Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
tightwaist

Beitz match screws PSU

Recommended Posts

Beitz could have been hit for stalling at least 2 more times throughout the regulation (we know they're almost never calling it in SV/TB), and he wasn't, so this was much ado about nothing in my book. Beitz should have kept wrestling.

 

If this had involved an Iowa wrestler your answer would have been, IMO, slightly more intelligent. A ref gave an unearned point that determined the match and you dismissively wave it off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beitz could have been hit for stalling at least 2 more times throughout the regulation (we know they're almost never calling it in SV/TB), and he wasn't, so this was much ado about nothing in my book. Beitz should have kept wrestling.

 

If this had involved an Iowa wrestler your answer would have been, IMO, slightly more intelligent. A ref gave an unearned point that determined the match and you dismissively wave it off.

 

I thought the TD in OT many minutes later determined the match?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correction, Minnesota is one of THE BIG 10 Dual Co-Champions.

I went to Penn State. Today they got beat.

 

Regardless of whether they beat the team that beat Minnie, they still lost to the mustard colored rats.

 

My say means nothing to the Big 10, but they (Minnie) should not have to share that title with any other school.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beitz did not have a warning, nor should he have. Dardanes did nothing to earn that win. Listen to Gibbons during the match, he clearly states that Beitz is wrestling very smart and never even hints at a stalling warning. How is Dardanes ranked 3rd? He has zero offense from his feet

 

Beitz was wrestling smart because he is an inferior wrestler who got one TD early and shut down wrestling for the rest of the match hoping to win off that one TD, which is a common strategy for a wrestler to employ vs. a superior opponent. Dardanes continued to press forward for the entirety of the match and continued to attack the legs while Beitz backed off the mat and refused to engage. Dardanes should not have gotten 1 for a Fleeing call, but he should have from Beitz' obvious stalling.

 

I could be wrong and would have to watch the match again, but Daranes attacking the legs? I could have sworn the shot at the end of regulation where he incorrectly received a tech violation point, was the first time the entire match he actually got anywhere near Zack's legs. Holding your own in the hand fighting battle, and constantly presenting yourself generally speaking is not stalling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correction, Minnesota is one of THE BIG 10 Dual Co-Champions.

I went to Penn State. Today they got beat.

 

Regardless of whether they beat the team that beat Minnie, they still lost to the mustard colored rats.

 

My say means nothing to the Big 10, but they (Minnie) should not have to share that title with any other school.

 

I actually agree with you. Tie-breaker should be head to head. It should be Minnesota's dual title.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beitz could have been hit for stalling at least 2 more times throughout the regulation (we know they're almost never calling it in SV/TB), and he wasn't, so this was much ado about nothing in my book. Beitz should have kept wrestling.

 

If this had involved an Iowa wrestler your answer would have been, IMO, slightly more intelligent. A ref gave an unearned point that determined the match and you dismissively wave it off.

 

I'm sorry, did wrestling stop at the point of the erroneous technical violation? Well, I mean, Beitz had stopped a few minutes before, but you know what I mean.

 

As to your most recent post, the technical violation was not at the end of the match.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beitz could have been hit for stalling at least 2 more times throughout the regulation (we know they're almost never calling it in SV/TB), and he wasn't, so this was much ado about nothing in my book. Beitz should have kept wrestling.

 

If this had involved an Iowa wrestler your answer would have been, IMO, slightly more intelligent. A ref gave an unearned point that determined the match and you dismissively wave it off.

 

I thought the TD in OT many minutes later determined the match?

 

Without the unearned point incorrectly being awarded to Dardanes there is no overtime. So yes, the point did make a determination in who won. It basically gave the competitor who would have lost an unearned second opportunity to win.

 

However, do please play again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike McCormack is a good ref, but he got the call wrong in the 149 match. Fleeing is a stall call, not a technical violation. Should have been a stall warning, since there were no prior stall calls. This cost PSU the match.

 

My question is this. What the heck are the 2nd refs doing that they can't chime in and correct the original call? If we have video replay now, why do we even need a 2nd ref...especially since they so rarely change any calls?

 

The assistant ref caught the locked hands violation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beitz could have been hit for stalling at least 2 more times throughout the regulation (we know they're almost never calling it in SV/TB), and he wasn't, so this was much ado about nothing in my book. Beitz should have kept wrestling.

 

If this had involved an Iowa wrestler your answer would have been, IMO, slightly more intelligent. A ref gave an unearned point that determined the match and you dismissively wave it off.

 

I'm sorry, did wrestling stop at the point of the erroneous technical violation? Well, I mean, Beitz had stopped a few minutes before, but you know what I mean.

 

As to your most recent post, the technical violation was not at the end of the match.

 

23 seconds to go. Dardanes has touched Zack's legs once. It is possible Dardanes may have somehow scored, but based upon the first 6 minutes and 37 seconds it isn't likely. Maybe the ref could have possibly felt a need to throw a second stall up there in the final 23 seconds.

 

So if this had involved an Iowa wrestler, I am fairly certain you are not nearly as dismissive. But you already know I have a point and you don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beitz could have been hit for stalling at least 2 more times throughout the regulation (we know they're almost never calling it in SV/TB), and he wasn't, so this was much ado about nothing in my book. Beitz should have kept wrestling.

 

Agreed. Maybe they teach fleeing the mat at PSU...watch the Howe-Brown match at the All-Star.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beitz won't be an "inferior wrestler" when he's a true 149-pounder and not a redshirt freshman. Give him a little more time and these close losses to the #3 and #4 guys in the country won't be losses.

 

I agree that Zach wasn't as offensive late as he was early, but Dardanes wasn't anymore offensive that whole match than Beitz was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How is it that fleeing isn't a point? Why are people saying there shouldn't have been a point?

 

5.13 Fleeing Wrestling Area

Fleeing or attempting to flee the wrestling area, or forcing or attempting to force an opponent out of the wrestling area as a means of avoiding being scored upon, is considered stalling. Both wrestlers should make every effort to remain in bounds. Fleeing occurs anytime a wrestler avoids wrestling by intentionally going or trying to go out of bounds, by pulling or attempting to pull the opponent out of bounds or by pushing or attempting to push the opponent out of bounds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beitz was wrestling smart because he is an inferior wrestler...

Yes.

 

He wrestled just like Gilman, Dziewa, Kelly, Moore, Evans, Lofthouse and Brooks did when Iowa wrestled Penn State.

 

Great matches today from Ness and Storley!

 

McIntosh outwrestled Schiller, who didn't give that one away. Best overall performance by a Penn State wrestler on the day.

 

Mega had a lot of action but probably could have cut and released for another TD.

 

Gulibon needs to be careful when he gets his feet caught under his butt (he was lucky a couple of times today - Thorn is the type that could put him striaght to his back in that position).

 

Retherford looked strong against a very tough 2x AA in Dardanes.

 

Beitz - well, apparently he's "inferior". Regardless, a blown call may/may not have made the difference against a 2013 AA.

 

Alton almost got hit with the elevator in the 1st. down 3-0 maybe look to throw there and stay off the legs. Ness is a freak (love his style, always looking to pin!).

 

Taylor wrestled for a couple of minutes at most, with no sense of urgency (again) in a dual that Penn State needed a pin or tech.

 

Storley did a great job on the counters. I like Brown in a BIG rematch.

 

Ruth wrestled really well. Steinhaus looks good at this point in the season and will be a tough draw for anyone at NCAAs.

 

Gingrich - meh, heavyweights...

 

Excellent job by Minnesota! They are THE BIG 10 Dual Champions.

 

OldMarine it seems like you and I watched the same match. Here were my posts:

 

First half thoughts:

 

A little mental letdown by Megaludis - got to start on getting the back points earlier, to assure the tech and to get to the 15 point margin faster. Hope that doesn't cost them.

 

Gulibon is clearly talented, but against the top guys he looks young/physically undeveloped.

 

Retherford rode his guy like Thorn rode Gulibon. No real attempt to turn, but the ref is calling non-stalemates for both teams.

 

Beitz got that nice TD, but made no effort to ride in the second, and then shut it down too early. Although I'm rooting for PSU that fleeing call was OK. The locked hands looked quick on the replay, but it was called by the assistant, so I assume he had a good look. Beitz went all the way for 10 minutes whereas last week Alton could not go 7.

 

Dylan just got out-wrestled in every period.

Second half:

 

Taylor started a little slow (I'm waiting for some insider to say he was sick or something) and then Minnesota stalled on the bottom to keep the score as low as he could. Good strategy. Taylor needed to get after it more to make it clear that the Minnesota guy was doing nothing. It is almost like a little downside of his terrific ability to just hang and float on top until he feels the opening.

 

Browne was a little unlucky, but he got outwrestled, give Minnesota credit here. Good match.

 

Ruth in a tough spot having to get bonus vs a good opponent; thought he'd nail that cradle but it didn't happen. PSU is going to find out today what happens when you benefit all season from guaranteed falls and techs from Taylor and Ruth. Somebody else needs to step up.

 

Great match by Mac -- that was stepping up against the #1 guy in the country. Ruth needed more of that attitude.

 

2 point lead not enough to take into the h'weight match. Went about as you'd expect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I distinctly remember a true fleeing the mat non-call a few years back where the Minnesota guy literally pulled the mat up after grabbing onto it for dear life, against David Taylor. No call there. I don't think it would have impacted the final score which ended up to be a draw.

 

This year however the position would have wasted time off the clock to Beitz' advantage and ended in a stalemate if it were not for ND's ankle twist that caused a reaction for Beitz to push away in the only direction that would have allowed him to escape the hold. Therefore, there should have been no stall warning. My problem with the flee the mat call is that it came after two officials reviewed the hold, the ankle twist that was clearly viewable on video review, and the push away that was called a flee rather than a means to escape a hold. What makes it more of a problem is that the ref's mistake in awarding a point to Dardanes despite Beitz not having a prior stall warning clearly changed the outcome of the match, and subsequently the outcome of the entire dual meet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dardanes was by far the aggressor. It's hard to take and finish a shot on a guy moving backwards. You can't back off the mat that many times and expect to get the benefit of the doubt.

This isn't benefit of the doubt. This is complete and utter misapplication of a rule. Imagine the uproar if they gave Penn State five points for each of their majors, and that decided the dual. It's the same thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How is it that fleeing isn't a point? Why are people saying there shouldn't have been a point?

Because Fleeing the Mat is no longer considered a technical violation. It's now considered under the stalling point table, and should have been awarded as a stall warning.

I am highly confused as to why there are so many people who don't know this.

 

And I'm still highly confused as to why there was 1 point awarded here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How is it that fleeing isn't a point? Why are people saying there shouldn't have been a point?

Because Fleeing the Mat is no longer considered a technical violation. It's now considered under the stalling point table, and should have been awarded as a stall warning.

I am highly confused as to why there are so many people who don't know this.

 

And I'm still highly confused as to why there was 1 point awarded here.

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beitz won't be an "inferior wrestler" when he's a true 149-pounder and not a redshirt freshman. Give him a little more time and these close losses to the #3 and #4 guys in the country won't be losses.

 

I agree that Zach wasn't as offensive late as he was early, but Dardanes wasn't anymore offensive that whole match than Beitz was.

 

Similar to how the Altons will each win multiple national titles?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beitz won't be an "inferior wrestler" when he's a true 149-pounder and not a redshirt freshman. Give him a little more time and these close losses to the #3 and #4 guys in the country won't be losses.

 

I agree that Zach wasn't as offensive late as he was early, but Dardanes wasn't anymore offensive that whole match than Beitz was.

 

Similar to how the Altons will each win multiple national titles?

 

I think Andrew gets winded walking out to the center of the mat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Several seasons ago, it was determined that kicking out of bounds to get away from a lower leg attack was to be called stalling. Full stop. That's the rule. The only judgment is whether he kicked out or not. If he kicks out, it's a stalling call. The referee blew the call and the assistant was no help. You can argue all day whether it cost Beitz the match, but the call was bad, and that cannot be in dispute.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dardanes pushes forward just like the Iowa style that you admire. Pushing forward is not taking a shot.

 

You do realize if one wrestler is pushing - the other wrestler can push back instead of backing up right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...