wrestlingnerd 2,585 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 May be old news, but I don't think I saw a definitive commitment to compete from Herbert until I saw the Flo interview in which he mentioned that he will likely skip the US Open but show up for WTT. I am rooting for Herbert and think he can win it now that he is rested and his shoulder has had time to heal properly. I think he is our best shot at a medal at the weight, whether he wins the spot or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRyan2012 343 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 This is awesome news. Far and away our best chance to medal in the US unless Cael returns but that talk appears over for good. He is at the age now where we have to keep Jake healthy through 2016 unless a new stud appears. Our current crop, Gavin, Foster, Reader are a step behind medal contention. Great to hear this is confirmed! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2td3nf 536 Report post Posted February 26, 2014 I sort of had a feeling that Herbert would return, especially after seeing him training in the Cliff Keen commercials on BTN. Good to have him healthy and back on the mat. How does it go? Steel sharpens steel, or something like that. This can only help Team USA. (I'm still in awe looking back on his bracket when he won a World silver. Some huge names in there.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
de4856 359 Report post Posted February 27, 2014 Well I hope the Herbert is competing. I do think he will have his hands full with our current crop of stars like Keddy, Foster, Reader, and Gavin. If Herbert can prevail at the trials and move on to the Worlds he needs to have some new moves in his arsenal. I think he has been heavily scouted by the other countries, so if he doesn't change it up some, I don't believe he will be able to do much at the Worlds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRyan2012 343 Report post Posted February 27, 2014 If he is healthy he will beat these guys easy. He has beaten all of them many times already and has one loss to Gavin in a series of 3. He is the heavy favorite. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
de4856 359 Report post Posted February 28, 2014 Well, Jake Herbert has been the best in this weight class for the last couple of years ( except for Cael), but I think the new guys, Keddy, Foster, and Reader, are coming into their own, and I think Jake is no longer a sure thing. Maybe we shall get a glimpse of things to come, here in the next few months. Whoever emerges from this dog fight, I hope they can then turn that into a Senior World Medal or better yet, a title. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hubbard 426 Report post Posted February 28, 2014 If he is healthy he will beat these guys easy. He has beaten all of them many times already and has one loss to Gavin in a series of 3. He is the heavy favorite. I'm not so sure. He can be healthy as a horse, but what kind of wrestling shape (not just shape) will he be in? How will he adjust to the new rules? How hungry will he be? Will a step have been lost? We all age differently. I wish him all the best, I think he is FANTASTIC for the sport. He and Hrovat are guys who will keep this sport in the Olympics down the road or die trying. I know a guy named Jon Reader who will thrive on being told that Herbert will beat him easily though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRyan2012 343 Report post Posted February 28, 2014 I hate to say this cause ALL the guys want to make the team at a very wide open 86k but Reader does appear the most hungry. The guy is intense during workouts and wrestles ever match hardcore to the end regardless if he is winning or losing. If anybody knocks off Herbert I hope it is Reader. The guy works amazingly hard. I ove Gavin and his story of how he rose to the top but he matches up horribly against the international guys and is way undersized now especially at the new weight of 189.75. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
de4856 359 Report post Posted February 28, 2014 I agree with the fact that Reader is very hungry. I think though he has a flaw in his game which is when guys get in on him he goes for the chest lock. Yes he has been able to convert with the chest from time to time, on lesser opponents, but I don't think it will work on the international studs. I would like him to fight off the attacks a different way. Maybe head and hip pressure. I also agree that Gavin, for whatever reason just can't seemed to do much internationally, and now the weight of this class has gone up a little it would seem to be another disadvantage for him. I really think our future stars in this class is going to be Reader, Foster, and Keddy. But only time will tell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flwrestler14 0 Report post Posted February 28, 2014 Herbert wins it easily. I think the time off has been great for him and we will see the best Herbert we've seen in a long time. Chris Perry is another stud young gun and don't forget about Ruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrestlingnerd 2,585 Report post Posted March 1, 2014 First, Herbert is 28, about five years older than the redshirt seniors who'll graduate this year. That's hardly "old." Second, even if he is older than this year's college seniors, he took two years off. There's a big difference between a 28 year old who has been wrestling at the highest levels for four consecutive years immediately after a five-year college grind from hell and one who has been resting his body for a couple of years right after peaking for the Olympics. Also, he is going to be skipping the US Open to show up as fresh as possible for the WTT. Finally, the extra 5 lbs is going to help Herbert. It is easier for a very athletic wrestler like Herbert to move up in weight, and Herbert has both the height and the athleticism to do it better than most. I can't think of another guy at the weight who benefits more from the extra weight. I'm with those expecting Herbert back on top. We're forgetting how good he is because he hasn't been in the spotlight for a couple of years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
de4856 359 Report post Posted March 1, 2014 Well, Herbert May well come out on top at the WTT. And I don't have a problem with that. I am just hoping that he has a new wrinkle or two in his game, because he will need it at the Worlds. I am worried that he has been scouted heavily, and without some new attacks he will not prevail at the Worlds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrestlingnerd 2,585 Report post Posted March 1, 2014 Well, Herbert May well come out on top at the WTT. And I don't have a problem with that. I am just hoping that he has a new wrinkle or two in his game, because he will need it at the Worlds. I am worried that he has been scouted heavily, and without some new attacks he will not prevail at the Worlds. He may have been scouted, but what are the chances that active international guys have been drilling specifically for Herbert when he's been out of the scene for two years? I'd say, zero. I don't think Herbert needs to change that much to do well. He just needs to show up at his best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
armspin 257 Report post Posted March 1, 2014 Herbert is an old school wrestler who is always looking to score and loves to scramble. He scores a ton of point but gives up too many: his wild "rolling around" matches are also hard to score sometimes and lead to questionable calls as in the Olympics. When he won his silver medal he wrestled great, but also wide open opponents who were willing to scramble with him, and Herberta great cardio and top offender helped him come out on top. In tournaments where he hadn't done so well other guys have capitalized on his openings and picked him apart a bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
armspin 257 Report post Posted March 1, 2014 Should be top offense, stupid auto correct. Btw are Herbert's WC matches still online somewhere? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alwayswrestling 192 Report post Posted March 1, 2014 Herbert may be a slight favorite but IMO is not a heavy favorite. I did not think he dominated at the Olympic trials when he won over Paulsen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dsnc471 25 Report post Posted March 1, 2014 In general I think the current rules with cumulative scoring favor Herbert because of his conditioning, but let's not forget that when he beat Gadisov in the semis of 2009, he would have lost had the scoring been based on cumulative points. Even though there are unlikely to be current international opponents that have scouted Herbert, if his style hasn't changed (and we have no reason to believe it has) then the scouting is actually pretty easy. Watch out for the swing singles, and if you can stop those, then he doesn't have any other offense. Also remember how easily Cael beat Herbert in 2011. Granted Cael is a legend, but then Cael himself had a tough time at Worlds, losing in a sloppy and lopsided manner to Sharifov and then losing a close but fairly uninspired match to Saritov. Herbert may be favored to make the US team, but he's not the clear favorite, and he is definitely not a guaranteed medal contender. But I like him a lot and I hope he can pull something off like in 2009. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crusader2017 1 Report post Posted March 12, 2014 Was fortunate enough to meet Mr. Herbert outside the Rutgers Wrestling room about two weeks ago. He was training with some very talented Rutgers HWTs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GranbyTroll 430 Report post Posted March 13, 2014 Who are the other top 84kg guys? It seems like a loaded weight with: Keith Gavin Clayton Foster Jon Reader Ed Ruth Jake Herbert Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrestlingnerd 2,585 Report post Posted March 13, 2014 Who are the other top 84kg guys? It seems like a loaded weight with: Keith Gavin Clayton Foster Jon Reader Ed Ruth Jake Herbert Cam Simaz has wrestled both 96 kg and 84 kg, so the new 86kg weight class is perfect for him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
de4856 359 Report post Posted March 14, 2014 Aren't we forgetting about Keddy, as one of our top guys at 84? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrestlingphish 639 Report post Posted March 14, 2014 Aren't we forgetting about Keddy, as one of our top guys at 84? Keddy is very overlooked. He has made the finals I believe at the last couple international tournaments he has wrestled in. Took 2nd in the challenge tournament at the Trials last year losing to Foster (who has his number as of late) and blanked Reader (the OTC's golden boy) 5-0 as well there. He is built like a brick sh*thouse but is extremely explosive. No one is going to push him around the mat that's for sure. He has beaten just about everyone at this weight not named Gavin or Herbert at some point in the last 18 months. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
de4856 359 Report post Posted March 16, 2014 Clayton Foster looked good today, and beat a quality Iranian. Jake Herbert May have his hands full at the WTT. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
armspin 257 Report post Posted March 16, 2014 Foster knocks off Olympic medallist Lashgari afrer teaching Olympic medallist Mashgarvilli last year. He does have some losses against lesser opponents also but right now I think he's the man at 86. In fact I think he'll win the trials. Might wrestle Aldatov at the World Cup as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
de4856 359 Report post Posted March 17, 2014 Foster beat Aldatov, tonight. He had himself a couple of nice days here at the World Cup. I think the ante just went up for Mr. Herbert. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
