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WalterWhite

So no one else is mad that the ref decided that match....

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I don't have a complaint about Villango getting hit for stalling, but I do have a major problem as to when it was called. If the score is tied i would as a referee never make the stalling call that didn't give the wrestler I penalized without giving him sufficient time to setup and execute a decent takedown attempt. This referee decided the match and he shouldn't have. Villango wrestled essentially the same way through the entire match. Had I been refereeing, somewhere between the 1:00 and 1:30 minutes of the first period i'd probably have hit Villango with a stalling call. If he hadn't made a decent attempt in the next 30 seconds I'd have penalized him. Conversely if all Dardenes did was push with an underhook without taking a shot i'd hit him too. However, he did take enough shots he'd probably avoided getting called. He was doing a better job of "acting" like he was attacking.

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I don't have a complaint about Villango getting hit for stalling, but I do have a major problem as to when it was called. If the score is tied i would as a referee never make the stalling call that didn't give the wrestler I penalized without giving him sufficient time to setup and execute a decent takedown attempt. This referee decided the match and he shouldn't have. Villango wrestled essentially the same way through the entire match. Had I been refereeing, somewhere between the 1:00 and 1:30 minutes of the first period i'd probably have hit Villango with a stalling call. If he hadn't made a decent attempt in the next 30 seconds I'd have penalized him. Conversely if all Dardenes did was push with an underhook without taking a shot i'd hit him too. However, he did take enough shots he'd probably avoided getting called. He was doing a better job of "acting" like he was attacking.

 

Agreed, but refs should be able to tell the different between "acting" and real wrestling.

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I don't have a complaint about Villango getting hit for stalling, but I do have a major problem as to when it was called. If the score is tied i would as a referee never make the stalling call that didn't give the wrestler I penalized without giving him sufficient time to setup and execute a decent takedown attempt. This referee decided the match and he shouldn't have. Villango wrestled essentially the same way through the entire match. Had I been refereeing, somewhere between the 1:00 and 1:30 minutes of the first period i'd probably have hit Villango with a stalling call. If he hadn't made a decent attempt in the next 30 seconds I'd have penalized him. Conversely if all Dardenes did was push with an underhook without taking a shot i'd hit him too. However, he did take enough shots he'd probably avoided getting called. He was doing a better job of "acting" like he was attacking.

 

Brutal spelling of Villalonga's name aside, I totally agree. This is why I had no problem with the first call but thought the second call was BS.

 

This is especially the case because I believe the same ref did not hit Villalonga for stalling even once during the Maple match. I thought he deserved at least a warning there, but nothing in regulation or OT.

 

Completely inconsistent and absolutely the worst time to call the second one during the Dardanes match.

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I don't have a complaint about Villango getting hit for stalling, but I do have a major problem as to when it was called. If the score is tied i would as a referee never make the stalling call that didn't give the wrestler I penalized without giving him sufficient time to setup and execute a decent takedown attempt. This referee decided the match and he shouldn't have. Villango wrestled essentially the same way through the entire match. Had I been refereeing, somewhere between the 1:00 and 1:30 minutes of the first period i'd probably have hit Villango with a stalling call. If he hadn't made a decent attempt in the next 30 seconds I'd have penalized him. Conversely if all Dardenes did was push with an underhook without taking a shot i'd hit him too. However, he did take enough shots he'd probably avoided getting called. He was doing a better job of "acting" like he was attacking.

 

Brutal spelling of Villalonga's name aside, I totally agree. This is why I had no problem with the first call but thought the second call was BS.

 

This is especially the case because I believe the same ref did not hit Villalonga for stalling even once during the Maple match. I thought he deserved at least a warning there, but nothing in regulation or OT.

 

Completely inconsistent and absolutely the worst time to call the second one during the Dardanes match.

 

I also think that everyone is forgetting that the call came directly as Villalonga was scoring. Maybe he called stalling a second before, but it seems a little odd that as Villalonga is about to reach for the second ankle the match is stopped, and Dardanes wins. It was crap.

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Weird that V was scoring yet received no points? He was in on Dardanes leg but he was not close to scoring especially with short time remaining. Keep saying he was scoring though if it helps the conspiracy theory.

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Wow, just watched the match on BTN. That was worse than the Beitz call. That was a very evenly matched performance by both wrestlers. The fact that a ref finished that match on a random stall call is an injustice to the sport. Let the wrestlers decide the match

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Agree with the stall call. Surprised to see it in overtime. There's been a frustrating trend of not calling stalling this season. So, I was actually pleased to see a ref call it. Now if I was a Cornell fan, I'd probably be livid like WalterWhite.

 

I agree that pushing isn't necessarily offense, but it sure is more offensive than letting someone else push you around for seven minutes. Try pushing back or circling or attacking. All are better options. So, I don't buy that as an excuse to back up the whole match then try to blame the other guy.

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Villalonga should be mad that the ref decided that match. He should be mad at himself.

 

We complain when refs don't call stalling. Then we complain when they do.

 

Gable always said, "Don't leave it up to the ref." The way to avoid it is by initiating more action and scoring more points. Villalonga left it up to the ref, and he paid for it.

 

Was it a good call or a bad call? Who cares? May as well complain about who won a ball grab in a 2012 freestyle match.

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The match was evenly wrestled. Villalonga is a counter wrestler, and was in on several attempts. There was 11 seconds left in OT and a scramble was occurring. I am not a Cornell fan. It just sucks for the sport to have calls like that. Can you imagine a non wrestling fan watching that match & you then have to explain why one guy suddenly won.

 

Dumb call, unless you are rooting for Minny...then it';s a good call.

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First of all, stalling is not a judgment call. The rule book is very specific about how the refs should interpret it. Thank God the ref had the balls to make the right call. There should be no such thing that the ref not make the right call because it is overtime. We should always reward the more aggressive wrestler. For the record he refs always decide the match because sometimes they play favorites as in the case of Dt and his parallel riding or how fast they call a stalemate...which is judgment on the part of the ref. Again, we should commend the ref for making the right call.

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Pushing is not offense. Any real discussion of more "enforcement" of stalling needs to include a discussion of the new Iowa style (which the Dardanes have been known to use on more than one occasion)- push, push, whine (for a stall call).

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First of all, stalling is not a judgment call. The rule book is very specific about how the refs should interpret it. Thank God the ref had the balls to make the right call. There should be no such thing that the ref not make the right call because it is overtime. We should always reward the more aggressive wrestler. For the record he refs always decide the match because sometimes they play favorites as in the case of Dt and his parallel riding or how fast they call a stalemate...which is judgment on the part of the ref. Again, we should commend the ref for making the right call.

 

By definition, stalling is a judgment call. Clearly you did not attend the university you back.

 

Dardanes pushed and took half shots most of the match - hardly more "aggressive". The new Iowa style is killing wrestling.

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The call was made just as Vil was making the shot. NOT after he made the shot. Yes dardanes was doing a LOT of pushing out of bounds only..Don't care much for that. But, with that being said with dar coming forward it should give vil a chance to set something up to get offense going......all match he chose not to.

I would rather have guys bitching about a ref calling stalling than NOT calling stalling....IMO it was a good call.Just looked a little crazy because you couldn't see on TV exactly WHEN it was called as the ref was mostly out of the camera screen.

I think a LOT of people think it was a bogus call because stalling has been called so little that when it is called people are going to bitch.

I KNOW that the refs have been instructed to get with it and call stalling.

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We complain when refs don't call stalling. Then we complain when they do.

 

Exactly. Either guys have to be trying to score or they do not, but you can't have it both ways.

 

The only thing "bad" about that call was that it's so against the grain from what we've become used to seeing. If every referee truly just started calling stalling when they see it, the wrestlers would adjust very quickly and start being more aggressive.

 

But we, as a sport, have conditioned guys to know that stalling WON'T be called to decide a match, so they know as long as it's tied, they don't have to worry about stalling. Well, this referee changed direction and personally, I thought it was a call that was long overdue. Only 1 guy was trying to win that match in overtime. Villalonga was trying to get to the tiebreaker and win by riding.

 

My quote on Twitter was "if you like seeing matches like Perry/Brown in last year's NCAA Finals, then you're mad about this call." Personally, the less tiebreaker matches I see the better.

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tirapell, fair enough.

 

But there's still the issue of complete lack of consistency. It's one thing if this ref was the one guy in the country who literally called stalling exactly when he saw it. But he wasn't even consistent in the same event and even in the same dual, let alone the same match.

 

I think it's as fair to criticize refs for calling stalling inconsistently as it is to criticize them for not calling stalling at all. It's more nuanced than just having it both ways as fans, as you suggest.

 

How do you think Kendric Maple fans feel? Their guy lost a bout to the same exact wrestler using the same exact match strategy without getting dinged. How is that fair?

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until we can get robots to call stalling "properly", it will always be a judgement call made by humans. instituting a stepout rule would remove quite a bit of the subjectivity in that judgement call.

 

you can prefer the current stall call system to a stepout rule but from watching international matches it seems pretty clear to me what the better system is.

 

at least with regards to having a stepout rule or not. the whole 30 second shot clock thing is a different matter.

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