a later weekend.

 

February is in the heart of winter, you'd have too many travel problems, and wrestlers sick with flu.

 

Say we have a January-March regular season. Then Seton Hall Pirate's format in April, with the NCAA in the 1st or 2nd weekend of May before 2nd semester finals. ESPN and Fox need to fill April with sporting events after March Madness is over.

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Will they also have a Losers Tournament?

 

That is what the NIT (National Invitational Tournament) is with basketball. A place for those not good enough for the real tournament.

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Will they also have a Losers Tournament?

 

That is what the NIT (National Invitational Tournament) is with basketball. A place for those not good enough for the real tournament.

I suspect that there may be a place for one, however, it would be at the whim of the participating schools. Some coaches may choose to send their wrestlers to opens (or host their own), some may want to wrestle some additional duals, and some may simply want to rest their wrestlers during that time frame.

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thinking outta the box..... have the individual tourney say right after the scuffle. Then go into a dual season and then a dual tourney. You would have the advantage of selling/marketing the NCAA champions and place winners from the individual tourney to draw fans.

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It appears to me you are forgetting these are STUDENT/athletes. That is a tremendous amount of travel and high performance wrestling condensed into a short amount of time. There is a reason ADs don't schedule MN, C, IA, OSU, PSU and Oregon St. back to back over a 4 week period. Even though the attendance money would be better. How many of you guys actually competed at this high a level cramming that many top flight match ups into so short a time span?

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It appears to me you are forgetting these are STUDENT/athletes. That is a tremendous amount of travel and high performance wrestling condensed into a short amount of time. There is a reason ADs don't schedule MN, C, IA, OSU, PSU and Oregon St. back to back over a 4 week period. Even though the attendance money would be better. How many of you guys actually competed at this high a level cramming that many top flight match ups into so short a time span?

 

Compared to Football and the time commitments - Basketball and the time commitments, wrestling has it easy.

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