Flo Will Air All Star Classic To Tech Wave Subscribers

[Bucksman 0]

If it's an evening, FOX is not an option, they have college football inventory contractually locked in.

 

FX has an early afternoon game, and then either they or FOX have a mid/ate afternoon game.

 

Putting it on the Fox RSN's (i.e. Fox Sports Ohio, Fox Sports Midwest, etc - which is what Fox College Sports works off of) is not viable, as most RSN's have pre-existing program arrangements on Saturday's ... whether it's cfb or the NBA.

 

I don't know where FX is inventory wise outside of cfb on a Saturday, nor do I with Spike.

 

That's not withstanding cost issues.

[bigrig 0]

IF you sign up for their $20 monthly plan, does that entitle you to the rest of that calendar month or 30 days from the time you signed up?

 

Is their streaming clear, reliable and able to handle high traffic?

[Mat_Mopper 0]

I'll say this all at the risk of sounding like another whiny fan.

 

This is a clever promotion by Flo to get more people on Technique Wave- I will not be one of them.

 

 

I respect Flo's right to pursue a membership bump by featuring an event like this. I just dislike how NWCA has sold off the broadcast but probably moreso any responsibility (re: blame) for running it themselves and ahving the stream be terrible. They recognized their position and made a quick hot potato move in the 11th hour.

 

Part of the NWCA mission is to grow the sport of wrestling, and it baffles me how this mission is being pursued by having the webstream available. I am an avid wrestling fan, but as I no longer coach, compete- I'm not going to purchase The Wave. I've brought a lot of non-wrestling friends into the sport, and they have taken to avid fandom. And these are guys that never wrestled! (NWCA, these are "the guys", marginal fans who can help grow the sport, let them watch it!)

 

It speaks volumes that every year the issue of an NWCA webstream (and its quality) during October, as if this event springs up unbeknownst to its organizers. So the scrambling you see now will be by the NWCA, and many fans who don't want to pay for a year of Technique wave (but would have been happy to lay down 19.95 for PPV stream, even if it had to be pre-ordered). The scrambling many of us won't see is Taylor vs. Dake.

[bigrig 0]

and many fans who don't want to pay for a year of Technique wave (but would have been happy to lay down 19.95 for PPV stream, even if it had to be pre-ordered). The scrambling many of us won't see is Taylor vs. Dake.

 

You can buy a 30 day subscription for $20. There is a also a free 7 days pass although I am not sure if the free pass gets you that event.

[JasonBryant 2,058]

Here's what I don't get ...

 

In the past, people have clamored for Flo to get the rights to webcast some of the bigger events, yet, when they finally get the ability or opportunity rather to do something, it's IMMEDIATELY met with resistance because now you have to pay. I think people believed Flo would do this free of charge, when if contracted to do the stream, Flo has every right to charge. Using Technique Wave subscriptions wouldn't have been the way I did it, but it's fully their decision.

 

In the past, the NWCA has used LiveSportsVideo and other outlets. Some worked with PPV, some didn't.

 

I disagree with Mat Mopper mightily when he/she believes this was an 11th hour decision. The agreement might not have been finalized until recently, but I know there were discussions LONG before these threads surfaced on this message board. Having worked there for three years, I know this was NOT a hot potato move and I know how drawn out of a process things can actually be before pen is put to paper. I'm sure Flo was all over this for weeks before these threads surfaced and before their announcement.

 

So which is it? One thread was asking for PPV (which I in theory, don't agree with, but it's fully within the rights of the contracted party) or one now preemtively blaming the NWCA for something they will actually have no control over - the technical side of the webcast. It's like we're letting failure be allowed in advance from one party, waiting to blame another for using said party.

 

I've only seen Flo have one bad webcast in the last three years, the other 25-30 I've watched have been fine. I think from a technical side, they'll be fine.

 

So why blame the NWCA in advance? If Flo screws the pooch, they should be accountable, just like LSV should have been for their screw ups over the years.

 

If Flo does a great job, then they should be accountable in the same way.

 

Let's not pick and choose who to blame when things haven't even started.

[LordNelson 552]

This topic cuts to the heart of why Wrestling will never get the "recognition" ad hominem fans complain about that other sports get.

 

They complain about basketball etc. but don't realize that fans of these sports have no problem shelling out the bucks to support the game.

 

They go to a college tournament and complain about the price.

They won't travel more than once a year.

 

They want everything for free.

When it is free, they don't show up.

 

Ridiculous.

[wiedsworld 14]

Jason, you state you would not have used tech wave, but then you also point out that you don't necessarily agree with PPV. What other options are there besides a free webcast?

[headshuck 2,586]

Is there a reason the method of payment was left cloudy? Maybe they could say "fee TBD."

[headshuck 2,586]

Another observation... It would be nice to see Flo representation on these here message boards. I welcome any growing venture adding value.

[JasonBryant 2,058]

One of the main reasons I don't like pay-per-view is the image it portrays. We're seeing that here right now. Imagine what the reaction would be if USA Wrestling would have charged folks to watch Fargo? We would have never heard the end of it in how USAW was out to gouge its members or forcing people to pay when putting an event where people couldn't attend.

 

Instead, we had to reach out to find a webcast sponsor to make it free for viewers with CageFighter. What we got from them in an upfront, branded sponsorship, was a better take than what I believe we would have gotten from PPV.

 

More or less, it's the fan reaction that prevented me from instituting PPV at USAW events. Sure, the idea that we COULD have 1,000 people paying five bucks a pop would seem to be cost-effective, but as I said, I've found that PPV gets you maybe 200 paying viewers (of say the 3,000 watching at one time during fargo). You severely limit your influx of money. Mainly because each host (youtube, ustream, livestream) would want their cut. So instead of getting the $5, you'd get $2.50. Pricepoints also vary. What dictates free for one group (Say women's freestyle) and paid for another (men's freestyle)?

 

From where I sat with USAW and the last three years of webcasts (with THOUSANDS of live hours) was we wanted to promote our product without having to add another level of manpower. It was already a stretch for one-two people to manage a 4-mat operation. We had five people helping with Fargo last year in an 18-mat operation.

 

Then there's the issue at larger events of people paying to watch their kid and their kid not showing up on one of the streamed mats. Cost is always a concern. Single mat events aren't as big of a deal.

 

Another issue I have with PPV is customer service. Inevitably, there will be someone somewhere who can't get the feed and will complain and demand a refund. If it's free, there's not much in the way for people to complain about not getting a feed. It's not like their losing money on the deal.

 

As we've seen in the past with LSV, some of their events simply tanked and they ended up getting overwhelmed with requests. That wasn't something I was interested in spending my time doing.

 

I subscribe to CBS for the all-sports package, so if I can't get an event, I don't really fret, because I know I'll get more events to more than make up for it.

 

I think if you MUST go with PPV, then it should be event specific. I don't subscribe to Flo's technique wave or FloInsider, since I'm essentially in the same realm when it comes to "insider" type of information. But I would be interested in paying to watch this since I can't make the trip this year, but Tech wave isn't something I'm interested in. I think some fall in the same category.

 

In cases like this, perhaps the contracted party (Flo) might not have enough lead time to pitch a two-hour webcast sponsorship. But I can't speak for them, it's their business, so I can't sit here and preach about what I think is right or wrong. They've got the responsibility now to handle the stream (just like LSV in the past and FoxSportsArizona.com last year).

 

In short, my main argument against PPV is portrayed in this thread, fan response. I've always tried to present the news or webcasts in a manner the fans want, because I put myself in their place, as a fan, here's what I'd want to see.

 

It's a catch 22 type of thing with the web. In Flo's case, i think their big live duals series has enough merit to get a sponsorship to cover their costs to make it free based on their track record of BLD success. Same with USAW.

 

The issue is getting wrestling companies or non-wrestling sponsors to see the ROI as positive. No one wants to lose money. I think the potential advertisers would rather not risk a poor ROI and let the hosts lose their butts instead.

 

I'm not against PPV as a viewer, but I know from a USAW standpoint, there would have been a LOT of backlash, since people will always want to criticize USAW for something money related. It would have opened the door for a lot of shots as I stated early on in this thread.

 

Not trying to prop myself up here, but when partnered with WVS with their equipment, no one did more live streaming of wrestling in the last three years than USAW, and it was all free, but it was ALL at a loss (the cost of travel, lodging).

 

Rambling now ...

[bigrig 0]

Rambling now ...

 

Jason, we just want it to work. If that means we have to pay, fine. If sponsors can cover costs, even better. We just want it to work.

 

Why can't you (and FLO) get that? Why can't we get involved to test the streaming BEFORE the event? And if there are costs associated with pre-event testing, let me know how much it is. I'll see how much I can cover.

 

I know you are not involved in this particular event anymore, but I also believe you can probably reach out to the right people to make this happen.

[JasonBryant 2,058]

Rambling now ...

 

Jason, we just want it to work. If that means we have to pay, fine. If sponsors can cover costs, even better. We just want it to work.

 

Why can't you (and FLO) get that? Why can't we get involved to test the streaming BEFORE the event? And if there are costs associated with pre-event testing, let me know how much it is. I'll see how much I can cover.

 

I know you are not involved in this particular event anymore, but I also believe you can probably reach out to the right people to make this happen.

 

I think you're overselling the testing thing. I've been in situations where I tested a connection weeks in advance only to show up the day before and it not work. We tested it in Fargo this year two days out, one day out, and halfway through the day before we started, the whole network got cut off.

 

So many variables in play for testing. I don't think having you or anyone "test" this would solve anything. Testing is a moving target. As I said, i've been in places where i'd stream for two days and have it work and the third day, it wouldn't.

 

Testing only gets you so far in a perfect world. I'm pretty positive Flo will get it working without any such issues.

[wiedsworld 14]

Jason, thanks for posting your your thoughts about PPV. You make some valid points. I agree if it has been free and then someone wants to charge the initial backlash is bad. Good luck in your new job and your move to Mn.

[headshuck 2,586]

We need a wealthy alumni to buy us one of these:

 

[Glane18 73]

It amazes me that people will complain about anything and everything. Seriously. Flo is amazing and I am so lucky that I can sit at home in California and watch the all star meet live, learn technique and strategy from the best around the world, and watch every single match at Fargo, Russian Nationals, etc. Come on, people. THIS IS AWESOME!!

[AnklePicker 643]

I received the below this morning. If you live close and still want tickets check it out. I got my ticket this morning!

 

 

Clinicians:

Kevin Dresser - NCAA Champion

Wade Schalles - NCAA Champion & World Champion

Jim Miller -3-time All American & Head Coach Wartburg College

Steve Fraser - World Champion & Head Coach, United States Olympic Team

Kelly Ward - NCAA Champion

Kerry McCoy - NCAA Champion & World Silver Medalist and Head Coach University of Maryland

Butch Keaser - All American & World Champion

Pat Santoro - NCAA Champion & Head Coach Lehigh University

Jeff Buxton-Legendary Coach of Blair Academy, NJ

Carl Perry - NCAA Champion

Joe Russell - National Champion & Head Coach George Mason University,

Drew Pariano -3-time All American & Head Coach Northwestern University

Cliff Moore -3-time All American & NCAA Champion

Todd Beckerman -2-time All American & Assistant Coach University of Maryland

Steve Fittery - 4-time All American, 4-time Academic All-American

Mark Perry - NCAA Champion & Assistant Coach Edinboro University

Nate Carr - 3-time NCAA Champion and Olympic Silver Medalist

JJ Johnson - 2 time All-American and two-time National Club Coach of the Year

Tom Layte - NCAA Champion and Head Coach MIT

Mike Ester - Head Wrestling Coach Indiana Tech

Jeff Bowyer - All-American and retired Head Coach James Madison University

Joe Pantaleo - 2-time NCAA Finalist-University of Michigan

Patrick Timm - 2-time All-American, NSIC Coach of the Year-Northern State University

Jamill Kelly - Olympic Silver Medalist -Assistant Coach-North Carolina State

Mark Cody - 3-time All-American, NCAA Coach of the Year, Head Coach University of Oklahoma.

 

All Star Classic Tickets: Currently there will be over 200 Eagle Nest tickets available for purchase to those who attend the All Star Classic clinic. Be reminded that this Classic has been SOLD OUT for over a month now. These limited matside tickets are the only ones anyone can still buy and at $10.00 each, what a deal! They will be sold on a first come, first served basis until they are gone. Maximum one per person and the recipient must be present at time of purchase.

 

All clinic proceeds will be reinvested into the Metro DC wrestling community.

[AnklePicker 643]

The rest

 

The Greatest Clinic Ever Held

 

October 14th, 2012

 

Wrestling Fans – there is some exciting news about the All Star Classic Clinic that is occurring prior to the NWCA All Star Classic being hosted in the Washington DC area in three weeks. They have assembled the best staff of instructors and legends the world has ever seen at one time in one location! They want to make this one day event worthy of inclusion in the Guinness Book of World Records under the category of; Best Staff, Largest Clinic.

 

Following this 5-hour extravaganza, American University will host the NWCA All-Star Classic featuring many of the top ranked wrestlers in the United States today. The featured bout of the evening takes place between the two biggest names in the sport today – David Taylor (Penn State) vs. Kyle Dake (Cornell). Wow.

 

What: All Star Classic Wrestling Clinic . . . there’s something here for everyone!

When: Saturday, November 3rd, 2012

Where: The Landon School, 6131 Wilson Road, Bethesda, MD 20817

Registration: 11:00am

Fee: $30.00

Clinic Times: 12:00 Noon – 5:00pm

Pre-Registration and Information: gwwbn.org

[Tofurky 611]

I received the below this morning. If you live close and still want tickets check it out. I got my ticket this morning!

 

 

Clinicians:

Kevin Dresser - NCAA Champion

Wade Schalles - NCAA Champion & World Champion

Jim Miller -3-time All American & Head Coach Wartburg College

Steve Fraser - World Champion & Head Coach, United States Olympic Team

Kelly Ward - NCAA Champion

Kerry McCoy - NCAA Champion & World Silver Medalist and Head Coach University of Maryland

Butch Keaser - All American & World Champion

Pat Santoro - NCAA Champion & Head Coach Lehigh University

Jeff Buxton-Legendary Coach of Blair Academy, NJ

Carl Perry - NCAA Champion

Joe Russell - National Champion & Head Coach George Mason University,

Drew Pariano -3-time All American & Head Coach Northwestern University

Cliff Moore -3-time All American & NCAA Champion

Todd Beckerman -2-time All American & Assistant Coach University of Maryland

Steve Fittery - 4-time All American, 4-time Academic All-American

Mark Perry - NCAA Champion & Assistant Coach Edinboro University

Nate Carr - 3-time NCAA Champion and Olympic Silver Medalist

JJ Johnson - 2 time All-American and two-time National Club Coach of the Year

Tom Layte - NCAA Champion and Head Coach MIT

Mike Ester - Head Wrestling Coach Indiana Tech

Jeff Bowyer - All-American and retired Head Coach James Madison University

Joe Pantaleo - 2-time NCAA Finalist-University of Michigan

Patrick Timm - 2-time All-American, NSIC Coach of the Year-Northern State University

Jamill Kelly - Olympic Silver Medalist -Assistant Coach-North Carolina State

Mark Cody - 3-time All-American, NCAA Coach of the Year, Head Coach University of Oklahoma.

 

All Star Classic Tickets: Currently there will be over 200 Eagle Nest tickets available for purchase to those who attend the All Star Classic clinic. Be reminded that this Classic has been SOLD OUT for over a month now. These limited matside tickets are the only ones anyone can still buy and at $10.00 each, what a deal! They will be sold on a first come, first served basis until they are gone. Maximum one per person and the recipient must be present at time of purchase.

 

All clinic proceeds will be reinvested into the Metro DC wrestling community.

 

 

Whomever it was put in charge of writing the "bios" for these guys needs to go back and pay better attention to the "fact checking" part of their Journalism 101 class.

[socalnittany 1]

This topic cuts to the heart of why Wrestling will never get the "recognition" ad hominem fans complain about that other sports get.

 

They complain about basketball etc. but don't realize that fans of these sports have no problem shelling out the bucks to support the game.

 

They go to a college tournament and complain about the price.

They won't travel more than once a year.

 

They want everything for free.

When it is free, they don't show up.

 

Ridiculous.

Good take.

[tirapell 34]

I agree with Jason. PPV is a very difficult way to make money with webcasts. Also, there is so much resistance because the quality standards are all over the board, from barely watchable pixelated stuff to stuff you see from NBC with dynamic switching of variable bitrates all the way up to HDTV quality. There's just a lot of limiting factors.

 

I have a LOT of experience with internet broadcasts and if done right with all the variables under control (on-site bandwidth, encoding platform, delivery codec, recording setup, etc), it can be very high quality and enjoyable for the end-user. The only thing you don't have control over, unlike television, is the downstream bandwidth on the end-user connection. For TV, this is a uniform standard. For the Internet, you could have anything from 300kbps to 100Mbps, the equivalent of having a straw-sized data tube or a firehose-sized tube for receiving the feed. This is where most of the problems occur and people don't realize that their connection is actually the issue, not anything on the broacasters side.

 

The only part that irks me is people demanding that everything should be free in the "best interest" of wrestling. This couldn't be further from the truth.

 

My favorite type of PPV is the one that charges maybe $0.99, just to get rid of the freeloaders and force people to make a concious decision on how important it is to them to watch. If you can't fork over $1, then you really aren't the type of person worth spending money on from the broadcaster's (Flo in this case) point of view.

 

Like Jason's example earlier, think about the cost difference between 200 and 3,000 viewers. If the broadcaster's costs are $0.50/user for the All-Star meet, that's the difference between $100 and $1,500 in expense. And some expenses are fixed, meaning you can't figure out an average cost per user until you have the final number of users tallied.

 

There's a lot of decisions here on Flo's part and the over-simplifications are laughable if you know anything about trying to stream an event. Jason does, listen to him. It's not easy to do and it's even harder to make work financially. Flo has stepped out on a limb to take on this responsibility and to make it work , they had to make some decisions on how to recoup costs. Instead of applauding them for making the event available at all, the wrestling community laments them for charging anything, how they chose to charge, and even questions their loyalty to the sport. Really?

 

Focus on the fact that the event is available and if you have suggestions that make business sense (which I think people have some valid points), send them to Flo on other ways they might be able to make this work. As long as you're willing to be part of the solution and not just demand free stuff, I've never known Flo to be anti-wrestling. I think it's the best thing to happen to the sport in the last 15-20 years.

[luchador150 0]

Seeing how a lot of people get their TV and movies from the Internet, streaming on Flo is par for the course. My guess is FW still rocks a dial TV with rabbit ears, when the rest of the world just hooks their 60inch flat screen to the computer and watches in enjoyment.