Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
M112

Is Iowa going to be any better in the next two years?

Recommended Posts

Looking through their line-up, who does Iowa have waiting in the wings that will elevate them again to be able to beat a team like PSU or OSU who seem to have a lot of young talent and talent waiting in the wings?

 

PSU loses Wade and Molinaro and replaces Wade with Gingrich who will, at least per his level this year, a downgrade but still placed at the Scuffle. Andrew Alton will replace Molinaro and so that shouldn't be a big drop and he has three years of eligibility left. They also have three years of Megalaudis, two more for Ruth and Taylor, three more for McIntosh, Dylan Alton, and also a tough Jimmy Gullibon coming in. They also have Matt Brown waiting in the wings who I again, as I mentinoed a whil ago now, think will be contending for a national title the second he gets into the line-up. We do lose Wright in a year though but seem to have a lot of depth in the line-up in the upper-weights to compensate as much as you can for a guy as good as Wright.

 

Iowa will lose Marion this year, have McDonough for one more after this a la Quentin Wright of PSU. They will have Ramos, Derek St. John, and a solid Heavyweight in Telford. They have Gambrall who is still up in the air if he will ever come back to form and Lofthouse who has been okay thus far and doesn't seem to show anything to indicate some type of jump. Also have a tough Evans.

 

But who is left then? It leaves a few holes just like this year and I don't see anyone who is going to fill it. I see Dziewa but don't know how good he's going to be (conflicting reports) but outside of that, I think Cory Clark is supposed to be all everything but he's not going to start for probably a year or two if he sticks around the 125/133 range and I don't know of any other immediate starter recruits.

 

I think Iowa is going to be in the same position they are now (around the top five) for the next 3-4 years unless some dramatic improvements are made by some wrestlers they have on the roster now. In the next two years they stand to lose Montell Marion (title contender for the last three years), and Matt McDonough (National Champion) and are replacing them with Dziewa next year and Cory Clark two years later. PSU, on the other hand, loses three guys (Wade, Molinaro, Wright) in the next two years, but replaces those loses with Andrew Alton, Gingrich (solid), Matt Brown, Morgan Mcintosh, and Jimmy Guillbon (a la Cory Clark for Iowa). OSU keeps a young line-up and I believe have a few recruits waiting in the wings like Chris Philips (jury still out) and Kenny Courts among others and they will simply be adding these guys to the line-up as I believe they don't lose anyone of great significance, maybe Magrum or Capone but these two aren't the heart of the line-up.

 

I think OSU and PSU will distance itself, even moreso PSU. I think they will win a national title barring any unforseen injuries every year Taylor and Ruth are in the line-up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gilman is a better prospect than clark imo.

 

Nate Skon is also coming in and will challenge Mark Ballweg and Dziewa for the spot at 141. Ballweg has AA potential right now at 141 but is stuck behind Marion. Neither Ballweg got off to a great start this year but both are really good.

 

If Carew ever gets healthy he will be a real threat at 149.

 

Grothus is a true freshman who will probably be starting next year, he has been having great results this year.

 

#5 ranked senior Sam Brooks is also coming to Iowa next year and will be a solid 184/197 lber.

 

#4 Alex Meyer also committed as did Burak who is at the OTC right now. Burak will probably start at 197 as a true freshman 2 years removed from high school. Meyer has tons of potential and will help the Hawks reload.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Don't forget Minnesota--they lose Sanders (a big one) and Sonny Yohn. Yohn will be replaced by Schiller-a real stud. with Zillerberg back at 157 and a replacement for Sanders the rest of the line up should grow---Dardanes (2) Thorn, Ness, Storely, Stienhaus & Nelson that makes for a good line up and should challange almost anyone. Penn States lineup is some thing special and will be difficult to handle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gilman is a better prospect than clark imo.

 

Nate Skon is also coming in and will challenge Mark Ballweg and Dziewa for the spot at 141. Ballweg has AA potential right now at 141 but is stuck behind Marion. Neither Ballweg got off to a great start this year but both are really good.

 

If Carew ever gets healthy he will be a real threat at 149.

 

Grothus is a true freshman who will probably be starting next year, he has been having great results this year.

 

#5 ranked senior Sam Brooks is also coming to Iowa next year and will be a solid 184/197 lber.

 

#4 Alex Meyer also committed as did Burak who is at the OTC right now. Burak will probably start at 197 as a true freshman 2 years removed from high school. Meyer has tons of potential and will help the Hawks reload.

 

See that's what I mean, most of the guys there are unproven commodities except for Dziewa and I really don't know that he is more of an All-American then any other non-starter (who has he beaten to justify that). In any event, though, at best, it will be a wash when he replaces Marion and then you have Carew who is probably done with two blown ACL's (that's what all Iowa fans seem to be saying), Nate Skon I doubt will be any better then Marion but still, he will be bumping heads at the same spot as Dziewa so it doesn't do much good for filling out 149, 197, or 184. Same comments about the Ballweg's . The one Ballweg didn't do much, the Moore's aren't either although one is still young, Telford has been okay thus far, and Carew blew out his knees. Iowa missed on a good bit of big recruits recently and I think its going to cost them in the next 3-4 years.

 

Not to start an already dead debate, but Brand's came into a situation with a ton of talent but with time a lot of them graduated so his recruiting class success because that much more important and missing on a few recruits coupled with injury seems to be taking its toll on them.

 

Evans is going to be good, Telford I think will be okay, I don't see enough now to figure him to be a perenial title threat, Ramos is very good already, and DSJ is very good, but outside of that, two top three guys and two with the potential to become that (one more than the other), I don't see much else in the cupboard for Iowa. Gambrall might regain his form might not. Carew I am pretty sure will never be the wrestler he could have been with two blown knees. DSJ is still a question mark, his injury seems really severe to be out this long and then perform as poorly as he did when he came back for the OSU dual. Lofthouse is okay and will do enough, low to mid AA. Kelly is okay, he might be solid like Lofthouse in the future but he's not even top-20 right now. Moore's aren't replicating their high school success. Ballweg's haven't done anything thus far as well as Dziewa to think they will replicate what Marion has done or even be in the same league as him. They have nobody proven at 197 or really any other weight outside of what I just mentioned.

 

On the other hand, speaking to PSU, for which I have more knowledge, they have (years left refer to years remaining after this season):

 

125 - Gullibon/Megalaudis (one proven other unproven) - 3 or 4 years left

133 - Megalaudis/Martellotti (one proven top 5-10 guy other likely top 20 or 25) - 3 or 4 years left

141 - Luke Frey (unproven) - 4 years left

149 - Andrew Alton (proven - likely national title threat next year given returners - 3 years left

157 - Dylan Alton (proven - Top 6 nationally this year) - 3 years left

165 - David Taylor - 2 years left

174 - Ed Ruth/Matt Brown - Ed Ruth absolutely proven - Matt Brown proven, Scuffle runner-up, beaten multiple top 20 guys including Storley, and two ranked 197 lbers wrestling up 23 lbs. - 2 or 3 years left

184 - Quentin Wright - 1 year left

197 - McIntosh - Top 12 as a true freshmen - 3 years left

HWT - Gingrich - Solid, Scuffle placer, likely top 20 to 25 in the country if he started today. - 2 years left

 

IOWA

 

125 - McDonough/ Corey Clark - proven - 1 year left or unproven 4 years left

133 - Ramos - proven - 2 years left

141 - Dziewa (3 or 4)/Skon (4)/Ballweg - All unproven

149 - Kelly/Carew - okay, not top 20 - Carew unproven, bad injury history

157 - DSJ (2)? - Proven but seems like severe injury issues

165 - Evans (3) - Proven

174 - Lofthouse (2) - Solid to Good - RD 12, to Mid AA

184 - Gambrall (2) - Kind of bad (this year) - could regain old form but nothing seems to indicate that yet

197 - ???

HWT - Telford (3) - Good - I see him as a multiple time AA but don't know if he will become a perennial threat for a title or not

 

Just doesn't look good future-wise. Tons of holes and ambiguity, lots of question marks about guys with injuries, freshmen, unenrolled kids (as of now), with not much constants. Definitely will be uphill for Iowa for the next few years. They are always well coached but they have missed on a lot of recruits and had some unlucky injuries which becomes a bigger problem when they lost some of the fire from the initial brands recruiting classes, not as much room for error.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's wait until after nationals this year to put Iowa in the "5-8" range. With that being said, Lofthouse, Ramos, Evans and Telford are going to do nothing but improve(not convinced about Gambrall improving no matter what weight). St. John will be 100%, and keep improving, and we have McDonough for one more year. Iowa will be fine next year with three wrestlers competing for titles (McDonough , St John, and Ramos) with probable AA's in Lofthouse, Telford, Evans, and Gambrall. I think we will be fine next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets be honest, the title is PSU's to lose for the next 3 years. After that, it will be up for grabs again. PSU is by far the most solid tournament team out there, with a lot of guys who you would be "shocked" if they don't make the finals.

 

For PSU to lose in the next 3 years it is going to take 1 of 3 things. Injuries, Substantially Poor Performance by PSU or Over Performance by someone else.

 

I just don't see how anyone competes with PSU's horses unless one of them gets hurt. Four years from now, the title is once again up for grabs. Had the VT transfers not had to sit out a year, Iowa likely would have run off 4 straight... now its PSU's turn. After that, roll the dice.

 

I'm sorry if I spoiled the next 2 seasons for you guys, maybe JB should make a rule against giving away what is going to happen next year and the year after. Should be fun to watch anyway though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get a kick out of Megaludis and Dylan Alton being proven, but Grant Gambrall and Ethen Lofthouse not being proven. If 0 time AA's, Megaludis and D. Alton are proven (and Andrew Alton), how are Gambrall, Lofthouse, and Telford not? All credentials are similar, and Gambrall's are significantly bigger. Right this instant, Mega and Alton are ranked higher than Lofthouse and Telford, but Telford and Lofthouse were, ato ne point this season, ranked much higher, including up to top 5. Lofthouse was 3rd at one point, actually, I think. How are Megaludis and Dylan Alton proven midway thru their first season, but Telford isn't? How about Lofthouse not proven but Andrew Alton is? How are any of these guys proven, but Grant Gambrall, returning to 184 where he placed 3rd last season, isn't? How is Matt Brown, second at the Scuffle, beating "multiple top 20 wrestlers" proven, but Telford, second at the Midlands and wins over top 20 wrestlers, not proven?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let's wait until after nationals this year to put Iowa in the "5-8" range. With that being said, Lofthouse, Ramos, Evans and Telford are going to do nothing but improve(not convinced about Gambrall improving no matter what weight). St. John will be 100%, and keep improving, and we have McDonough for one more year. Iowa will be fine next year with three wrestlers competing for titles (McDonough , St John, and Ramos) with probable AA's in Lofthouse, Telford, Evans, and Gambrall. I think we will be fine next year.

 

Your kind of making my point. you have four probable All-Americans next year. I don't know why you assume Lofthouse will continue to improve, he seems to have regressed if anything this year. I see Evans and Telford as having the biggest upside between the four you mentioned. You also mentioned that you are not convinced Gambrall will improve then if thats the case, how do you see him being a probable All-American?

 

PSU's back-up 174 beat a guy Gambrall lost to. Gambrall is completely out of the mix as of today, if he starts reeling off wins at 184 then that stance can change but as of right now he has had ample time to prove himself and has not.

 

Again though, who fills the void in the next two years. McDonough and Marion gone and all I see you having there points replaced with is Lofthouse (so-so this year, seems like he regressed), Gambrall (nowhere close to top 20), Telford (room to improve), and Evans (should be a contender soon).

 

That leaves you with Ramos, McDonough, and DSJ next year, and after that Ramos and DSJ with the hope that the four guys mentioned becomes elite. This also doesn't take into consideration the severity of DSJ's injury and also the fact that you don't have much waiting in the wings.

 

When Brands came over from VT they had talent upon talent in the room and really incredible depth, some weights went a few deep with All-American caliber guys. They don't have anything close to that anymore because of recruiting misses and injuries. I think they need a few years to stock up again but I don't see them doing it in the next two years. I think in 3-4 years the pendulum might swing away but I think for the immediate future it is with the younger talent and that seems to be PSU and OSU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't forget Minnesota--they lose Sanders (a big one) and Sonny Yohn. Yohn will be replaced by Schiller-a real stud. with Zillerberg back at 157 and a replacement for Sanders the rest of the line up should grow---Dardanes (2) Thorn, Ness, Storely, Stienhaus & Nelson that makes for a good line up and should challange almost anyone. Penn States lineup is some thing special and will be difficult to handle.

 

Completely forgot about them. They are definitely another very young team. What they need is for some of their guys to step up to elite status which will likely come in time. I think Storley is very tough and could be that guy. The Dardanes I could see dominating in two years, they still need to be more precise given the style they use. Steinhaus seems to be the perennial contender but comes up short and I think Ness might become special once he figures out how to incorporate some of his high risk stuff along with some more sound technique. He got dominated by strong, solid, technicians.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I get a kick out of Megaludis and Dylan Alton being proven, but Grant Gambrall and Ethen Lofthouse not being proven. If 0 time AA's, Megaludis and D. Alton are proven (and Andrew Alton), how are Gambrall, Lofthouse, and Telford not? All credentials are similar, and Gambrall's are significantly bigger. Right this instant, Mega and Alton are ranked higher than Lofthouse and Telford, but Telford and Lofthouse were, ato ne point this season, ranked much higher, including up to top 5. Lofthouse was 3rd at one point, actually, I think. How are Megaludis and Dylan Alton proven midway thru their first season, but Telford isn't? How about Lofthouse not proven but Andrew Alton is? How are any of these guys proven, but Grant Gambrall, returning to 184 where he placed 3rd last season, isn't? How is Matt Brown, second at the Scuffle, beating "multiple top 20 wrestlers" proven, but Telford, second at the Midlands and wins over top 20 wrestlers, not proven?

 

You don't read very carefully lol. When did I say Telford wasn't proven? I said he was good, and will likely be a multiple time All-American. What is suspect about him though is that he got yanked out of the line-up for Rasing. If the coaches were completely confident in him, I see him starting those matches.

 

Gambrall has been terrible and I said he has been bad this year, didn't say he hasn't accomplished anything. Metzger was a great wrestler too but he's not going to set the world on fire anymore. He has been as bad as he was good at NCAA's so I don't know that you could make a really strong argument that when he comes back next year he is going to be an anchor on the team like Matt McDonough, he hasn't been as solid as Mike Kelly this year forget McDonough.

 

Andrew Alton, next year, which I also made a point of, will be coming into a very cleared out weight class. He had a very good true freshmen year and lost in the medal round. His stiffest opposition will likely be Cole Von Ohlen. He will be a legitimate national title contender and not in the sense that everyone is, in the sense that results tend to show that he will be close to the top next year.

 

A guy like Lofthouse seems to have shown no improvement this year, watch the tape. When your looking forward, I'm saying that he likely is going to stay where he is at, just like I said in the post, RD 12 to Mid-All-American. As of right now, heading into March, he doesn't look like a world beater.

 

You referred to Megalaudis, he has been getting better each match. He has been closing the gap with the elite, losing in overtime to McDonough when people were calling for a Major, lost a close one to Perrelli who nearly Majored him earlier in the year, beat Levi Mele, and has been dominating opponents of a class he would have only beaten earlier in the year. He has done enough this year to show that he is tough and will contend. That doesn't mean a guaranteed spot on the podium, but he is tough and seems to show a lot of progression as opposed to stagnation or regress.

 

A lot of the guys from Iowa coming back aren't coming on strong right now, and don't seem like they have made much movement from last year to this year. The one example of marked improvement is Tony Ramos. But beyond that, Gambrall has gotten worse, McDonough has been McDonough (although the weight cut seems to me to have made him sluggish), Marion isn't wrestling as well as he did last year (Good W-L but just watch the matches, seems bored or tired or both), Lofthouse I think has slightly regressed based on watching his matches, DSJ hasn't been in the line-up and I really have no other comments aside from Evans seeming like he has the most fire out of the whole team for competition.

 

They have little depth, and not as many elite guys coming back as you might want to make a title run against teams like OSU, PSU, or even Minnesota next year (very balanced line-up, will likely do better next year with all the freshmen they have in the line-up).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When the line up looks set and the scholly money is gone the recruiting of high caliber talent gets difficult. That's the main reason teams need to reload every few years. What I don't get is everyone freaking out over IA possibly nor being #1. I think you folks went through the same angst last year. To me the key for March is always having 4 guys who can get past semis and consi semis. IA has a pretty good shot at that with McD, Ramos, Marion, DSJ if healthy, add in Evans and Telford as a decent shot and you are looking pretty good.BTW Lofthouse NQ and Gambrell #3 NCAA last season are taking way to much heat. Going forward you only lose Marion from this group. You have 4 FR. and 2 sophs in lineup now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is not a cocky statement but I know it'll come across as one, but why don't fans realize that winning NCAA titles is pretty challenging. Just ask Oklahoma State about that in the 90's. They had awesome teams and yet went away most years with disappointment. So before you proclaim yourselves' locks for the next several titles, why don't you try winning more than one first.

 

Really, it's not that easy....especially when you have a bulls-eye on the front of your singlet that reads PSU. I'm not saying you don't have a good team, but magic in March takes a lot, and many far greater than the members of PSU's current roster have fallen. Ask Greg Jones, McGuiness, Borschell, and lots of others.

 

A little humility goes a long ways when you have one gold trophy in the case in 50 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To answer your question. Yes.

 

An additional thought, it is very exciting how young and talented Penn State, Ohio State, Minnesota, AND Iowa are. I don't follow Oklahoma State very closely and only follow the Michigan guys from Cornell, so I have no idea what their line-ups and rosters are like. Another team too get excited about their POTENTIAL would be Michigan (and I'm a state fan). They're putting together some really good recruiting classes and have a lot of young talent on their roster. Nebraska has a few talented young guys, anyone know what their outlook is?

 

I am a big fan of Big Ten wrestling, and in my mind. we could see 5 or 6 Big Ten teams fighting it out for a NCAA title the next few years. Penn State is no where near a lock to win the Big Tens the next three years, let alone the NCAAs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with alot of the posts here. I would love NCAA just to hand PSU the next 3 titles, but it's not going to happen. They will be wrestling for it all the way. A fair statement would be that PSU will be in the fight for the next few years barring injuries etc. I think the strength of the B1G has slightly stolen some polish from IA, and people give them a hard time. They are and will be a tough opponent for a long time. The other young team I didn't see mentioned is tOSU, they will be in the thick of things before long also.

I see A Alton as a contender in a weak weight class next year, but Mega,Dylan, and Morgantosh are definitely unproven until we see where they finish at the tourney. I do agree that Mega seems to be ahead of most wrestlers in his adjustment as a freshman though. I would argue that if you want to say that LH or Gambrall have regressed, what has Martellotti done?

If Matt Brown doesn't get into the lineup next year Penn State will have more holes in their lineup not less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with alot of the posts here. I would love NCAA just to hand PSU the next 3 titles, but it's not going to happen. They will be wrestling for it all the way. A fair statement would be that PSU will be in the fight for the next few years barring injuries etc. I think the strength of the B1G has slightly stolen some polish from IA, and people give them a hard time. They are and will be a tough opponent for a long time. The other young team I didn't see mentioned is tOSU, they will be in the thick of things before long also.

I see A Alton as a contender in a weak weight class next year, but Mega,Dylan, and Morgantosh are definitely unproven until we see where they finish at the tourney. I do agree that Mega seems to be ahead of most wrestlers in his adjustment as a freshman though. I would argue that if you want to say that LH or Gambrall have regressed, what has Martellotti done?

If Matt Brown doesn't get into the lineup next year Penn State will have more holes in their lineup not less.

 

I don't think I ever said people are going to lay down for PSU, at all. I didn't say Iowa would quit or roll over, not at all people just keep reading that in. What I said was that I think, i.e., it is my belief that PSU will win it and not because Iowa won't be trying to win, but because there that much better than Iowa right now. I also said barring injury and something unforeseen, like the DSJ, Carew, etc. injuries. So, and this is directed generally not at you personally, if you would respond to a post please take the time to actually read it and respond to what has been presented within it.

 

In any event, I don't know that Martelotti has regressed, he was a top-20 guy last year and got trounced by two elite kids and lost a close one to the #18 kid in the country. He is also new to the line-up and making a big cut but I guess if you would consider that to be a regression I wouldn't have a huge issue with it. I do think, though, that once he starts facing more kids, non-elite kids, he will look more solid

 

In comparison to Gambrall though, Martelotti went from a Scuffle placer last year with wins over some solid kids to outside the top 20 whereas Gambrall went from top 3 at NCAA's to unranked and losing to kids outside the top 20. I used the word regression because his drop off has been very dramatic and I felt it warranted the word choice.

 

I am sure Iowa will be tough, and in the thick of things, just not at the top, they will be top 5ish for the next two years or beyond.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't referring to you necessarily when I said they would be in a fight for it. I was taking aim at the post that said it was PSU's title to lose for the next 3 years. I read every reply from top to bottom so I didn't miss anything.

I am not going to pick apart how great PSU is, because they are defending champs with an even stronger team imo. I have just always felt like the talent being spread around more now can make teams that used to dominate appear to be weaker than they actually are.

The title is whether Iowa will be getting any better, and I believe they will improve in some places and falter in others as most teams will. I also don't believe that Iowa is the only team where the wrestlers improve, so even if they do will anyone notice? In other words, I don't really see these as down years for the Hawkeyes, but up years for everyone else.

If you believe current rankings, Iowa would be a tough bet on a title run. I can easily see pieces falling into place and them earning it in wrestlebacks again though too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to be clear, what I was trying to say is that pending Penn State can remain reasonably injury free, they likely won't be beat at the National Tournament for 3 more years. They may lose a dual here and there.

 

I would guess they will go into most NCAA Tournaments as 20-30 point favorites based on seeding alone. Pending upsets they could have a disaster tournament, or an opponent could have a heck of a run, but I just don't think it is likely. I would say Penn State has about a 90% chance to win each of the next 3 years. That would be roughly 75% likelihood to win 3 in a row.

 

After that, the title is up for grabs. So grab some popcorn, sitback and enjoy the Nittany Lion dominance. It isn't going anywhere, anytime soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love the end of the world threads for Iowa. If this crap gets any worse they are going to have to make a new forum for you guys. Grab a paper bag and consider a few things:

 

 

Injuries, Transfers, academic issues, and legal issues will unfortunately alter both of these prospected line ups. It is just a historical fact. I have watched year after year having seen guys attempt to predict lineups.

 

Q. Wright was completely wrote off prior to last year. Prediction is that Gambrall AA's this year and makes everyone look stupid for all the smack talk. It's amazing that a guy can be completely dismissed like that; when he is wrestling a weight class up like he is.

 

Bobby Telford, by simple virtue of graduation of seniors this year, will move up to AA ranking barring some super stud freshman coming back. This doesn't account in for his wrestling performance. He has the potential to AA this year.

 

You're post has maintained quite a double standard on indicating that PSU future recruits are set locks for performance while indicating Iowa's are unproven. I for one believe that Skon, Gillman, Clark, Meyer, Brooks and Burak have a tremendous amount of potential; that's not saying they will actually come in and AA straight to boot. Don't forget that Alton ended up not AAing as a freshman coming in. You can't predict it. McDonough won a title coming in as a freshman and DT was in the finals. It's the freshman factor. Some guys can wrestle in March as freshman and turn it on, others need to experience it a few times before they can take care of business. Predicting Freshman performance and college performance has not been an easy thing to do. I remember people dismissing Howe because he was from Indiana as a freshman, and a lot of people talking up Winston. Our ability to predict incoming freshman performance, as a wrestling community as a whole, has been quite hit or miss!

 

To dismiss how an additional year of growth and wrestling will have on guys like Mike Kelly, both Moore brothers, etc. I remember a few years back people saying that Eric Luedke was a hole in Iowa's line up. He went on to take second at nationals.

 

Iowa isn't as far off right now as most would think. They have under performed in Jan, but they have always hit lumps this time of the year. I think Telford, Gambrall, and Marion will all wrestle above their current rankings; by a substantial amount for some. If DSJ is back and can perform; that is a huge point swing for Iowa. The score may be a lot closer come March than you think.

 

 

It's kind of funny when you think about the point swing potential and how things have played out. At the beginning of the season Iowa had a healthy DSJ and Gambrall at 84, and the potential with Ruth not being able to wrestle due to his drunk incident; almost had Iowa set as a lock for the title.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you mad some good points. If you give Gambrall slack for being up a weight class, then you must have major respect for Brown moving up two/three at the same weight. That being said, I think PSU is in better shape than most think with a loss of one of those weights. Maybe not finals like DT or Ruth seem to be headed for, but certainly high AA imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the next couple of years will be Minny and PSU battling for the top.

 

Dardanes

Thorn

Dardanes

Ness

Zilverburg

Yohn

Storley

Steinhaus

Schiller

Nelson

 

That will be a killer team to mess with once some of their guys mature a little more. If they could find someone else to fit in that would bump Yohn out of the lineup they'd be even better next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I love the end of the world threads for Iowa. If this crap gets any worse they are going to have to make a new forum for you guys. Grab a paper bag and consider a few things:

 

 

Injuries, Transfers, academic issues, and legal issues will unfortunately alter both of these prospected line ups. It is just a historical fact. I have watched year after year having seen guys attempt to predict lineups.

 

Q. Wright was completely wrote off prior to last year. Prediction is that Gambrall AA's this year and makes everyone look stupid for all the smack talk. It's amazing that a guy can be completely dismissed like that; when he is wrestling a weight class up like he is.

 

Bobby Telford, by simple virtue of graduation of seniors this year, will move up to AA ranking barring some super stud freshman coming back. This doesn't account in for his wrestling performance. He has the potential to AA this year.

 

You're post has maintained quite a double standard on indicating that PSU future recruits are set locks for performance while indicating Iowa's are unproven. I for one believe that Skon, Gillman, Clark, Meyer, Brooks and Burak have a tremendous amount of potential; that's not saying they will actually come in and AA straight to boot. Don't forget that Alton ended up not AAing as a freshman coming in. You can't predict it. McDonough won a title coming in as a freshman and DT was in the finals. It's the freshman factor. Some guys can wrestle in March as freshman and turn it on, others need to experience it a few times before they can take care of business. Predicting Freshman performance and college performance has not been an easy thing to do. I remember people dismissing Howe because he was from Indiana as a freshman, and a lot of people talking up Winston. Our ability to predict incoming freshman performance, as a wrestling community as a whole, has been quite hit or miss!

 

To dismiss how an additional year of growth and wrestling will have on guys like Mike Kelly, both Moore brothers, etc. I remember a few years back people saying that Eric Luedke was a hole in Iowa's line up. He went on to take second at nationals.

 

Iowa isn't as far off right now as most would think. They have under performed in Jan, but they have always hit lumps this time of the year. I think Telford, Gambrall, and Marion will all wrestle above their current rankings; by a substantial amount for some. If DSJ is back and can perform; that is a huge point swing for Iowa. The score may be a lot closer come March than you think.

 

 

It's kind of funny when you think about the point swing potential and how things have played out. At the beginning of the season Iowa had a healthy DSJ and Gambrall at 84, and the potential with Ruth not being able to wrestle due to his drunk incident; almost had Iowa set as a lock for the title.

 

To begin, comparing Gambrall to Wright last year isn't a fair assessment. Wright was hurt and I believe Gambrall is too, but go back and look at who Wright lost to and who Gambrall lost to this year. In any event though, if you read closer, I qualified my statement, saying that as of now, Gambrall has shown nothing to indicate anything different at nationals. Of course he could wow everyone at NCAA's, and that is what you seem to be implying, but then now aren't you doing the same thing that your chastising me for, i.e., making a prediction? I just think my prediction that Gambrall won't impress at NCAA's is more grounded in fact than yours just as someone saying Quentin Wright won't do anything at NCAA's last year was more grounded in fact than someone saying he would based on his recent performances.

 

Second, I said Bobby Telford will be an All-American, multiple times. So what are you arguing? I said I don't know if he will become elite or not and this year where he will go. He has struggled recently so going into NCAA's he has not looked good. Why him become elite is an issue is that he will have to be what McDonough or Ramos is now for the team, the anchor, the elite talent to get them over the hump and I don't know if he will become that guy or not.

 

Second, you did not read my post carefully or even kind of carefully. I never said any of the PSU recruits were locks. When did I say that? I said Gullibon is unproven and that's the only major recruits PSU is getting. So PSU's recruit, who has never wrestled collegeiately, is unrpoven as is Iowa's. Where is the double-standard? In terms of redshirtted guys or non-starters, I have heard Dziewa has been okay but not spectacular and I know that Andrew Alton is very good already based on his full year of college last year, Matt Brown has proved it several times this year, and besides that I even said Luke Frey, a redshirt, is also unproven because I haven't really seen spectacular results in Open tournaments or anything of the like to indicate to me that he will be a top 10-20 guy or better next year.

 

Third, never said guys wouldn't improve, although some don't seem to exude some type of raw talent or flashes of brilliance the way others have. Mike Kelly hasn't shown me any flashes, Moore hasn't shown any flashes, Ballweg hasn't shown any flashes. But still, they can improve, but at what rate? Everyone is going to improve. I don't see anything to me that seems to show some type of exponential improvement where Kelly would come in next year and thump people.

 

And things can change, that is why I specifically prefaced my post saying barring any injuries or unforseen circumstances.

 

Fact is, Iowa whiffed on a lot of recruits and suffered two big injuries, one to DSF and one to Carew although Carew didn't prove that he was tough in college like DSJ did last year so he might of been good might of not. Lofthouse been okay thus far and will be RD12 - Mid AA max, Both Moore's are whiffs as of now, both Ballweg's are whiffs as of now, add Carew's two blown knees to the mix and you have really hurt your depth.

 

You lose McDonough in two years, and Marion this one, and you replace them with Cory Clark or Gilman who are both unproven as of today and Dziewa. Cory Clark and Gilman we have absolutely zero data colelgiately to determine how they will fare in replacing likely 4-time AA and possible multiple time champ Matt McDonough and Dziewa has shown okay results, but nothing to indicate he will replicate what Marion has done the last three years.

 

You have a bright spot in Evans, DSJ if he comes back healthy which I think really is not for sure (it seems more severe then people make it seem if he is out this long), Telford who is solid but who knows if he will become elite as I think Evans has the potential to be and DSJ has proven and that it. You have Ramos who will be a proven NC contender (and notice how I say he is proven even though he is a zero time AA - I think his results even now have shown he can hang and beat the best) and DSJ if he comes back injury free.

 

Compare this to the depth of talent Iowa had when he came from Virginia Tech and there not even in the same stratosphere. So that's why I think it will take two years, minimum, for Iowa to come back to the level they enjoyed when they had Metcalf, McDonough, LeClere, Marion, Morningstar, Keddy, et al.

 

Teams like Minnesota, PSU, and OSU are very young and very talented right now and I believe will put Iowa on the outside looking in somewhere in the top 5 but not near the top. I don't think this is unfounded or a crazy thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...