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Grappler69

Predictions for Pico at the U.S. Open

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If we had a dominate guy at 145 then I would say no. But he easily can knock off Oliver and Metcalf , our two best guys. I have seen this kid mant times over the last year and he is the best I have ever seen at this age, even better than Dave Schultz or Dan Gable. Now will he peak young, no way to tell. The US Open will be interesting.

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He has to get past both Oliver and Metcalf. Even if I can squeak by one, I doubt he'll beat both. Oliver has more skills than anyone Pico has ever wrestled before, and Metcalf keeps better position and has heavier hands than anyone he has ever wrestled. I highly doubt that Pico's handfighting and snaps can overcome Oliver's slickness and that he can out brute the Brute in the same tournament at age 17.

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let's slow down. the kid is tough but he is too liberal bringing his hands up. the older guys are going to focus on that and make him pay. i'm sure he'll adjust eventually. also, let's not forget he was a takedown away from getting teched at jrs.

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I think Pico's the second best high schooler, p4p. I have him between Snyder and Marsteller. But I'm not convinced he's better than Retherford and Tsirtsis. I don't think we even have to get into the Oliver and Metcalf discussion yet.

 

I think we need to just let this kid live his life. It's not worth hyping up a teenager. Our two best wrestlers, Burroughs and Dlagnev, were pretty much unknown while they were in high school. Dlagnev started wrestling in 10th grade and went to a D2 school, and Burroughs was only a one-time state champ whose best offers were from Indiana and Nebraska. And even his Nebraska offer had something to do with the fact he had a high school teammate there. In contrast, Schlatter and Metcalf were supposed to be guaranteed world beaters in high school, yet neither has managed to win a match at worlds.

 

Pico's chances of winning a world-level medal will have little to do with what he's shown us so far. It will have everything to do with how much he can improve. Like any teenager, Pico's chances of medaling at the senior level are slim, so let's leave it at that for now. Let's let Pico grow and develop on his own without tons of message board comments.

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I think Pico's the second best high schooler, p4p. I have him between Snyder and Marsteller. But I'm not convinced he's better than Retherford and Tsirtsis. I don't think we even have to get into the Oliver and Metcalf discussion yet.

 

I think we need to just let this kid live his life. It's not worth hyping up a teenager. Our two best wrestlers, Burroughs and Dlagnev, were pretty much unknown while they were in high school. Dlagnev started wrestling in 10th grade and went to a D2 school, and Burroughs was only a one-time state champ whose best offers were from Indiana and Nebraska. And even his Nebraska offer had something to do with the fact he had a high school teammate there. In contrast, Schlatter and Metcalf were supposed to be guaranteed world beaters in high school, yet neither has managed to win a match at worlds.

 

Pico's chances of winning a world-level medal will have little to do with what he's shown us so far. It will have everything to do with how much he can improve. Like any teenager, Pico's chances of medaling at the senior level are slim, so let's leave it at that for now. Let's let Pico grow and develop on his own without tons of message board comments.

 

well said!

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If we had a dominate guy at 145 then I would say no. But he easily can knock off Oliver and Metcalf , our two best guys. I have seen this kid mant times over the last year and he is the best I have ever seen at this age, even better than Dave Schultz or Dan Gable. Now will he peak young, no way to tell. The US Open will be interesting.

How has he done at Tblisi? Undefeated through four years of HS (and now won't attempt)?

I don't see the evidence.

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I think Pico's the second best high schooler, p4p. I have him between Snyder and Marsteller. But I'm not convinced he's better than Retherford and Tsirtsis. I don't think we even have to get into the Oliver and Metcalf discussion yet.

 

I think we need to just let this kid live his life. It's not worth hyping up a teenager. Our two best wrestlers, Burroughs and Dlagnev, were pretty much unknown while they were in high school. Dlagnev started wrestling in 10th grade and went to a D2 school, and Burroughs was only a one-time state champ whose best offers were from Indiana and Nebraska. And even his Nebraska offer had something to do with the fact he had a high school teammate there. In contrast, Schlatter and Metcalf were supposed to be guaranteed world beaters in high school, yet neither has managed to win a match at worlds.

 

Pico's chances of winning a world-level medal will have little to do with what he's shown us so far. It will have everything to do with how much he can improve. Like any teenager, Pico's chances of medaling at the senior level are slim, so let's leave it at that for now. Let's let Pico grow and develop on his own without tons of message board comments.

Too late...

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I think Pico's the second best high schooler, p4p. I have him between Snyder and Marsteller. But I'm not convinced he's better than Retherford and Tsirtsis. I don't think we even have to get into the Oliver and Metcalf discussion yet.

 

I think we need to just let this kid live his life. It's not worth hyping up a teenager. Our two best wrestlers, Burroughs and Dlagnev, were pretty much unknown while they were in high school. Dlagnev started wrestling in 10th grade and went to a D2 school, and Burroughs was only a one-time state champ whose best offers were from Indiana and Nebraska. And even his Nebraska offer had something to do with the fact he had a high school teammate there. In contrast, Schlatter and Metcalf were supposed to be guaranteed world beaters in high school, yet neither has managed to win a match at worlds.

 

Pico's chances of winning a world-level medal will have little to do with what he's shown us so far. It will have everything to do with how much he can improve. Like any teenager, Pico's chances of medaling at the senior level are slim, so let's leave it at that for now. Let's let Pico grow and develop on his own without tons of message board comments.

 

Good point, but let's not treat exceptions(JB and Dlagnev) as rules, and vice-versa. It think some speculation is healthy - that's the whole point of a forum, and Pico is one of the more exciting things to happen in wrestling recently. Like I said, some speculation is healthy, especially considering the fact that any claims of his potential success are not baseless -- he's proved he can beat international guys.

 

Let's just avoid the stupid, ranty, personal attacks that can evolve from such debates..

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All on here saying tone down the messgage board comments are nuts. That is exactly what the heck is wrong with our stone age sport. We need some hype and some life. Pico so far in the MMA and wrestling world is generating hype. We need that-it is not rocket science that hype generates $$$. What is wrong with us wrestling fans??? We will see what Pico can do at the Open. I am very disapointed he didn't attend Yarigan-we would have know right off tht bat where he was after that tourny.

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Similar to the Cejudo plan when he decided to forgo college, I'm sure the Pico plan is to focus on what is needed to be properly prepared for the 2016 Olympic Team Trials. Thus, the first few showing at Senior level national or major world events may not be podium material quite yet. And I would say people are over reaching if they judging the this whole "experiment" on the outcome of this first U.S. Open. Given the right draw he definitely should be able to move up the depth chart some though. Next, year will be more telling of what his chances are come 2016.

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I agree with Mad MArdigan. There is a HUGE change that happens to athletes right around the age of 18-19. For physiological and psychological reasons, they really start putting things together around that age. Basing his future on the next US Open would be foolish. Like I said, I would be surprised if a few guys didnt tech him at this tournament. Give him 2-3 years and its going to be a much different story.

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Oliver will tech Pico if they meet at the 2014 US Open at 65kg. Any takers on a sig bet?

 

Granby, I'm an Oliver fan, but I don't see what gives you so much confidence in him in Sr Freestyle. He has done "pretty good" so far but has not made a US team and in fact got beat pretty bad by Metcalf in team trials last year. He also lost in the US Open finals to Russell, right?

 

I want to believe he our future at this weight, but I'm not sold on it. Do you feel differently? Why?

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Rex Holman:

 

Rex Holman

 

The question to ask is to what end. He has definite goals of becoming an Olympic Champ and UFC Champ. He is an outlier, way out ahead of the pack and likely to maintain his relative competitive advantage.

 

He seems extremely mature and aware. He has already made a decision that college and high school wrestling aren't the best way to accomplish his end goals. Olympic Champion and UFC Champion at an early age in the most efficient way possible.

 

Smart move. Athletes have a limited window of opportunity in which to maximize their potential and earn money in their sport. We cannot relate as it is a relatively new paradigm of which athletes pursue.

 

Foregoing college wrestling to pursue international style has been around. i.e. Dennis Hall, Harry Lester, Henry Cejudo. Going to college and wrestling folkstyle while earning a degree is conventional and the path that most will take.

 

The newest wrinkle is the contingent and further goal of becoming UFC champion. If he transitions early (23) while having most of his skillsets in place. It is highly likely that he could become champion of that organization in short order.

 

The youngest US world champions are 21. I could see Pico win at 20-21 y/o. Follow with an Olympic championship at 23 and then take on a new challenge.

 

I like his words and actions because he is staying true to wrestling and potentially winning its' highest honor and then transitioning into a new challenge of which wrestlers pride themselves in being the backbone of the UFC.

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Oliver will tech Pico if they meet at the 2014 US Open at 65kg. Any takers on a sig bet?

 

I had to bend several rules and laws of nature to get my signature LOL

Herman would be proud.

 

He should have kept his arm inside the bus on that field trip.

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Oliver will tech Pico if they meet at the 2014 US Open at 65kg. Any takers on a sig bet?

 

Granby, I'm an Oliver fan, but I don't see what gives you so much confidence in him in Sr Freestyle. He has done "pretty good" so far but has not made a US team and in fact got beat pretty bad by Metcalf in team trials last year. He also lost in the US Open finals to Russell, right?

 

I want to believe he our future at this weight, but I'm not sold on it. Do you feel differently? Why?

 

I just want to say that picking Metcalf or Oliver is very tough for me because I have huge man crushes on both of them. They do very different things, but both do them well. That being said,

 

1) I believe that Oliver has a higher skill ceiling for offensive scoring on the Senior Freestyle circuit than Metcalf or the rest of the 66kg crowd. After a year or two more of development, he'll polish up the vast array of attacks that he employed in the NCAA to be effective on the world stage. One of the greatest technicians to have graced the US taught him how to be a great technician. Metcalf may have pushed Oliver around at the World Team Trials with his heavy hands and high pace, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that Oliver still has a lot of room to grow, while Metcalf is pretty close to his peak form. In a year or two, Oliver's offense will be too clean for Metcalf to brute through.

 

2) Oliver v Russell was under the old rules, so I don't put much stock in those results. Oliver beat Metcalf under the ball grab rules on a controversial call, then Metcalf hammered Oliver and Russel at the Trials under the 7pt tech rules. The rubber will meet the road if Oliver sees Russell this year.

 

3) Oliver v Pico this year will be a bloodbath. Pico is a boy. He's a very skilled boy that stands head and shoulders above the crowd, but you cannot discount the advantage that Oliver has in physical development, experience and top tier coaching. 2016 may be a different story, but Pico cannot hang with the big boys at least for right now.

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I wouldn't be surprised at all if Pico beat Oliver, Metcalf and Russell at the Open/Trials. He is that good, despite many not wanting to give him the credit he deserves (note, I said "many" - not "all"). He absolutely mauled his Sr. Russian opponent, who I believe barely lost to Russell at the very end of the match. How people can look at that result and say that Pico will get manhandled by the other three is ridiculous.

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