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Rob Koll in a recent interview on the open mat states that, and Im paraphrasing a bit, in a discussion about his son deciding to go to Cornell (congrats to his son btw ...fine school)...he goes on to say how parents live vicariously through their sons wrestling accomplishments. I find it amusing that he is perfectly willing to wine and dine these same "bad" parents for the purpose of recruiting these dysfunctional wrestlers. It's amusing to hear his comments. So because we took my son to evening practices , took him to weekend tournaments, traveled across the country to Tulsa nationals, helped him and guide him through the roller coaster ride of this great sport, sat in the stands or in his corner and cheered him on, helped him with his strength training and try to introduce to fine coaches around the country that he has the nerve to say in an extremely condescending way that we lived "vicariously" through our children. So we should tell our son not to give a 100 percent to the sport...maybe we should also tell our son to not give 100 percent to academics....and to his friendships..Of course their are healthy and unhealthy parent/child relationships but it has nothing to do with teaching them to be above the rest. Their are exceptions ..... but for the most part the kids that did well in elementary tourneys(like tulsa nationals) and the kids that wrestled over the summer are the superstars of college and olympic wrestling today. And most of the parents I have met over the years are fine people who love and care deeply about their children so why Coach Koll do you call these parents out ....and in the meantime you're teams over the years are loaded with these same kids?? Like I said their are exceptions of kids who started wrestling in junior high or high school but these are very rare to find...Nahshon Garrett being one of them

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Rob Koll in a recent interview on the open mat states that, and Im paraphrasing a bit, in a discussion about his son deciding to go to Cornell (congrats to his son btw ...fine school)...he goes on to say how parents live vicariously through their sons wrestling accomplishments. I find it amusing that he is perfectly willing to wine and dine these same "bad" parents for the purpose of recruiting these dysfunctional wrestlers. It's amusing to hear his comments. So because we took my son to evening practices , took him to weekend tournaments, traveled across the country to Tulsa nationals, helped him and guide him through the roller coaster ride of this great sport, sat in the stands or in his corner and cheered him on, helped him with his strength training and try to introduce to fine coaches around the country that he has the nerve to say in an extremely condescending way that we lived "vicariously" through our children. So we should tell our son not to give a 100 percent to the sport...maybe we should also tell our son to not give 100 percent to academics....and to his friendships..Of course their are healthy and unhealthy parent/child relationships but it has nothing to do with teaching them to be above the rest. Their are exceptions ..... but for the most part the kids that did well in elementary tourneys(like tulsa nationals) and the kids that wrestled over the summer are the superstars of college and olympic wrestling today. And most of the parents I have met over the years are fine people who love and care deeply about their children so why Coach Koll do you call these parents out ....and in the meantime you're teams over the years are loaded with these same kids?? Like I said their are exceptions of kids who started wrestling in junior high or high school but these are very rare to find...Nahshon Garrett being one of them

I think he's talking about those parents who pushed their kids too hard and don't let them make their own decisions in life. I didn't read the article so i don't know for sure.

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sorry i meant to say it was a podcast... "pushing" your child can be a negative or a positive thing. I tend to use the word motivate (or make wrestling a privilege not a punishment) type of thing. Same thing could be argued for school work, or manners , or chores. The goal of the parent is to be creative with their child so as to look at wrestling , and pushups, and practices as a fun exciting privilege. Most parents that I have been around use these principals . It was just a blanket statement that Koll makes that bothered me... Instead of saying a negative statement that parents live vicariously through their kids...he had an opportunity to tell parents HOW to be creative and what ways you can motivate your kids to look at wrestling as a fun thing and a privilege. One way i used for my son during his early years was to to (if he was misbehaving) tell him he was not allowed to go to practice with his buddies ,or go to next weekend"s wrestling tournament, and I even told him many times that he wasn't allowed to do his pullups and pushups if he didn't shape up... The result... a self motivated wrestler who looked at wrestling as a fun thing . I have , over the years, used this with other parents and the elementary kids i coach and it works like a charm. The feedback i get is overwhelmingly positive! Does it work all the time... no.. I have some funny stories to tell on how it backfired as well .... LOL

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There is a big difference in pushing your child when they don't want to do it or are not capable of doing it and the kid likes and excelles at the activity. I have three children. The first two were talented and excelled at what they did in school. They both went to top rated colleges and one did wrestle. I pushed them to be the best that they could be.

 

My third child is special needs and I am pushing her to be able to accomplish things that most would take for granted.

 

Sure there are parents that go over the limit and they have problems.

 

I don't think Koll is a dysfunctional parent. I never met him but I knew his father. I wrestled against Penn State in college. Coach Koll Sr. Was a great guy. Everything I have read about his son leads me to believe that Jr. Is the same.

 

We need more parents and coaches like Rob Koll.

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This is such a ridiculous post it's hardly worth commenting on it, but I will.

I don't think you could have taken his words more out of context than you did.

 

The coach was talking about 5-6 yr old kids pushed into competition that aren't ready to handle it at that age. He mentioned kids crying on the mat and that these situations reflect on the parent pushing them into it.

 

He believes they should learn skills but not get into competitions until they are mature enough to handle it.

He's talking about a select group of parents that do this and I agree.

I've seen youth tournaments where the parents are screaming to the kids what to do as they're filming them, while the coach is yelling at them too. Then when they lose they cry and stomp off the mat.

That's the point he was trying to make.

These are the kids that more often (as he states) are out of wrestling by the time they're 16.

 

These are also the kids that are burned out in high school or college.

Please listen again to what he said versus making up some totally twisted view and posting it as a slam to a very good coach.

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Wrestle09, thanks for bringing that intervew up, that was a good one!! :)

 

Just to expand on Rob's comments: Rob noted that William did not wrestle out of the local district until he was in 9th grade (beginning high school). Rob noted that his dad treated him the same way. On the other hand, what Rob does recommend is from whatever age a kid does start wrestling, encouraging it to be fun, and encourage kids to develop athleticism and skills by being involved in other sports as well.

 

Sounds like sound advice to me! :D

 

Also, just another aside, I did like the update on Travis Lee - for those who had not been following, Lee suffered a career ending neck injury competing in Azerbaijan (I think?) several years back. Lee is working for a technology company company in San Francisco now, and doing very well for himself.

 

Comments on Dean were also interesting - no one in the room wants to wrestle him any more, apparantly, he's competative with Dake now!

 

There's some VERY juicy comments about Cael Sanderson and National Duals in there, too. I won't paraphrase here, it's worth checking out the full interview just for that. (see Jason's link above)

 

Good stuff! 8-)

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As has been mentioned earlier, taken wayyy out of context. Pushing your child, taking he or she to practice/tourneys/lifting etc is NOT living vicariously through your athlete. While I don't claim to be an expert on the subject I do have first hand experience..aka "crazy dad" factor through my adolescence.

 

He and my mother did all the traveling and sacrifice, put forth so much time and energy toward the sport which was always appreciated. The competition was definitely not about fun though...it was about winning. Whenever a big win was had my father would suggest that "we did a great job out there, WE did it!" I kept my mouth shut out of respect but thought to myself "I didn't see you on the mat when I was in that battle. I could have used a hand getting out of that power half" . Whenever an upset happened or one didn't "win like he should (by a vast margin or by pin)" the "WE" was suddenly out the window and it was completely the athlete's fault. There was always yelling, berating, etc etc..typical "crazy dad" reaction that usually lasted days to weeks. IMO An athlete raised in this kind of environment can go two ways 1) grow to despise the sport, become unmotivated, usually goes downhill. 2) self-motivated personality overcomes the dysfunctional "motivation" and has his/her own genuine love for the sport. This second scenario is obviously what a college coach wants and will take a chance recruiting an athlete from that environment, and if that athlete can overcome that "motivation" under a coach like Koll they will blossom. I am sure Koll has encountered scenario #1 more than a few times, at least in this case that athlete at least gets a great education, financial aid that can't be taken away (if applicable), and a coach that genuinely cares about him outside of the wrestling room. Heaven forbid I became like my father, my son would be lucky to be recruited by a coach like Rob Koll.

 

I think he's absolutely right in this interview and most youth athletes would benefit greatly from this kind of parenting.

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Rob Koll in a recent interview on the open mat states that, and Im paraphrasing a bit, in a discussion about his son deciding to go to Cornell (congrats to his son btw ...fine school)...he goes on to say how parents live vicariously through their sons wrestling accomplishments. I find it amusing that he is perfectly willing to wine and dine these same "bad" parents for the purpose of recruiting these dysfunctional wrestlers. It's amusing to hear his comments. So because we took my son to evening practices , took him to weekend tournaments, traveled across the country to Tulsa nationals, helped him and guide him through the roller coaster ride of this great sport, sat in the stands or in his corner and cheered him on, helped him with his strength training and try to introduce to fine coaches around the country that he has the nerve to say in an extremely condescending way that we lived "vicariously" through our children. So we should tell our son not to give a 100 percent to the sport...maybe we should also tell our son to not give 100 percent to academics....and to his friendships..Of course their are healthy and unhealthy parent/child relationships but it has nothing to do with teaching them to be above the rest. Their are exceptions ..... but for the most part the kids that did well in elementary tourneys(like tulsa nationals) and the kids that wrestled over the summer are the superstars of college and olympic wrestling today. And most of the parents I have met over the years are fine people who love and care deeply about their children so why Coach Koll do you call these parents out ....and in the meantime you're teams over the years are loaded with these same kids?? Like I said their are exceptions of kids who started wrestling in junior high or high school but these are very rare to find...Nahshon Garrett being one of them

 

Humblebrag.

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Sounds to me like the OP is probably one of those parents they are referring to that is pushing the kid to the limit and that is for them to decide if it is right for the specific kid. I will say that Koll is right on the money about the pushing kids out of the sport, one of my best friends growing up wrestled freestyle all spring and summer, he did not tell his dad that he would rather just work his job and earn some money in the summertime and not go to extra training and Fargo(think he went 7th-11th grade). The kid was a really good wrestler, believe he AA'ed in schoolboys a couple times but just plain was being pushed too hard by his dad to become better. His dad was living through his success and I think it made people assume his dad was a better athlete than he really was which probably ego stroked him. His younger brother hated wrestling with a passion and then some, he used to lose every match, most of the time intentionally and I remember 2 times where he was waving and smiling at his mom when he was getting pinned, he never did not get pinned in freestyle. The dad always was hard on the younger son and told him to be "more like his brother as a wrestler". I don't know what would happened if his dad did not push him so hard and out of it, I personally think he would of been pretty good because he had skills in practice but quit around 6th grade or so, he was successful until about 3rd grade or so. I guess the moral of the story here is that parents should let kids make individual decisions for sports or life activities, just because one brother likes wrestling does not mean the other will. I always bring up one specific case, David Craig in this instance. There was an intermat article about how he wished he could of played soccer, anything, just not wrestling. He will never allow his kids to wrestle. He was the best high school wrestler in the nation in the class of 2006 but was held back and forced to only wrestle. Almost AA'ed as a true freshmen and that was as close as he ever got or cared to get. I am guessing he got his degree and moved on and is being successful at something outside of wrestling.

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Yes i liked most of the interview...He is a well respected college coach but couldn't be more wrong on his view about when to start "fun competition tournaments". 1)This is not russia...where i heard they do start competing( i think) at a later age. 2) There are tournaments every weekend (saturdays...and sadly Sundays) 3) the 5 and 6 year olds are having a blast..going to tournaments . 4) Pretty much all of our high school studs started at around 6 5) the kids that were doing well in youth tournaments (statistically speaking) have not got burned out as coach Koll indicated 6) the kids that start at age 10 or older end up getting burned out from losing(for the most part)...they simply cannot compete with the kids who have 200 live matches under their belts 7)If wrestling is supposed to be fun then why wait..8) we focus on going to tournaments and having fun contests (like who can get the most double legs...or tilts ...or cradles that they recently learned during the week 9) winning and losing is learned at a young age (and yes some cry) they get over it...they also cry in high school , college, and the olympics...10)Cornell is loaded with kids who competed at young ages the Greys, Dake, villalonga and look at the top college teams ..their wrestlers were almost always out at tulsa at a young age...

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Rob Koll in a recent interview on the open mat states that, and Im paraphrasing a bit, in a discussion about his son deciding to go to Cornell (congrats to his son btw ...fine school)...he goes on to say how parents live vicariously through their sons wrestling accomplishments. I find it amusing that he is perfectly willing to wine and dine these same "bad" parents for the purpose of recruiting these dysfunctional wrestlers. It's amusing to hear his comments. So because we took my son to evening practices , took him to weekend tournaments, traveled across the country to Tulsa nationals, helped him and guide him through the roller coaster ride of this great sport, sat in the stands or in his corner and cheered him on, helped him with his strength training and try to introduce to fine coaches around the country that he has the nerve to say in an extremely condescending way that we lived "vicariously" through our children. So we should tell our son not to give a 100 percent to the sport...maybe we should also tell our son to not give 100 percent to academics....and to his friendships..Of course their are healthy and unhealthy parent/child relationships but it has nothing to do with teaching them to be above the rest. Their are exceptions ..... but for the most part the kids that did well in elementary tourneys(like tulsa nationals) and the kids that wrestled over the summer are the superstars of college and olympic wrestling today. And most of the parents I have met over the years are fine people who love and care deeply about their children so why Coach Koll do you call these parents out ....and in the meantime you're teams over the years are loaded with these same kids?? Like I said their are exceptions of kids who started wrestling in junior high or high school but these are very rare to find...Nahshon Garrett being one of them

 

taking your youth wrestler son to tulsa national is the first mistake. assuming coach koll was referencing all parents and not just the ones that are living vicariously is your second.

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Yes i liked most of the interview...He is a well respected college coach but couldn't be more wrong on his view about when to start "fun competition tournaments". 1)This is not russia...where i heard they do start competing( i think) at a later age. 2) There are tournaments every weekend (saturdays...and sadly Sundays) 3) the 5 and 6 year olds are having a blast..going to tournaments . 4) Pretty much all of our high school studs started at around 6 5) the kids that were doing well in youth tournaments (statistically speaking) have not got burned out as coach Koll indicated 6) the kids that start at age 10 or older end up getting burned out from losing(for the most part)...they simply cannot compete with the kids who have 200 live matches under their belts 7)If wrestling is supposed to be fun then why wait..8) we focus on going to tournaments and having fun contests (like who can get the most double legs...or tilts ...or cradles that they recently learned during the week 9) winning and losing is learned at a young age (and yes some cry) they get over it...they also cry in high school , college, and the olympics...10)Cornell is loaded with kids who competed at young ages the Greys, Dake, villalonga and look at the top college teams ..their wrestlers were almost always out at tulsa at a young age...

 

sounds like rationalization. kids don't need to be world beaters at an early age to get good at wrestling. that's something parents and coaches convince themselves to justify the crazy training and competition schedule they keep.

 

more kids who keep a fast pace early end up leaving the sport or under achieve at an older age than the ones that progress slowly.

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Koll's comments are spot on. While the OP may not be one of the parents Koll references (I think he is) there are a ton of them out there.

 

Success in wrestling is largely predicated upon one's coaches. If you have a crap coach you can wrestle a long time and still not be very good. On the other hand if you are an athlete and have great coaching (as Koll's son has in bunches) you can beat kids with much more experience.

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the only way anyone would possibly have a problem with what koll said is if they thought it was an attack on themselves which is crazy bc most people would just assume they were the exception but nope this guy says getting kids to wrestle and travel to national tournaments at 5 years old is what the country needs I am glad they didn't do a little tykes show of his youth club bc it would be a huge black eye to wrestling

 

the point that is worth debating is the mention of the national duals and how all the coaches said they would attend the current national duals if the proposal was defeated and then they went back on their word once they defeated it and how the big school refuse to schedule cornell it really sounds like football where some schools that aren't suppose to be winning get good and then the good old boys wont left them in and try to make it so they cant compete

 

cael says you don't want to go to cornell bc they don't have a tough enough schedule and then the best schools refuse to schedule them bc they don't want a loss to them funny that iowa refused to wrestle northern iowa in the one year that the panthers have a top dual team

 

the point about using tournament rankings to promote duals is dead on penn state keeps saying #1 penn state is hostin #5 but that isn't true it is a lie they can only claim those rankings in tournaments you cant say they are in a dual it is like a marathoner using their marathon ranking in a mile race it is dishonest to use it and not say it doesn't apply to the format of the competition penn state is #2 and Oklahoma state is #7 under the scoring system the fans are turning out to watch

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Koll's comments are spot on. While the OP may not be one of the parents Koll references (I think he is) there are a ton of them out there.

 

The OP referred to the preeminent Tulsa national tournament, the crown jewel of kids wrestling. Definitely an overbearing parent.

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Well I guess I ticked off alot of people by disagreeing with Coach Koll. First off....this is an anonymous board so what gain do I have in stating my opinion. My son is well past his elementary and high school years, and is enjoying the sport in college. We have a great relationship that extends way past the sport of wrestling. So what was my purpose for this post? If I had to do it all over again I would have simply posted something like "how to make young wrestlers enjoy the sport and not have stress"...and not even brought up Coach Koll's name. and using Tulsa nationals is just a point I was trying to make that LIVE wrestling and competition for young wrestlers is not a NEGATIVE thing ... There are things that a coach can teach and things a coach can't teach....and that is the "feel thing" ...I have seen kids do things they were never taught ...basically scrambling , fighting for good position etc etc etc ...I guess Cael Sanderson calls it "play wrestling" ...although it is difficult to teach young kids how to play wrestle LIVE wrestling is the next best thing to learning how to improve their position on the mat. 20 or 30 years ago it wasn't as important as it is now....now (like it or not) kids are wrestling year round , doing freestyle , doing camps, traveling long distances to tournaments etc etc. Look at the results as an example of National youth tournaments ( i used Tulsa as just an example) Look at the names!!! And now look at the college all americans!!!! My argument is fact ...not opinion...do i have to start the arduous process of going through the similarities in names between the two.. Like I said earlier it is so unlikely that a new wrestler at an older age has any chance in competing with the kids that have been competing for years...so rare! Just trying to help and state the facts...really made a mistake in bringing coach Koll's name in to this..i know he means well!!

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Well I guess I ticked off alot of people by disagreeing with Coach Koll. First off....this is an anonymous board so what gain do I have in stating my opinion. My son is well past his elementary and high school years, and is enjoying the sport in college. We have a great relationship that extends way past the sport of wrestling. So what was my purpose for this post? If I had to do it all over again I would have simply posted something like "how to make young wrestlers enjoy the sport and not have stress"...and not even brought up Coach Koll's name. and using Tulsa nationals is just a point I was trying to make that LIVE wrestling and competition for young wrestlers is not a NEGATIVE thing ... There are things that a coach can teach and things a coach can't teach....and that is the "feel thing" ...I have seen kids do things they were never taught ...basically scrambling , fighting for good position etc etc etc ...I guess Cael Sanderson calls it "play wrestling" ...although it is difficult to teach young kids how to play wrestle LIVE wrestling is the next best thing to learning how to improve their position on the mat. 20 or 30 years ago it wasn't as important as it is now....now (like it or not) kids are wrestling year round , doing freestyle , doing camps, traveling long distances to tournaments etc etc. Look at the results as an example of National youth tournaments ( i used Tulsa as just an example) Look at the names!!! And now look at the college all americans!!!! My argument is fact ...not opinion...do i have to start the arduous process of going through the similarities in names between the two.. Like I said earlier it is so unlikely that a new wrestler at an older age has any chance in competing with the kids that have been competing for years...so rare! Just trying to help and state the facts...really made a mistake in bringing coach Koll's name in to this..i know he means well!!

 

It may have just been poor grammar in your second post, but you indicated that you coach elementary kids (I think you meant this in past tense).

 

Anyway, you certainly sparked some anger because a lot of people have a great deal of respect for Coach Koll, and I believe, as others do, that you misinterpreted what he was saying.

 

I've been to plenty of kids wrestling events to know the "crazy dad" that is living vicariously through their son...and to be honest, I've seen quite a few coaches that are doing the same thing! Sure, everybody's competitive, but when you've got a kid that's 5-8 years old, he needs to be out there to have fun, not get yelled at or scolded because he doesn't follow through with a shot or gets pinned. I've seen plenty of kids quit because their parents were too overbearing. It's just like any other sport...it's meant to be fun. If the parent or coach makes it not fun, why would the kid want to continue? We've all seen these parents/coaches that he's talking about...if you haven't, go to any kids tournament next weekend and look for the dad that's screaming from the stands.

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I hate when this topic comes up because people always jump on the band wagon agreeing but lets be honest the best wrestlers in the country regardless of age group all started at a young age. Secondly, as a parent, I would do anything to help my son be successful. I have been around some of these parents and in all most all cases, their kids are high performing students and high performing athletes. Lastly, without some of these parents, I don't think that we would be looking at the growth this sport has had in the past 20 years. These some of these parents have single handily been responsible for financial supporting the foundation of wrestling schools that have become mostly the standard in which the best wrestlers in the country are learning technique. Sometimes, these coaches will pay for an additional coach to be on staff at the local high that have budget constraints. So, lets not feed into a guy that is benefiting from the very thing he says he doesn't like and in the past few years has done more harm than good for the sport.

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I hate when this topic comes up because people always jump on the band wagon agreeing but lets be honest the best wrestlers in the country regardless of age group all started at a young age. Secondly, as a parent, I would do anything to help my son be successful. I have been around some of these parents and in all most all cases, their kids are high performing students and high performing athletes. Lastly, without some of these parents, I don't think that we would be looking at the growth this sport has had in the past 20 years. These some of these parents have single handily been responsible for financial supporting the foundation of wrestling schools that have become mostly the standard in which the best wrestlers in the country are learning technique. Sometimes, these coaches will pay for an additional coach to be on staff at the local high that have budget constraints. So, lets not feed into a guy that is benefiting from the very thing he says he doesn't like and in the past few years has done more harm than good for the sport.

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Godfather...I'm still coaching youth wrestling and I have had the privilege of watching these 6 year olds ( who are hilarious BTW) go to tournaments(yes compete) and develop their skills and continue wrestling all through college! It's how you handle them that's important, and how a coach needs to coach the parents to not stressing out the kids. It is completely unrealistic and nearly impossible to find any wrestler these days or in the last 10 years that "just drill" and go to practice and be held back from going to tournaments (as Koll clearly states) and continue to wrestle in their later years. Please!....someone name these so called mythical kids that he talks about. And for every one that is mentioned I can name 10 that entered tournaments at a young age and appreciate this great sport into their high school years and so many of them wrestling in college. Koll does not go on to say about all the success stories of kids who started young , have great relationships with their parents and coaches, and now he is benefitting (as our all the college coaches) from these so called " bad parents and coaches" who lived vicariously through their kids. I have listened to the podcast 3 times. His message was very clear.."teach kids good sound technique" (good and obvious), "develop athletic skills" (good and obvious), " hold them back from competing" ( ridiculous and doesn't happen in the real world and THIS is my issue with him). In my previous posts I have tried to give some examples of how to make COMPETITION a positive thing ...not a negative thing..hopefully they will help some young dads and coaches to teach their little wrestlers to enjoy the sport. All Koll talks about are the negatives from some crazy, idiotic parents and coaches...He says nothing about how to get kids to compete at an early age and have fun.. I guess I am one of those people who hate to hear problems and complaints without SOLUTIONS. So for those of you who buy in to what Koll says ....I say good luck with the kids because THEY will be the ones who truly will be as he calls it " former wrestlers"

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the only benefit to kids competing at a young age is to get them to win matches against other kids who aren't competing at a young age. it in no way gives a kid an advantage towards their development as an athlete/wrestler/person. it simply gives them a change to win more matches and tournaments.

 

follow a group's progression from kids to high school to college to the international styles. more kids who are accelerated end up quitting or under achieving (compared to their youth success) than those that continue to progress. the kids that leave the sport are simply forgotten when you look at the names of college aa who went to tulsa nationals.

 

compare the kids who start competing early and often to each other. most of them fizzle out. a kid only hates wrestling once and he gone for ever. worse yet they end up hating their dad or coach. too much to soon and it's not worth the risk.

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