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gutfirst

so a figure 4 around the body is ok now?

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i agree that the retherford kid is tough on top. anyone else notice that his leg ride turns into a figure 4 around the body.

 

his body scissors turn into a figure 4 when one shin is perpendicular to his opponent's spine and the other leg is parallel and the legs lock.

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It wouldn't hurt my feelings as a fan if they just made leg riding illegal all together. It most certainly wouldn't have hurt my feelings as a wrestler.

 

 

I don't agree with that, but I would like to see leg riders called for stalling more. If you aren't working to turn a guy or even if you are and he's not going over, you shouldn't be allowed to just put in the legs and sit on top. They call stalemates and stalling on crab riders and guys that work bar arm/half nelson series, but leg riders seem to get away with doing a lot of nothing on top.

 

If someone is running a bar and a wrist and can't get someone to go over within an adequate amount of time, eventually a stalemate is called. If a guy is riding on top and the bottom wrestler keeps building a base, eventually the top man is called for "not doing anything".

 

Why is it if a legger is working a cross body and can't get his opponent turned, the ref just allows him to keep working an unsuccessful move? Why is it if a legger just continuously keeps stretching his opponent out, after his opponent keeps building a base, the ref doesn't say anything?

 

Leggers get away with that too much. Either turn a guy over with a guillotine, half nelson, cross body ride or banana splits....or lets start over again.

 

Also.....if a wrestler makes it to his feet more than twice and all you are doing is latching onto him like a leech, that should count as an escape. I get sick of watching bottom wrestlers get to their feet and then the top man latches on and the ref calls a stalemate to start over again. I saw that 7 times in a row once in a match. It's b.s. Give the bottom guy and escape and let's go neutral.

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As noted by Pinnum, it never met the criteria of a fig-4, gotta be at the knee (it was mid-calf)

 

i don't think the foot needs to be behind the knee. i think it's the angle of the legs that make the hold effective. if the guy on top has his leg at 90 degrees and locks it a figure 4. inside of 90 is a scissors. the top guy's advantage is the same at 90 whether he is behind his own knee or calf.

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As noted by Pinnum, it never met the criteria of a fig-4, gotta be at the knee (it was mid-calf)

 

i don't think the foot needs to be behind the knee. i think it's the angle of the legs that make the hold effective. if the guy on top has his leg at 90 degrees and locks it a figure 4. inside of 90 is a scissors. the top guy's advantage is the same at 90 whether he is behind his own knee or calf.

 

They won't be calling that unless the leg gets locked behind the knee. Zain has been riding like this for years and it has never once been called.

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tbar,

 

you're right right, but it's goofy that it won't get called. toe behind the knee or calf has the same effect/pressure.

You apparently didn't wrestle when figure four was legal. A four locked behind the knee is like closing a cam lock or a chain binder--no effort needed to keep it tight and the only defense is trying to stand and tumble/slam the top guy (who knows this only works if he panics and losens it himself), or crawl OB. Also not easy to pin from unless bottom kinda gives up. Basically a punishment, almost submission hold.

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tbar,

 

you're right right, but it's goofy that it won't get called. toe behind the knee or calf has the same effect/pressure.

 

No it isn't. Read ccrider's post. The foot behind the knee is a lock, the foot behind the mid calf or ankle is not.

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tbar,

 

you're right right, but it's goofy that it won't get called. toe behind the knee or calf has the same effect/pressure.

You apparently didn't wrestle when figure four was legal. A four locked behind the knee is like closing a cam lock or a chain binder--no effort needed to keep it tight and the only defense is trying to stand and tumble/slam the top guy (who knows this only works if he panics and losens it himself), or crawl OB. Also not easy to pin from unless bottom kinda gives up. Basically a punishment, almost submission hold.

 

Truth right here. I also wrestled back in the dark ages when the figure 4 was legal and body scissors were illegal. You could absolutely punish a guy with the figure 4 with almost no effort when you got it locked behind the knee. If not at the knee it's not nowhere near as tight and much harder to keep the other guy where you want him. I'm amazed that Retherford controls guys as well as he does with that scissor lock, that's not an easy thing to do.

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I would be fine with the stalemate being called more frequently when the top man is not effectively using his ride.

 

Also, not sure why...but Retherford rarely uses double boots.....which would keep him from being close to the figure 4.

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I would be happy if the bottom guy was dinged a point every 20 secs for not being able to stand up. Bottom is the weakest position for most wrestlers and rather than fixing that issue guys who couldn't beat legs want to punish the guy holding them down working for a point. The officials already call PD too much. Bottom is really rarely in danger he can roll to his back. He is only in danger when legger prevents that roll.

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I would be happy if the bottom guy was dinged a point every 20 secs for not being able to stand up. Bottom is the weakest position for most wrestlers and rather than fixing that issue guys who couldn't beat legs want to punish the guy holding them down working for a point. The officials already call PD too much. Bottom is really rarely in danger he can roll to his back. He is only in danger when legger prevents that roll.

 

+100 for this. This is especially true at the high school level. Guy gets legs in, bottom guy clams up like a turtle, ref calls stalemate. Guy gets legs in again, bottom guy does turtle impression, top guy gets hit for stalling.

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I would be happy if the bottom guy was dinged a point every 20 secs for not being able to stand up. Bottom is the weakest position for most wrestlers and rather than fixing that issue guys who couldn't beat legs want to punish the guy holding them down working for a point. The officials already call PD too much. Bottom is really rarely in danger he can roll to his back. He is only in danger when legger prevents that roll.

 

I see your point and I understand your logic and you're right. However if we did that we'd see even more drop down to ankle hold on, lift it up stall and slowly work up to body. Even if they were rewarded a point for stalling it'd be a wash in a few more seconds.

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i agree that the retherford kid is tough on top. anyone else notice that his leg ride turns into a figure 4 around the body.

 

his body scissors turn into a figure 4 when one shin is perpendicular to his opponent's spin and the other leg is parallel and the legs lock.

 

So what you are saying for all to understand - you do not know what you are talking about. Ok, is that on all efforts to communicate, or just wrestling subjects?

Wait, never mind. You most likely are not aware of what you do not know.

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It wouldn't hurt my feelings as a fan if they just made leg riding illegal all together. It most certainly wouldn't have hurt my feelings as a wrestler.

 

 

I don't agree with that, but I would like to see leg riders called for stalling more. If you aren't working to turn a guy or even if you are and he's not going over, you shouldn't be allowed to just put in the legs and sit on top. They call stalemates and stalling on crab riders and guys that work bar arm/half nelson series, but leg riders seem to get away with doing a lot of nothing on top.

 

If someone is running a bar and a wrist and can't get someone to go over within an adequate amount of time, eventually a stalemate is called. If a guy is riding on top and the bottom wrestler keeps building a base, eventually the top man is called for "not doing anything".

 

Why is it if a legger is working a cross body and can't get his opponent turned, the ref just allows him to keep working an unsuccessful move? Why is it if a legger just continuously keeps stretching his opponent out, after his opponent keeps building a base, the ref doesn't say anything?

 

Leggers get away with that too much. Either turn a guy over with a guillotine, half nelson, cross body ride or banana splits....or lets start over again.

 

Also.....if a wrestler makes it to his feet more than twice and all you are doing is latching onto him like a leech, that should count as an escape. I get sick of watching bottom wrestlers get to their feet and then the top man latches on and the ref calls a stalemate to start over again. I saw that 7 times in a row once in a match. It's b.s. Give the bottom guy and escape and let's go neutral.

 

Who was it,( Metcalf maybe)that when getting rode like a horse by Palmer, he would stand up in an attempt to escape, and then got panelized for creating a potentially dangerous situation... I'm thinking Metcalf vs..?? (the kid from Ohio?) Just remember this as it was the 1st time I ever saw it called that way.

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