Is Iowa going to be any better in the next two years?

[Guest]

The word decline means to diminish or decrease. Iowa placed 3rd, 3rd and 4th the last 3 years, and by an ever increasing margin. Obviously, I have been correct in my analysis. When Evans, Lofthouse and Ramos graduate next year, the decline will get worse, in my opinion. Again, time will tell.

2013/2014 will be a Penn State and Minnesota battle-- Iowa will have to watch their back side the next couple of years and Michigan/Ohio State and Nebraska appear to be heading in the correct direction and OK is loaded. I do not believe that there ability to coach is in question it's their ability to pick out the high school kid who will reach the next level. Also they have appeared to have lost the edge that they once had in the transfer battle to OK State.

[AKHUNTER 290]

man o man.......if I were Iowa I would see IF maybe they could drop to say D3 or maybe NAIA

[donnie 0]

Sorry, alwayswrestling, I meant St.John along with Ramos and Lofthouse. Clearly an even larger loss.

[donnie 0]

Yes, I know Evans will be a Junior next year, just messed up.

[donnie 0]

Another 4th place finish. Ramos, StJohn and Lofthouse gone. Dziewa, Kelly, Moore, Evans and Telford will be gone the next year and still no titles. Wish I had been wrong.

[Zelph 0]

At this point Iowa is at least two years away from having an NCAA champion again.

They have to change some things or be content to vie for 'top five' finishes rather than titles.

[skikayaker 91]

Another 4th place finish. Ramos, StJohn and Lofthouse gone. Dziewa, Kelly, Moore, Evans and Telford will be gone the next year and still no titles. Wish I had been wrong.

I agree here. You can look at the uphill battle of competing for first against a "super" team like Penn State has had over the past four years but to not compete for 2nd place is a bigger problem. Clearly during the same time Okla St and Minnesota have out performed the Iowa team in the hunt for second place. Finishing over 30 points behind 1st place AGAIN may be the biggest problem for TnT to explain away. I've always said I think the Brands' are perfect for the job at Iowa but that's not going to change the minds of their skeptics or their bosses who want to see championships in exchange for job retention.

[de4856 361]

Well next year it looks like Gilman at 125. He has shown that he has the ability to make an impact. At 133 hopefully Clark puts on enough muscle to be dominant at that weight. Not sure about Dziewa, if he will be at 141 again, and if so how much of an impact he'll have. At 149 I think Brandon Sorenson might be the answer here. He placed 3rd at the Midlands and had a victory over Grothus. I know that doesn't mean problem solved but does give one something to ponder. It may turn out that Grothus stays at 149 and perhaps Sorenson can move to 157. Also Michael Kelly might be in there somewhere but probably not enough to be a substantial force. At 165, I believe Nick Moore will be good and have another 20 plus win season. Hopefully he'll get it done next year. At 174 Evans, I expect he will be right back where he is winning 25 plus matches and repeat as an AA. At 184 I think Sammy Brooks is our guy. He beat some ranked guys this year while filling in for Lofthouse. I think he will do well next year. At 197, and Heavy, Burak, and Telford will be back. If Burak can improve a little I think he'll easily improve on his 8th place finish. Telford will be back and I believe will be solid again and improve somewhat. So all in all I think will be okay. Hopefully they're able to recruit well, and maybe somebody who's already in that wrestling room can break through and be dominant on the National stage. The big question is what is Penn St, Minnesota, and Okie St, (plus a few others like Cornell) going to look like next year.

[VakAttack 3,132]

At this point Iowa is at least two years away from having an NCAA champion again.

They have to change some things or be content to vie for 'top five' finishes rather than titles.

 

They have 5 guys who are legitimate NCAA title contenders next year, 6 if you count Sammy Brooks (who I don't think will win because I think it's Dean's weight, but he could be a finalist with it clearing out). Gilman (beat Delgado), Clark (weight clearing out), Moore (beat Tyler Caldwell), Mike Evans (should have been a finalist this year) and Telford, who's right there with all the top guys and has beaten all of them except for Gwiazdowski.

[Flying-Tiger 617]

Vak, you have 3 guys that have never AA'd listed as legitimate title contenders. :?

 

Here's another way to look at it, a more realistic way:

 

Gilman: Tossed to his back twice and pinned by a non qualifier; yea he beat Delgado at Midlands, so did Clark and look at what happened at BigTens and NCAAs; and he couldn't beat out Clark who "only" placed 5th.

 

Clark: 5th at 125, does he have the horse power to even place at 133?

 

Moore: Hasn't placed after 4 years in the room; Deiringer, Jordan and Massa move into the weight class

 

Evans: placed behind 3 guys that will be back next season; the same 3 guys he placed behind the year before;

 

Telford: Placed behind two guys returning including the defending national champ.

 

Brooks: Couldn't beat out a guy that went 1-2 at nationals.

 

I have to admit, that was kind of fun ;)

[de4856 361]

Well I believe you have to look at the positive signs. Gilman and Clark are legitimate guys. The fact that Gilman lost to Minnesota wasn't good for Gilman but does that mean we write Gilman off? I prefer to think it was just one of those things. I think Gilman will do well next year. Clark looked awfully small but if he is really pulling all that weight as we keep hearing he should be able to fill out and do well at 133. 141, 149, and 157 are areas of concern. Perhaps Sorenson can be the guy at 149, or 157. Perhaps Dziewa and Grothus can improve. Moore will be good, maybe not not a National Champ but I think he will be solid and AA next year. Evans is a beast, no worries. Yeah to win the title is going to take something that he hasn't done yet, but look at Tony Ramos. Brooks had quality wins placed at the Midlands so I am not that worried about him. I think Lofthouse just had a bad tournament. Burak and Telford will be okay and improve somewhat so those two weight classes are not an issue.

[LAWRENCE 1]

Here is the difference between Brands and Sanderson coaching. Both were asked what there athletes need

to do. Brands says they have to win and win the close matches. Sanderson says they have to score and keep scoring and the winning will take care of itself.

 

One reply adds pressure to the athletes the other helps the athletes focus on the process and not the outcome which minimizes the pressure.

 

Enough said Iowa is done.....................

[VakAttack 3,132]

Here is the difference between Brands and Sanderson coaching. Both were asked what there athletes need

to do. Brands says they have to win and win the close matches. Sanderson says they have to score and keep scoring and the winning will take care of itself.

 

One reply adds pressure to the athletes the other helps the athletes focus on the process and not the outcome which minimizes the pressure.

 

Enough said Iowa is done.....................

 

I can probably pull up a dozen interviews where Brands has said something very similar to "score and keep scoring and the winning will take care of itself." As a matter of fact, here's an article from earlier this year where Grothus talks about the philosophy being taught by the Brands'. ALl from a seven second Google search.

 

http://thegazette.com/2014/01/10/grothu ... oma-state/

 

“You have to work hard in all aspects of wrestling,” Grothus said. “Like Terry Brands said, you have to score first and keep scoring and that was my mentality.”

 

Who knew? A quick Google search has reignited the dormant Hawkeye program.

[donnie 0]

I doubt I will be here to see it but Iowa will have to have a lot of improvement from a lot of people, and hope that Minnesota, Okie State and PSU wrestlers do not improve for the Hawks to win. They have had highly rated recruiting classes as well. You can maybe throw in Cornell, Ohio State and Michigan into the mix. I do not see Iowa winning.

[donnie 0]

At a Hawk website, there is a prediction of 10 Hawk AA's, 6 who have never done it, 7 have never done it at the weight, lowest AA was 2 at 7th, 6 in the top 4, with 5 in the top 3. A neighbor of mine says the Hawks are " a lock '.

[wreferee 7]

If that "neighbor" is on the same ward, you might both want to check medications.......

[zeeb 0]

I don't think Iowa will take a big step back, Gilman/Clark next year should score not a whole lot less than Clark/Ramos this year, Moore should AA, Evans has a good chance of making the finals (though the weight is still going to be pretty top heavy so he could also easily end up in the 5th place match), Brooks will fill in just fine for Lofthause, and Telford will still be a top guy.

 

But that still puts them in 4th or 5th place. I don't see them taking a step forward next year. Maybe 3rd with a good tourney.

[TBar1977 3,953]

Here is the difference between Brands and Sanderson coaching. Both were asked what there athletes need

to do. Brands says they have to win and win the close matches. Sanderson says they have to score and keep scoring and the winning will take care of itself.

 

One reply adds pressure to the athletes the other helps the athletes focus on the process and not the outcome which minimizes the pressure.

 

Enough said Iowa is done.....................

 

I can probably pull up a dozen interviews where Brands has said something very similar to "score and keep scoring and the winning will take care of itself." As a matter of fact, here's an article from earlier this year where Grothus talks about the philosophy being taught by the Brands'. ALl from a seven second Google search.

 

http://thegazette.com/2014/01/10/grothu ... oma-state/

 

“You have to work hard in all aspects of wrestling,” Grothus said. “Like Terry Brands said, you have to score first and keep scoring and that was my mentality.”

 

Who knew? A quick Google search has reignited the dormant Hawkeye program.

 

 

Vak, despite what you wrote Lawrence is still right.

 

Brands might say something similar to what Cael Sanderson says, but his wrestlers don't go out there and do it. The different actions/styles speak much louder than words here.

 

The Penn State wrestlers are way, WAY more offensive minded than the Iowa wrestlers. The most offensive minded wrestler I saw for Iowa this year was Clark. Even more so than Ramos against better wrestlers.

 

The Iowa guys get in there against tough guys and I just don't see where the offense is. The only wrestler I saw in a PSU singlet who did not out shoot his opponents the past few years was James English, but he practically has arthritis already due to dozens of injuries. The rest of the Penn State guys shoot no matter who they are wrestling, and unless totally out manned like Gulibon against Ramos they virtually always take more offensive shots than their opponents.

[VakAttack 3,132]

Vak, despite what you wrote Lawrence is still right.

 

Brands might say something similar to what Cael Sanderson says, but his wrestlers don't go out there and do it. The different actions/styles speak much louder than words here.

 

The Penn State wrestlers are way, WAY more offensive minded than the Iowa wrestlers. The most offensive minded wrestler I saw for Iowa this year was Clark. Even more so than Ramos against better wrestlers.

 

The Iowa guys get in there against tough guys and I just don't see where the offense is. The only wrestler I saw in a PSU singlet who did not out shoot his opponents the past few years was James English, but he practically has arthritis already due to dozens of injuries. The rest of the Penn State guys shoot no matter who they are wrestling, and unless totally out manned like Gulibon against Ramos they virtually always take more offensive shots than their opponents.

 

A mirage based on Ruth and Taylor. Mega, Gulibon, Retherford, Random PSU 149, D. Alton, Matt Brown, McIntosh, Gingrich/Lawson are hardly offensive dynamos. When Iowa won a title with Metcalf leading the way that didn't make Morningstar an attacking style wrestler. But McDonough (before senior year), Dennis, Slaton, Metcalf (obviously), Borschel, Phil Keddy, Dan Erekson have all been attacking style wrestlers, all under Tom Brands. This is a farcical argument.

[donnie 0]

To wreferee: my neighbor lives in Highland in East Waterloo. You may be confined to a psychiatric ward but I am not. I take no medications.

[headshuck 2,311]

English has dozens of injuries? Dozens?

[Zelph 0]

Iowa won't place higher than Edinburo next year.

[TBar1977 3,953]

Will Iowa really be better? The posts now read just like the Iowa posts from two years ago, and then from last year. Its all good on paper, I guess.

 

But will Gilman - Clark be better than Clark - Ramos? Hard to see how that could be given Tony won this year.

 

Jeva and Grothus? They have not really shown it yet at NCAA Tournament level, so will they? Not sure I am seeing it. Maybe Sorenson, but he did not beat out Grothus during the year even though he did beat him one time. If Sorenson takes over for St. John, how is this an improvement? Not sure about that.

 

One area where they really should be better is at 165. Moore has to have learned something from this year. So I can see where he'd do better next year. Evans should be predicted to be somewhere in that top 4.

 

Brooks should do pretty well at 184, and Iowa can do better if only for the fact that Lofthouse set the bar so low at NCAA's this year. But 184 has other studs too, some of whom will flood into this weight with the departure of Ruth. Dean, Dechow, and Lorenzo Thomas all should be rated higher. Brooks will be in the hunt after that.

 

Burak is Burak. 8th in 2014. Of the 7 in front of him only Heflin leaves, but the kid replacing Heflin is even better than Heflin imo. Telford is Telford. He can make the final or finish 4th again.

 

The only new guy factored into any of this is Snyder, but we know there will be more at other weights. Iowa would be more bankable if they had some true hammers like in the olden days, but they don't.

[SetonHallPirate 846]

Iowa won't place higher than Edinburo next year.

Zelph, one of two things is true...either you're nuts, or next season will be a 2007-2008 Gopher-style disaster for Iowa. I go back on comments saying that Iowa is a prohibitive favorite, but they still are heavy favorites going into next year, unless something dramatic happens in terms of a mass exodus out.

[MSU158 1,617]

Will Iowa really be better? The posts now read just like the Iowa posts from two years ago, and then from last year. Its all good on paper, I guess.

 

But will Gilman - Clark be better than Clark - Ramos? Hard to see how that could be given Tony won this year.

 

Jeva and Grothus? They have not really shown it yet at NCAA Tournament level, so will they? Not sure I am seeing it. Maybe Sorenson, but he did not beat out Grothus during the year even though he did beat him one time. If Sorenson takes over for St. John, how is this an improvement? Not sure about that.

 

One area where they really should be better is at 165. Moore has to have learned something from this year. So I can see where he'd do better next year. Evans should be predicted to be somewhere in that top 4.

 

Brooks should do pretty well at 184, and Iowa can do better if only for the fact that Lofthouse set the bar so low at NCAA's this year. But 184 has other studs too, some of whom will flood into this weight with the departure of Ruth. Dean, Dechow, and Lorenzo Thomas all should be rated higher. Brooks will be in the hunt after that.

 

Burak is Burak. 8th in 2014. Of the 7 in front of him only Heflin leaves, but the kid replacing Heflin is even better than Heflin imo. Telford is Telford. He can make the final or finish 4th again.

 

The only new guy factored into any of this is Snyder, but we know there will be more at other weights. Iowa would be more bankable if they had some true hammers like in the olden days, but they don't.

 

Sorenson was redshirting and short of him winning Midlands they weren't going to pull his shirt.