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Wahawk90

The Problem w/college wrestling

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MMA is popular in Russia. Its also popular in Japan where more than a few great freestylers come from.

 

It's not popular in Russia, Have you ever been there? It's about as popular there as rugby is in the US. Very much a niche sport with little following. Wrestling trounces MMA in popularity, while the reverse is true here in the us. The point is, your logic ignores sample size, one of the most important determinants of whether an argument has statistical value. Yours doesn't.

 

Japan was good at wrestling a long time ago. It has since become a very average country with occasional flashes of its past brilliance (the globally dominant women's program, which generates a negligible amount of MMA talent, excepted). And what do you think the background of Japan's MMA stars often includes? A lot of them wrestled freestyle as part of their training, supporting the point that freestyle is a good base for MMA and might be as good as folkstyle.

 

Again, I am not arguing against folkstyle being the best wrestling style for MMA. What I'm saying is that your comments are not proof that that's the case and are in some cases just not true. There's no statistically valid evidence to point to folkstyle being the dominant style. Not only is the folkstyle sample grossly overweight folkstyle wrestlers versus other styles, it is also the preferred style of the USA, where MMA has the widest opportunities for participation and the largest sample size of participants in the world. Moreover, for all the guys who did well in MMA, there are many more who failed. Some even had top 1% folkstyle pedigrees (e.g. Alan Fried, Cary Kolat, Royce Alger, etc.). So on a % basis, folkstyle may not even stack up favorably to other styles, I don't know.

 

Just curious -- How popular is wrestling in the majority of the Russian population? It looks to me like most of them couldn't care less, but a relatively small minority of them live and breath it.

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C'mon, do ya'll suggesting you need to incentivize the bottom wrestler more not remember at all what being on bottom is like in college?? Basically, being on bottom in division 1 is like being tortured...your back is being bent, you're being repeatedly punched in the face, your humeri are being ground against your rotator cuffs, and out-of-touch fans and coaches are telling your to "just stand up" or even stupider, "you're already out"... Do you honestly think some scoring objective will encourage me more than physical pain and suffering? Top guys are just too good at riding legs and crabs for that rolling-around sit/switch/granby style of olden times to result in anything more than you going to an early shower. This is fundamentally ground-and-pound; the bottom guy is at such a severe disadvantage that often the best thing they can do for themselves is minimize damage. If you want to see something else you have to call them back to their feet at some point.

 

Edit: I want to make it clear that I'm not arguing for or against that, but the idea that guys on bottom just need to try harder or get better on bottom seems silly to me.

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If you call stalling on guys on their feet more in combination with calling stalling on a guy who use cheap stall tactics like sitting on ankles, dropping down to one leg, riding parallel or uses one of many stall tactics you are going to see guys get out from underneath a little easier.

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Just got done reading the article by Andy Hamilton about the lack of action in college wrestling and I got to thinking maybe wrestlers today are just too good.

http://hawkcentral.com/2014/02/12/andy- ... wrestling/

Kids that are 13-14 years old are executing technique that 20 years ago they didn't learn until they went to college. There has been little innovation since the low single and at this point you have heavy weights executing that shot as well as a 125 pounder. I don't know just might thoughts but I would love to hear if others see it the same way that I do.

 

First post of the thread was the best one. I dont think that the way officiating is called now has change wrestling as much as the development and advancement of technique, and defense.

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College only:

 

1) push out worth one point

2) no riding time

3) escapes worth nothing - to the feet if no scoring on the mat after 15 seconds

4) when a score is tied, first wrestler who scored a TD wins - OT only if no takedowns

 

Not trying to start anything, but other than 4), I hate all of those commonly suggested changes.

 

-Push outs are dumb and encourage only to shoot on the leg and not finish: It baffles me why so many like this, until the recent change in Freestyle rules a lot of matches were straight up unwatchable because one shot-pushout-and a whole lot of circling nothing would win the period

Push outs are for fat people and that type of wrestling should be it's own sport, maybe call it SUMO.

 

-The ability to RIDE a guy is underrated and the great equalizer: Isn't it amazing that the best get off the bottom?? My biggest issue is the dropping to an ankle. If you do this in my mind you get some "reaction time" to prove you are using this breakdown/mat return to attack the man from top in an attempt to turn him at some point. Other than that: learn to get out

 

-Escapes that are earned should be awarded: if the top guy elects to go back to nuetral on a whistle start than I would be fine with not giving the point

 

I know many share your feelings but it is funny how loyal fans like different things about the greatest sport.

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What I've been told is that Fs wrestling is mostly popular in the Caucasus regions that produce all those world champions. The rest of Russia is more about hockey.

 

I read on an MMA site that generally speaking wrestling is #1 for the Caucasus athletes. Those who are good but not national team good might go into Sambo, some versions of which are basically MMA with points. These Sambo guys transition to UFC type MMA really well.

 

There are rumours that Gadisov might fight MMA which would be really interesting if true.

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-Push outs are dumb and encourage only to shoot on the leg and not finish: It baffles me why so many like this, until the recent change in Freestyle rules a lot of matches were straight up unwatchable because one shot-pushout-and a whole lot of circling nothing would win the period

Push outs are for fat people and that type of wrestling should be it's own sport, maybe call it SUMO.

 

i never thought that a stepout should be worth the same amount of points as a TD. it still worked OK in freestyle IMO but i think it would great now that a TD is worth twice as much as a stepout. i think its dumb that college wrestling doesnt have a stepout/pushout rule yet we're constantly complaining about people stalling at the edge of the mat.

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