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tightwaist

Beitz match screws PSU

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Dardanes pushes forward just like the Iowa style that you admire. Pushing forward is not taking a shot.

 

You do realize if one wrestler is pushing - the other wrestler can push back instead of backing up right?

 

And you do realize that if that was all there was to folk style wrestling they'd have re named it Sumo wrestling.

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As an Iowa fan who moonlights with Minnesota today was a great day of wrestling! A highly entertaining dual and the bad guys lost as they should have. I have to tell you nothing makes me happier to watch that dual and then get on here and see topics like this. This is exactly what I was hoping to see!!! Crying about the homer ref (who was in PSU's favor all day) and bitching that this call cost you the dual!!! This is great!!! I would agree that it's a blatant misapplication of the rule, but could it have happened to a better team? I would argue that if Beitz doesn't go straight back the whole match (no stall calls on Beitz by the alleged homer ref by the way) and doesn't dive out of bounds as a way to defend shots then this never happens. I just hope you guys keep blaming refs and not yourself or more specifically Dylan Alton. Please, please, never change!!! This is all why I LOVE college wrestling!!!

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OK, let's grant that the cal was wrong. So Beitz has a minute of OT to do something about that, followed by two tie-breaks and then another SV, which he loses. So, too bad, but we are only three matches in and we have the rejuvenated and undefeated Dylan Alton next. Oops. He walks into one and gets pinned (almost got nailed earlier in the match) No matter the twin studs are yet to come. But, alas, they can only muster one bonus point between the two of them, and OMG, Brown gets hammered, so PSU is deep in it. Excellent match by McIntosh, and the Nelson closes the deal. Does this cover it, or do we have to whine endlessly about the Beitz match when I think there were nine other guys in those blue belted singlets?

 

Good hustle by Minnesota and a deserved win.

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It's really quite simple: Beitz had a bad call go against him with a TON of time left in the match and still did nothing to try to ensure the victory for himself. It's not like the match ended on that call...

Yeah..not sure how anyone could argue this line of thinking now that I've thought about it. If a wrestler can't make up points for a bad call then he deserves to lose. Hell...why do we even expect referees to make the right calls anyway? Wrestlers should win no matter how many bad calls go against them so long as there is time on the clock. Ref makes 4 bad calls giving your opponent 4 points...10 seconds left on the clock.. that's plenty of time to pull off a 5 point move to correct things.

 

I'm almost ashamed I didn't understand all this earlier Vak. No wonder it seems there's never any repercussions from the NCAA toward referees for incorrect calls.. They too must understand all this. I'm to the point that I'm ready to admit that we shouldn't even need officiating. I thank you for that..

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From a neutral perspective, i thought it was a bad call.

 

But in any situation you cant let the ref take control of the match. Weve seen it happen too many times. Keep wrestling.

 

The bad news is, Minnesota is the only one who gets calls in there favor at home. The Hawkeyes and Nittany lions have never once recieved a homer call in Carver or Rec Hall.

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How is it that fleeing isn't a point? Why are people saying there shouldn't have been a point?

Because Fleeing the Mat is no longer considered a technical violation. It's now considered under the stalling point table, and should have been awarded as a stall warning.

I am highly confused as to why there are so many people who don't know this.

 

And I'm still highly confused as to why there was 1 point awarded here.

 

I agree, and my original question in the post was about the assistant referee. Why is he even there if he can't correct, overrule or at least confer with the main ref to help get these things figured out? Last week, the Grajales-Alton match presented another example of two sets of eyes unable to accurately score the match. In that match, fortunately, it was irrelevant to the final outcome.

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Mike McCormack is a good ref, but he got the call wrong in the 149 match. Fleeing is a stall call, not a technical violation. Should have been a stall warning, since there were no prior stall calls. This cost PSU the match.

 

My question is this. What the heck are the 2nd refs doing that they can't chime in and correct the original call? If we have video replay now, why do we even need a 2nd ref...especially since they so rarely change any calls?

 

........ 2nd ref's duties are to drive the #1 ref to the venue, make sure he has coffee w/ cream, and support any possible wrong call that #1 makes by shaking his head in a "yes, great call" motion.............

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Cale admits during interview "That's my mistake...". He takes the blame when actually it is one of the asst coaches responsibilities to monitor the scoring (maybe Cody was penning in a new op ed piece when he should have been watching the match).

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Watching the match again, what's gets lost in all this is that Dardanes grabs the toe and torques the knee causing Beitz to change position and kick out. That in itself should of had the match stopped for potentially dangerous instead of a flee call. Talk about a perfect storm :?

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Watching the match again, what's gets lost in all this is that Dardanes grabs the toe and torques the knee causing Beitz to change position and kick out. That in itself should of had the match stopped for potentially dangerous instead of a flee call. Talk about a perfect storm :?

 

That did in fact happen, F-T, but from the refs vantage point I don't think he could actually see that Dardanes had torqued the foot. I do agree, though, that what he did was PD. That type of foot torque is used in MMA all the time, typically while bracing the lower leg over a forearm. Dardanes did not do it that way (Beitz would not have been able to easily kick out if he had), but he still placed a significant twisting load on Beitz' ankle enough so that had Beitz not kicked out he may have been injured.

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Beitz could have been hit for stalling at least 2 more times throughout the regulation (we know they're almost never calling it in SV/TB), and he wasn't, so this was much ado about nothing in my book. Beitz should have kept wrestling.

 

If this had involved an Iowa wrestler your answer would have been, IMO, slightly more intelligent. A ref gave an unearned point that determined the match and you dismissively wave it off.

 

I'm sorry, did wrestling stop at the point of the erroneous technical violation? Well, I mean, Beitz had stopped a few minutes before, but you know what I mean.

 

As to your most recent post, the technical violation was not at the end of the match.

 

 

I find it hard to believe you watched the whole match and can ever suggest Beitz was stalling!! The first 2 periods I have it 12-5 in shots attempted......Beitz every bit as active and more considering shots taken. The 3rd period was 5 -3 in favor of Dardanes and 3-1 after the "incident" Numerous times Dardanes would snap Beitz's head to the mat and still would not attempts to shoot.

 

You are judging the match as most refs do.....you can stall through out the match but if you back off in the last 30 seconds I will ding you!!!! To ding Beitz for attempting to get out of the takedown attempt as most every wrestler would do in the middle of the mat is just wrong.

 

I just watched the match again and 2 things stick out. One is that everyone was oblivious to the rule and then I see Dardanes twisting Beitz's ankle witch appears to spur Beitz's lung to breack his hold. Then Gibbons half laughing acknowledging Dardanes twisting past the point of normal motion!!

 

If anyone should have been dinged in that situation it was Dardanes!

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I can't be the only one who wishes they would penalize guys every time they run off the mat to avoid the td. In that match alone there were instances of both guys backing straight up off the mat. Was still a great match though.

 

In terms of PSU losing Taylor finishing that cradle really would have helped.

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Hmm five pages of bickering. That was an incredible dual. People on either side that want to complain. Please tell me about a single dual you have seen that was officiated perfectly ?

My old high school coach once said this when a teammate complained about the reffing. And I quote, "If you would of just kicked the guys ass the ref couldn't screw ya!"

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Hmm five pages of bickering. That was an incredible dual. People on either side that want to complain. Please tell me about a single dual you have seen that was officiated perfectly ?

My old high school coach once said this when a teammate complained about the reffing. And I quote, "If you would of just kicked the guys ass the ref couldn't screw ya!"

Yeah...I guess that's probably the best way to approach things. Beat a guy down and you won't have to worry about bad officiating. In fact, I'm sure if the official would have GIVEN David Taylor points during last seasons national championship match, Koll would have told Dake the same thing. "You should have been up by 10 instead of 1 boy..."

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I can't be the only one who wishes they would penalize guys every time they run off the mat to avoid the td. In that match alone there were instances of both guys backing straight up off the mat. Was still a great match though.

 

In terms of PSU losing Taylor finishing that cradle really would have helped.

 

I don't like the kick away but if you can pin a guy off the mat, what makes a kick away defense from a low single off the mat any different than when they do it in the middle of the mat. In the middle of the mat, it's great defense but on the edge its stalling. Conversely, if you don't move up on the leg in bounds while the wrestler is kicking away(Nickerson national finals), you get called for stalling???

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This is extremely frustrating! For the last umpteen years, refs have refused to call fleeing the mat in those situations (Beitz/Dard) when it would clearly make the sport more exciting. Now, a ref calls it exactly the way he should have, but because of the rule change, he screws it up! Then, one match later, Ness feigns a flee, and then does a spectacular monkey jump for a takedown, but the ref calls him for stalling. He got the application of the rule right, but the interpretation of the situation wrong!

 

I don't expect refs to get ever call right and I can absolutely deal with potentially match altering mistakes. I just wish the NCAA refs would emphasize that fleeing a hold at the edge of the mat will be punished appropriately to discourage it.

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