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Frank_Rizzo

Grajales vs. Alton

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It was a very exciting, but terribly refereed match. I don't think this guy will get premier matches at the BIG, let alone the NCAAs. First time i can remember Grajales being in better shape than any highly ranked opponent he's faced. Grajales may finish his career with an AA, which is an admirable acheivement. However, I don't see him challenging Houdashelt or Maple.

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That ref seemed clueless, like the wwf ref who didnt realize someone snuck a folding chair into the ring. Grajales got off him and stood straight up to give alton neutral twice and he stayed in a ball and the ref wouldn't give it to him. Those should have been instant stall calls

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Not at all surprised that one of the most bizarre wrestling matches I have ever seen involved Eric Grajales. What's amazing is that Grajales was not the reason the match was bizarre.

 

To steal from another thread - if Pat Fitzgerald ever was "unanimously" the worst ref in college wrestling, he's not anymore.

 

And A. Alton - what the hell? I have never seen a D.1 wrestler that gassed. I know he's just coming off an injury but he's had some matches. And he was wrestling Grajales, not Mark Ironside. I used to think he just didn't work very hard, or that he maybe drank a little too much, but now I'm really wondering if something is really wrong with him. Lots of D.1 wrestlers dog it a bit or overindulge, and I've never seen anyone look that bad. Somebody above referenced Adam Frey and there are some similarities there. Frey would come out like a ball of fire and then just have nothing. I hope it's nothing like that.

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Grajales will AA, that's all.

That's all? That's all!?!? Could we possibly treat anything more significant with less significance? NCAA DI wrestling is as tough as it gets for folkstyle wrestling. It is the best of the best, and you say "that's it" as if it's not that big of a deal? As if calling yourself one of the top 8 in your weight class out of nearly 80 of the best guys in the entire country is no big deal? "That's all"????? Really? Wow. No wonder the mentality of so many is either win it all or go home. Sad.

 

 

Isn't it also a pretty big deal to be a top 20 D1 wrestler? Would you be in favor of giving the top 16 All American status at ncaas?

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The reffing was attrocious. How can you not award an escape when the guy jumps off, runs around front, throws his hands in the air, and stares the ref dead in the face?

 

Add to that, Alton had Grajales on his back for (I rewound and counted) 7 seconds and didnt get a nearfall.

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Two inconsistent performers with big moves in their arsenal. Both run on empty gas tanks, but have the 'potential' to beat anyone at that weight (Yes, anyone...not likely, but possible)... throw in a ref that didnt know what day it was, and you got one of the top ten most exciting/entertaining matches ever.

 

Guys on their back and no nearfall given, cutting guys and no escapes awarded, calling potentially dangerous when a guy is about to get pinned, changing your takedown call and making them re-wrestle the end of the first, and both coaching staffs wanting to strangle this guy... this was sooo fun to watch!

 

Although the wrestling wasnt on par with the greats; 'Ironside vs Kolat', 'Brands vs Prescott', etc... this was just as entertaining to watch.

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I had the match scored 15-13 Alton, before the final TD and fall by Grajales. That ref was in his own world. I understand the first no escape call, because Alton had not turned to face Grajales. However, later in that same sequence, Alton was outside of the circle facing Grajales, Grajales jumps in bounds then secures the ankles while keeping his toes in. Should have been two. Inexplicably, the ref ends up awarding Grajales an additional escape point when he goes to the scorer's table. In the 3rd, Alton elevates Grajales and clearly has back points but nothing is counted. Ref stops match due to potentially dangerous. I wonder if the ref realized he screwed up & was trying to correct the score by not calling backs? Thank goodness there was finality to the match or this could be up there with the Cory Olson debacle from a couple of years ago.

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Im surprised that cael hasnt quit on the lighter alton. He came in with such promise, the guy who could hang with kellen russell early in the year. He did that same move over and over and its been all downhill since. Failed to AA as a true freshman, had a disappointing season last year and this year will be disappointing again.

 

Brands woukd have dumped his #ss for gassing like that. Remember slator gassing like that against fanthorp? I think it was his last match and dan dennis got the slot.

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Grajales will AA, that's all.

That's all? That's all!?!? Could we possibly treat anything more significant with less significance? NCAA DI wrestling is as tough as it gets for folkstyle wrestling. It is the best of the best, and you say "that's it" as if it's not that big of a deal? As if calling yourself one of the top 8 in your weight class out of nearly 80 of the best guys in the entire country is no big deal? "That's all"????? Really? Wow. No wonder the mentality of so many is either win it all or go home. Sad.

 

 

Isn't it also a pretty big deal to be a top 20 D1 wrestler? Would you be in favor of giving the top 16 All American status at ncaas?

 

The top 8 is good enough for me. You're not one of these guys that thinks the guy that took 2nd "sucks" do you? I hate to assume, but....

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I had the match scored 15-13 Alton, before the final TD and fall by Grajales. That ref was in his own world. I understand the first no escape call, because Alton had not turned to face Grajales. However, later in that same sequence, Alton was outside of the circle facing Grajales, Grajales jumps in bounds then secures the ankles while keeping his toes in. Should have been two. Inexplicably, the ref ends up awarding Grajales an additional escape point when he goes to the scorer's table. In the 3rd, Alton elevates Grajales and clearly has back points but nothing is counted. Ref stops match due to potentially dangerous. I wonder if the ref realized he screwed up & was trying to correct the score by not calling backs? Thank goodness there was finality to the match or this could be up there with the Cory Olson debacle from a couple of years ago.

 

 

The phantom point came because it was Alton's 2nd stall warning, he didn't realize until he talked to score table.

 

Re-watch the potentially dangerous situation, Grajales' back wasn't exposed, his neck was cranked that far.

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It was only crazy because the red couldn't figure out that when two guys are completely separated that an escape should have been awarded. Grajales was robbed at least one ESC-TD (I think it may have been twice). Even Gibbons said the ref should expecting a call from Mike Allen within an hour after the dual is over.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Mike Allen would have a hard time officiating this match; middle school matches are easier to referee than that one. And just because an announcer says something doesn't mean they are correct. I actually think the official called most of it correctly. Part of being neutral is a loss of control. When the offensive wrestler stands up and the opponent doesn't face, and the offensive wrestler falls back on him, that is not 1 escape, 2 takedown. The NCAA case book even has that situation in it. If the defensive wrestler refuses to face, then stalling can be called but there wasn't a distinguished loss of control. When PSU faced, there was an escape awarded and then the takedown(s).

 

The near fall issue was simple in my view. PSU got the takedown and it looked like the official got a one count and then Mich came out of criteria so he had to stop his count. He then called potentially dangerous but imminent scoring doesn't apply here since the Mich wrestler wasn't hurt or bleeding. Since the official stopped it for PD, he couldn't award imminent points.

 

It was an ugly and confusing match but I don't think the official was near as bad as everyone is making him out to be. There are nuances in the rules and this match went deep into the rules book.

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Excuse my ignorance, i follow high school more, but have the rules changed to where the fall can happen if any part of the body is inbounds? kind of like the takedowns where both feet are out, but the wrestler's butt is still inbounds.

 

Yes, it changed this year in college to allow near fall or a fall to be awarded as long as any part of either wrestler is inbounds.

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To the number of kids nationwide who would kill for a spot on PSU, myself included, Andrew's showing was at first inspiring, than abruptly turned into a slap in the face. I still support him and the team fullheartedly, and hopefully its an issue that will be resolved sooner than later, but damn, it stung to watch that match.

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That match was as horrible as any D1 match I have ever seen (including the Alton matches from last year) out of gas or not, he gas up the fall. Grajales weight wasn't even heavy on him when he was pinned. The ref scored it a little too technical, but by the book there wasn't a loss of control, and as said earlier, Grajales back wasn't exposed in the last Alton T2. These guys have not lived up to their billing. I'm sorry to say it, but it's true. This wasn't an injury hampered loss (anyone see the Mario Gonzales match?) I am curious to what Cael was thinking putting him in the match, unless to evaluate his conditioning. Even Dylan, should have had an easier win, let ti go to overtime. Man I hate to sound like I'm bashing the twins, but c'mon we all watched the same things from them last year. Sometimes these kids are so used to being revered as untouchable and having guys run from them in high school & cadets, that when they have to step up to D1 they want no part of what it takes to get it done. If these guys get their heads in the game and conditioning in check, they can be unstoppable. Does anyone think an Alton / Green final could be possible @ 157 if they did? And 149 isn't that tough that Andrew could make some noise @ 149. These guys can be the two most exciting wrestlers out there. I hope it happens.

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... I'm sure I wasn't the only one who tuned in primarly to watch the Alton's. ...

 

I know that there are alot of posters who love to criticize the Altons'(only because they were very successful Pa wrestlers, I might add) but not only are they fun to watch, but win or lose, they seem like good kids.

 

Maybe you and the one other guy who had no interest in watching Taylor. Or Ruth. Or Retherford. But other than those guys, yeah, it was the Alton fan club channel.

 

I root for PA wrestlers, including the successful ones. But A. Alton was not "fun to watch" yesterday. More like embarrassing with all the stalling.

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Im surprised that cael hasnt quit on the lighter alton. He came in with such promise, the guy who could hang with kellen russell early in the year. He did that same move over and over and its been all downhill since. Failed to AA as a true freshman, had a disappointing season last year and this year will be disappointing again.

 

Brands woukd have dumped his #ss for gassing like that. Remember slator gassing like that against fanthorp? I think it was his last match and dan dennis got the slot.

 

A.C Slater never wrestled at Iowa. He almost did though....

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... I'm sure I wasn't the only one who tuned in primarly to watch the Alton's. ...

 

I know that there are alot of posters who love to criticize the Altons'(only because they were very successful Pa wrestlers, I might add) but not only are they fun to watch, but win or lose, they seem like good kids.

 

Maybe you and the one other guy who had no interest in watching Taylor. Or Ruth. Or Retherford. But other than those guys, yeah, it was the Alton fan club channel.

 

I root for PA wrestlers, including the successful ones. But A. Alton was not "fun to watch" yesterday. More like embarrassing with all the stalling.

 

 

Sorry, but I like a slugfest more than a snoozefest(kind of like watching Seattle vs Denver). While I love how talented they are, Ruth and Taylor are so much better than their opponents, I can't get that fired up for those matches. Alton-Grajales, now that's why I tuned it! Sorry, but that's just me. I'm also not as involved as you where I would I would get personally embarrassed with the way kids wrestle.

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Sorry, but I like a slugfest more than a snoozefest(kind of like watching Seattle vs Denver). While I love how talented they are, Ruth and Taylor are so much better than their opponents, I can't get that fired up for those matches. Alton-Grajales, now that's why I tuned it! Sorry, but that's just me. I'm also not as involved as you where I would I would get personally embarrassed with the way kids wrestle.

 

 

pennsy, while I understand this sentiment completely, we have but a handful more folk matches for two of the greatest wrestlers of our generation. They can win all the rest by 17-2 TF or with 36 second pins and I still want to watch. We won't see many who can make this look so effortless the way these two can.

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Anyone surprised that Rak defended the official. Stick with officiating Rak. You are excellent at that. Acting as an ombudsman for the officials association diminishes your reputation as an impartial rule enforcer. Grading of officials should be left to the ravening, slathering pack of avid fans, who aren't really sure what their lying eyes are seeing. That includes me, of course

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The near fall issue was simple in my view. PSU got the takedown and it looked like the official got a one count and then Mich came out of criteria so he had to stop his count. He then called potentially dangerous but imminent scoring doesn't apply here since the Mich wrestler wasn't hurt or bleeding. Since the official stopped it for PD, he couldn't award imminent points.

 

No way. That kid was on his back for 7 seconds, no question. Yes, he was moving and fighting, but Alton took him feet to back and should have gotten a count. How you could even call a potential dangerous with a move like that is beyond me other than "I f'd up, its time to do a make up call."

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Anyone surprised that Rak defended the official. Stick with officiating Rak. You are excellent at that. Acting as an ombudsman for the officials association diminishes your reputation as an impartial rule enforcer. Grading of officials should be left to the ravening, slathering pack of avid fans, who aren't really sure what their lying eyes are seeing. That includes me, of course

 

"The ravening, slathering pack of avid fans, who aren't really sure what their lying eyes are seeing." -- Sounds like the bleachers at my last match deep in PA.

 

P.S. Bonus points for using ravening correctly in a sentence - you must either play Scrabble or do the NYT crossword. :geek:

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