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MNRodent

Why Stillwater for Final 4?

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If this format, qualifiers one weekend, the next weekend being a final four (or maybe final eight), then it should be at the place easiest to get to. That would be a place to which any medium sized air port has direct flights and a place anyone could drive to in one reasonable day (say 10 hours). That would be Chicago. Of course the fact that 3 of the schools are within maybe six hours this year. There is even a 12-15000 seat arena almost within walking distance of O'Hare.

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What some might call appeasement, others might refer to as institutional responsiveness. Either way, if maintaining a UNI monopoly was good, why do we nevertheless rotate the venue of the NCAA's each year?

 

On a different front, who here is opposed to potentially hosting the Olympics here in the USA again? Why not hold them all in Athens, Greece? They founded the event, there are more Europeans than U.S. residents, and localized inertia might be worth developing around such an important competition.

 

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I believe they were held in Olympia which appears to be on the other side of the peninsula.

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Nowadays the Olympics would have to be scattered throughout Greece, just as they were scattered throughout Atlanta (and Georgia) in '96 to better accomodate their growth. At any rate, does anyone oppose locating all future Olympics to Greece? And speaking of Atlanta, what of their bid to host a future NCAA wrestling championships event? Why not host them all in Omaha, Nebraska, like the final rounds of the baseball college world series every year? Never mind that our instead hosting the NCAA's in St. Louis from time to time helped inspire Maryville U. to adopt the UNO wrestling team after they were evicted from Omaha. Why don't we relocate 'em all to Omaha to establish unity with baseball? Maybe then the University of Oregon might reinstate wrestling, which it dropped to be able to add baseball while still complying with Title 9 Proportionality... This Stillwater discussion has really inspired some new ideas. How consistent do we aspire to be?

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If this format, qualifiers one weekend, the next weekend being a final four (or maybe final eight), then it should be at the place easiest to get to. That would be a place to which any medium sized air port has direct flights and a place anyone could drive to in one reasonable day (say 10 hours). That would be Chicago. Of course the fact that 3 of the schools are within maybe six hours this year. There is even a 12-15000 seat arena almost within walking distance of O'Hare.

A place that's easy to get to is obviously very important. But what's as important if not more important is the amount of time you give people to plan the trip to get there. I don't care where you're going, it's going to be more expensive to get there on 5 days notice. The basketball final four is a wildly successful event just as is the NCAA D-I wrestling tournament...part of that is simply the fact that they know far in advance where it's going to be and people can plan the trip.

 

Think of the crappiest location the NCAA's has been to in the last 10 years (Detroit?) and tell me, did people still go? Answer to that question is yes. Eventually the final four for wrestling (I personally think it needs to be a field of 8) could turn into a well attended event but they need to allow people the ability to plan their trip. I do not however think it can ever turn into an event like our individual D-I tournament for multiple reasons. The biggest reason is that some people won't plan to go because they don't know if their team will qualify, unlike for the individual portion where people will plan to go because they are fairly certain that their school will qualify at least 1 athlete.

 

Lastly, I think we need to stop comparing wrestling to basketball and football. I say this because those are true team sports...you have multiple players on the court/field at the same time, working together to win that game. Wrestling is a bunch of individuals going out there and doing something by themselves with their result being applied to their teams score. Chris Dardanes isn't passing a ball to Nick Dardanes who then passes to Kevin Steinhaus so he can score.

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Being from the Metro Detroit area I found the Detroit (Auburn Hills) location to be absolutely outstanding. The parking was easy, in and out, along with little to no traffic. I am interested to hear what to you made it so bad? I admit it was not in a downtown setting where you can walk everywhere but is that the only way you plan for going to a high National Caliber event?

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Chicago or St. Louis would be great places to host the event.

 

Known in advance with locations that are easily accesible via air (direct flights from just about anywhere). Ample hotel and transportation infrastructure and knowledgable wrestling fans throughout the area that would likely attend - whether their teams are there or not.

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Being from the Metro Detroit area I found the Detroit (Auburn Hills) location to be absolutely outstanding. The parking was easy, in and out, along with little to no traffic. I am interested to hear what to you made it so bad? I admit it was not in a downtown setting where you can walk everywhere but is that the only way you plan for going to a high National Caliber event?

I wasn't there. But most of the people I know who have been to every one in the last 10 years seemed to say that was the worst. They said that getting a cab was impossible and that you had no choice but to wait because you couldn't walk anywhere. I'm sure it was easy for you if you live there...you know where to go and weren't fighting with others to get the cabs. I also seem to recall them saying there was nothing really close that people could walk to in between sessions, etc.

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coachp: I don't know about J. Paul Guyman, but i'm still around. My name is J. Carl Guymon. I post as JCG, as you can tell. I did post a day or two ago clarifying something the p.a. announcer said in Stillwater on Sunday night. He said it would be Iowa-Minnesota, Illinois vs. Oklahoma State this Sunday. But he added that he was "guesssing." Some people on this board wondered how he knew the pairings 36 hours before the NWCA released them. He was just guessing. I don't think the NWCA reps in attendance heard him, or they might have asked him to retract the comment.

 

Also, for those concerned about getting any live coverage or free coverage. The NWCA arranged last weekend for free video streaming through livesportsvideo.com. Same thing this Sunday. And the Stillwater regional also was accessible through okstate.tv. I think that will be the case again this Sunday. The videocast is live, and it's free.

 

Also, someone on a thread thought the Big 10 Network would have the rights to it. This is an NWCA event, not Big 10, not NCAA, so the NWCA would have the say on who gets to carry it.

 

CoachP, hope you're doing well.

J.

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Is J Paul Guyman still around? Haven't seen him post here for a while.

J. CARL Guymon

 

he announced the Live feed from the OKST - tO$U final

 

and did a fine job of it

 

edit*

 

whoopsie. didn't see you post J.

 

good work on the live feed.

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Detroit area is truly NOTORIOUS for HORRIBLE taxi service, which is a major contributor to why DUI's are so high in the area.... But I guess if being forced to have a rental car is the main reason Detroit was considered a bad location that states just how perfect the other locations are. I never plan a trip without transportation so that inconvenience never occured to me. Thanks for the feedback, I always wondered why people thought it was such a bad location.

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Might Detroit have a reputation among cab drivers as being filled with folks who don't pay for the ride after getting the service? If so then any city (or region of a city) with a similar trait might be worth avoiding when it comes to selecting tourney venues.

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First J. carl will do an outstanding job of announcing on TV, and Don Blasigame will do a great job of announcing for the fans at the national duals finals (I will be in attendance).

 

I've attended most of the recent NCAA tournaments, I think the last one I missed was at State College, because I wasn't going to drive 1 hour each way to get there for the tournament.

 

Indianapolis hands down has the best walkable downtown area that i've been to. I was there for the 2004 Olympic wrestling trials. Why the home of the NCAA hasn't entered a bid for the NCAA wrestling is beyond me.

 

Kansas City was terrible because there were no restaurants within walking distance.

 

Omaha, St. Louis, and Oklahoma City are all excellent. The Palace at Auburn Hills is a very good facility, but you can't walk to many restaurants nearby. Philly will become a lot better when more development occurs near the arena.

 

Oklahoma City will knock your socks off when you attend the 2014 NCAA tournament.

 

$91 million dollar expansion and renovation of the Chesapeake Arena (formerly the Ford Center). This is due to the Oklahoma City Thunder relocating to OKC.

The historic Skirvin Hotel was totally renovated and is managed by Hilton Hotels, so now there is one more major hotel within walking distance of the arena.

Almost all of downtown OKC's sidewalks and streets are nearly redone. The 50-story Devon tower is nearing completion 1.5 million SF, it makes a landmark that you can't miss for navigational purposes.

There are two more limited service hotels under construction in Bricktown.

The construction of an 11-story luxury hotel is due to start this spring.

The construction of I-40's new alignment is nearly done. The east bound lanes are open. West bound lanes will open within 6 months. The existing elevated freeway next to the arena will be torn down. They are already tearing down sections of the old eastbound lanes.

 

Hopefully the new ground level parkway will get built by 2014. It will have a high priority because of the Chesapeake Arena.

 

Broadway Avenue just north of downtown is starting to rival Bricktown in terms of quality restaurants.

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Officially, Okla St has outdrawn MN in avg att in 5 of the last 9 years. And Minnie used the downtown civic arena the only two times they drew over 13k in their history. Great job, nonetheless, by the Gophers but being #1 has always meant a ton for both schools drawing their best crowds. D.Diehl, NCAA Att historian

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Officially, Okla St has outdrawn MN in avg att in 5 of the last 9 years. And Minnie used the downtown civic arena the only two times they drew over 13k in their history. Great job, nonetheless, by the Gophers but being #1 has always meant a ton for both schools drawing their best crowds. D.Diehl, NCAA Att historian

 

 

Holy Cow, Denny Diehl, in Pennsylvania? Might you still publish your terrific annual attendance statistics compilations like you did half a decade ago? If so, where please?

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Might Detroit have a reputation among cab drivers as being filled with folks who don't pay for the ride after getting the service? If so then any city (or region of a city) with a similar trait might be worth avoiding when it comes to selecting tourney venues.
Might there be a subtext to this question? Why would one suspect Detroit might have an inordinant number of dishonest taxi riders?

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Officially, Okla St has outdrawn MN in avg att in 5 of the last 9 years. And Minnie used the downtown civic arena the only two times they drew over 13k in their history. Great job, nonetheless, by the Gophers but being #1 has always meant a ton for both schools drawing their best crowds. D.Diehl, NCAA Att historian

 

Not totally true. The Gophers have had capacity crowds (around 14k) on campus at Williams arena at least twice with Iowa. The event's I went to off campus didn't draw that many.

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Carp: Leadership begins at the top and Detroit's most recent ex-mayor just got out of prison. You didn't know that? Meanwhile, as the industrial base upon which they've based their hopes in Detroit has been so unable to keep pace with innovators worldwide, their local economy isn't particularly strong. Have you looked at crime rates in that city? How do they compare nationally? Somehow I don't think it's the best place to host future NCAA tourneys. I've seen you attack the messengers here before though, and wouldn't put it past you to do so again (for whatever reason it is that motivates you to do so). :roll: But back to the discussion of the selection of (much safer and more wrestling-friendly) Stillwater, Oklahoma...

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The fact that the Chesapeake Energy Arena is in Oklahoma City, not Washington or Baltimore, tells you all that you need to know about the honesty and morality of that company.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Chesapeake Energy is headquartered in OK - near their major natgas/oil acreage in the Anadarko Basin?

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Husker_Du, Old_Marine_Wrestler, Big Apple: thanks for your nice words.

 

I'm going to try to see if we can bounce back and forth Sunday during the semis for the best matchups in each dual, i.e., McDonough-Sanders, Oliver-Futrell, etc. It will be up to the NWCA, but unlike others on this board, I do have some faith in their judgement. I know there was a lot of thought put into the national duals the past few years concerning site, format, etc. There always have been pros and cons to all those things. Not an easy answer.

I guess I do wonder why so many Iowa fans seem to think it's a sin for it to be held outside the state of Iowa. It's been there five years in a row, and I'm sure it will return soon. But if Penn State had been unbeaten at this point and was ranked No. 1 in dual rankings (and as the defending NCAA champion) and was in the N.D. I get the feeling Iowa fans would be screaming if the N.D. finals went to Penn State.

 

Am I wrong on that? Personally, I think the duals fit well on campus. Absolutely love having Division I by itself. The four regionals last week outdrew the average Saturday attendance at UNI, which was around 7,000 or so, with ALL divisions of wrestling being there -- D2, D3, juco, women's, clubs, etc.

 

So it's hard for me to say the new format doesn't work, especially since four regions got to see some of the best wrestling available. I hope in the next few years it's at Cornell, Penn State, Iowa, Minnesota, Ohio, Michigan, Oklahoma, etc., when those states have highly ranked teams.

 

I don't think it's necessary or financially feasible at this point for it to be held in a huge arena like St. Louis, Chicago, etc., would have to offer. And if you put it there, everyone -- not just three teams -- has to travel. At least one team of four gets to stay home under the current format.

 

Just some thoughts and preferences.

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