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wrestlingnerd

Freshman NCAA champ contenders

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Has there ever been a season with as many legitimate freshman NCAA champ contenders? By legitimate, I mean guys who have proven in season that they can win it all, either by defeating the returning champ or the consensus #1 guy.

 

In the end, we may not see any freshman champs this year, but well into the second half of the season, we have three legitimate freshman title threats who have beaten not only the defending champ, but also other highly ranked wrestlers: Retherford, Dean, and Coon.

 

What's particularly impressive about this freshman class is that two of the three are competing in the upper weights, which are much harder for 18-19 year-olds to make an impact in. Also notable is that two of the three are true freshmen. All three weights have returning champs who are likely to be in most all-time great lists, with Stieber and Ruth possibly top 15 or even 10 all-time.

 

I consider Tsirtsis to be borderline in this group, since he has not proven enough yet, but he too could win, although he has not proven that yet.

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I believe all three, Coon, Retherford, and Dean, are all true freshman as far as the NCAA is concerned.

 

Dean took a "Grey Shirt" last year at Cornell.

 

Which means the NCAA considers him a true frosh.

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I believe all three, Coon, Retherford, and Dean, are all true freshman as far as the NCAA is concerned.

 

The NCAA does look at it that way, but Dean still has two years of wrestling at the collegiate level vs. 1 year for Coon and Retherford. Since the subject of the thread is about guys doing well at the earliest possible point in time, I think a distinction can be made. He's still a great wrestler.

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I believe all three, Coon, Retherford, and Dean, are all true freshman as far as the NCAA is concerned.

 

The NCAA does look at it that way, but Dean still has two years of wrestling at the collegiate level vs. 1 year for Coon and Retherford. Since the subject of the thread is about guys doing well at the earliest possible point in time, I think a distinction can be made. He's still a great wrestler.

 

 

Why do you think this is the subject of the thread? I thought the subject of the thread was to figure out if there has ever been another season with as many legitimate freshman ncaa contenders.

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I believe all three, Coon, Retherford, and Dean, are all true freshman as far as the NCAA is concerned.

 

The NCAA does look at it that way, but Dean still has two years of wrestling at the collegiate level vs. 1 year for Coon and Retherford. Since the subject of the thread is about guys doing well at the earliest possible point in time, I think a distinction can be made. He's still a great wrestler.

 

So you are willing to concede that Kyle Dake's career is more impressive than Cael's because he never red shirted?? Ha Ha.

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To be clear, I think Tsirtsis and Cox are exceptional and very talented and have the ability to win it all with some luck and perfect peaking.

 

That said, they have not yet proven they can do it, like Retherford, Dean, and now Coon all have. Personally, I don't think any of the three will win NCAAs (I may change my mind by March if they continue to progress at their accelerated rates), but it is undeniable that all three have proven their ability to win it all.

 

The reason I am differentiating the three who have proven their ability to win by beating defending champs is that if we start to speculate as to who could win it all despite not having proven it yet, then the comparison to prior years becomes too subjective. I'm wondering if any other season had three freshmen with wins over returning NCAA champs ranked #1 before their defeat by the freshmen. I can't think of any other year where this has happened.

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To be clear, I think Tsirtsis and Cox are exceptional and very talented and have the ability to win it all with some luck and perfect peaking.

 

That said, they have not yet proven they can do it, like Retherford, Dean, and now Coon all have. Personally, I don't think any of the three will win NCAAs (I may change my mind by March if they continue to progress at their accelerated rates), but it is undeniable that all three have proven their ability to win it all.

 

The reason I am differentiating the three who have proven their ability to win by beating defending champs is that if we start to speculate as to who could win it all despite not having proven it yet, then the comparison to prior years becomes too subjective. I'm wondering if any other season had three freshmen with wins over returning NCAA champs ranked #1 before their defeat by the freshmen. I can't think of any other year where this has happened.

 

So then Bryce Busler can win it??

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So then Bryce Busler can win it??

 

Sure, he could.

 

But as I said, even he has not proven that ability as much as the three freshmen: "three legitimate freshman title threats who have beaten not only the defending champ, but also other highly ranked wrestlers".

 

Which other highly ranked wrestlers has Busler defeated?

 

Retherford beat Stieber, Mecate, and Spisak

 

Dean beat Ruth, Steinhaus

 

Coon beat Nelson, Gwiazdowski, Telford, Felix

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Please list the defending champs in the 197 weight too.

 

You need to learn to read better. First you skip the comment about beating not only the defending champ but also other highly ranked wrestlers and then you ignore the comment about beating a defending champ _OR_ the consensus #1 guy (I'll break this one down for you: does NOT need to have beaten a defending champ).

 

Thanks for your cerebral contributions to this thread.

 

Cox has not avenged his loss to Gadsen, who is not even #1, and has yet to beat Schiller, the consensus #1.

 

While he certainly has the ability to win it, as I stated, he has YET TO PROVE IT HEADS-UP like the other freshmen I listed have.

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Please list the defending champs in the 197 weight too.

 

You need to learn to read better. First you skip the comment about beating not only the defending champ but also other highly ranked wrestlers and then you ignore the comment about beating a defending champ _OR_ the consensus #1 guy (I'll break this one down for you: does NOT need to have beaten a defending champ).

 

Thanks for your cerebral contributions to this thread.

 

Cox has not avenged his loss to Gadsen, who is not even #1, and has yet to beat Schiller, the consensus #1.

 

While he certainly has the ability to win it, as I stated, he has YET TO PROVE IT HEADS-UP like the other freshmen I listed have.

 

The problem is, the original poster threw in "I consider Tsirtsis to be borderline in this group" right at the end of his original post. Tsirtsis hasn't beaten anyone close to the consensus #1.

 

I only say this because that's the reason, at least for me, that Cox was brought into the discussion.

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Wrestingnerd -

 

You title the thread Freshman NCAA champ contenders. At the end of your own post you mention T-shirts as a possibility although he doesn't meet your strict definition in the body of your note. Then you jump on others who mention possibilities. Why so touchy?

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Wrestingnerd -

 

You title the thread Freshman NCAA champ contenders. At the end of your own post you mention T-shirts as a possibility although he doesn't meet your strict definition in the body of your note. Then you jump on others who mention possibilities. Why so touchy?

 

I was using Tsirtsis as an example of a guy who I consider having the ability but not having proven it. He was a placeholder for the group that includes guys like Cox, et al.

 

I titled the thread the way I did because there's not enough room to add all the specific criteria, though I tried.

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The problem is, the original poster threw in "I consider Tsirtsis to be borderline in this group" right at the end of his original post. Tsirtsis hasn't beaten anyone close to the consensus #1.

 

I only say this because that's the reason, at least for me, that Cox was brought into the discussion.

 

I should've, and meant to, state that I consider "a guy like Tsirtsis" to be in the group. I wasn't specifically singling him out, but rather, was using him as an example of a guy that has yet to prove it on the mat to the degree the other three have but is talented enough to have a real shot. After all, he was ranked #1 or close by some at some point in the season before he lost, and I can't think of any other freshman (other than Coon and Retherford) who had that high a ranking, so I thought he was a convenient placeholder to use for other freshmen who haven't yet defeated a #1 opponent or defending champ.

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The problem is, the original poster threw in "I consider Tsirtsis to be borderline in this group" right at the end of his original post. Tsirtsis hasn't beaten anyone close to the consensus #1.

 

I only say this because that's the reason, at least for me, that Cox was brought into the discussion.

 

I should've, and meant to, state that I consider "a guy like Tsirtsis" to be in the group. I wasn't specifically singling him out, but rather, was using him as an example of a guy that has yet to prove it on the mat to the degree the other three have but is talented enough to have a real shot. After all, he was ranked #1 or close by some at some point in the season before he lost, and I can't think of any other freshman (other than Coon and Retherford) who had that high a ranking, so I thought he was a convenient placeholder to use for other freshmen who haven't yet defeated a #1 opponent or defending champ.

 

I understand what you meant to say. But your logic is still a bit flawed, as Cox has beaten higher ranked wrestlers than Tsirtsis has. Tsirtsis was ranked higher because ranking services thought more highly of him coming out of high school than they did of Cox...if you look at match results, Cox has the better resume thus far in his true freshman year.

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