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what will rob koll do with his kid

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will his son take a year off and go to community college like a bunch of their guys so they can get the redshirt or will he want him to start his academics at cornell

 

what does it say to parents if he doesn't have his kid do what he tells other parents to do with their kids

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He'll do what's best for his son, like any other recruit. What's right for one is not right for the other.

 

If he's ready to contend for an individual title and there is no one else in that is in serious contention for an individual title, then he go straight into school and on the roster (see Nickerson and Dake). If he's not quite ready competitively, he can get some classes out of the way at the community college or do whatever he sees fit.

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He'll do what's best for his son, like any other recruit. What's right for one is not right for the other.

 

If he's ready to contend for an individual title and there is no one else in that is in serious contention for an individual title, then he go straight into school and on the roster (see Nickerson and Dake). If he's not quite ready competitively, he can get some classes out of the way at the community college or do whatever he sees fit.

 

It really hurts me to agree with anything Scribe has to offer, but Koll will do what is best for his kid. I have no problem with Koll doing what is best for his kid. His first priority as a grown man and father, IMO is to be the best darn father he can be.

 

With that all said, I have never gotten the impression Koll does not do what he believes is best for his athletes.

Just goes to show, when Scribe wants to be he can be reasonable. :D

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At the end of the day, isnt a diploma from Cornell the same whether or not the kid takes a "year off" after high school?

Sure, but a "year off" and a year at community college seem different to me. It's one thing to take a year off to travel, work for a nonprofit, or just work to save money for college. It's another to spend a year getting academic credit at a local community college. I wonder how many Harvard or Penn wrestlers have spent their freshman year at a JUCO. My guess is zero.

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At the end of the day, isnt a diploma from Cornell the same whether or not the kid takes a "year off" after high school?

Sure, but a "year off" and a year at community college seem different to me. It's one thing to take a year off to travel, work for a nonprofit, or just work to save money for college. It's another to spend a year getting academic credit at a local community college. I wonder how many Harvard or Penn wrestlers have spent their freshman year at a JUCO. My guess is zero.

 

I agree with Alwayswrestling (who cares??), but it's interesting that you bring up those two schools specifically, both of which I follow. I am almost sure that both those schools have had wrestlers take a year off and train at FLWC. Caleb Richardson is one, and I cannot remember the name of the Harvard kid.

 

Either way, if other Ivies had this kind of setup, which is definitely a big advantage for Cornell among Ivies, I am sure other wrestlers would do it. It's basically a redshirt year and thus quite appealing to a lot of guys.

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At the end of the day, isnt a diploma from Cornell the same whether or not the kid takes a "year off" after high school?

Sure, but a "year off" and a year at community college seem different to me. It's one thing to take a year off to travel, work for a nonprofit, or just work to save money for college. It's another to spend a year getting academic credit at a local community college. I wonder how many Harvard or Penn wrestlers have spent their freshman year at a JUCO. My guess is zero.

 

I agree with Alwayswrestling (who cares??), but it's interesting that you bring up those two schools specifically, both of which I follow. I am almost sure that both those schools have had wrestlers take a year off and train at FLWC. Caleb Richardson is one, and I cannot remember the name of the Harvard kid.

 

Either way, if other Ivies had this kind of setup, which is definitely a big advantage for Cornell among Ivies, I am sure other wrestlers would do it. It's basically a redshirt year and thus quite appealing to a lot of guys.

 

I agree completely wrestlingnerd. My only request is we start calling those kids from Cornell redshirt freshman(Realbuto, Palacio, etc).Working out in the Cornell Room for almost a year and a half before you start you freshman year is a huge benefit. Don't call them freshman in the same conversation as a kid like Retherford.

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" My only request is we start calling those kids from Cornell redshirt..."

 

But they're not redshirts. They are "deferred admission" which has completely different connotations. We tend to use the term "greyshirt" in reference to such guys, if you really need to find a word for it. I do agree, though, that when they do officially enroll it's different from a "true freshman".

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Ok, I'm good with "greyshirts" but where did that name come from(just curious)? Doesn't it seem like whether it's "greyshirts" or "redshirts", it's just a matter of semantics? We still have kids that have a year of training/preparation for a Division I program. For the record, I'm all for it. I see nothing wrong with it. I guess its similar to Navy and Army Prep schools. When they get to Navy, they are just freshman, soph, etc. They are never referred to as redshirts but in actuality, they really are.

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Ok, I'm good with "greyshirts" but where did that name come from(just curious)? Doesn't it seem like whether it's "greyshirts" or "redshirts", it's just a matter of semantics? We still have kids that have a year of training/preparation for a Division I program. For the record, I'm all for it. I see nothing wrong with it. I guess its similar to Navy and Army Prep schools. When they get to Navy, they are just freshman, soph, etc. They are never referred to as redshirts but in actuality, they really are.

 

The main difference is that a "redshirt" is actually enrolled in school, and taking classes - the "deferred admission" means the recruit is not yet enrolled, and not on financial aid. It's sort of the same as far as NCAA eligability is concerned, but there is a big diffenence with respect to the Ivy League policy. Similar with a "leave of absence" which can be taken after matriculation - the student/athlete pretty much takes a semester or year off.

 

Somebody - I believe it was Pinnum - posted a link a while back to a webpage from Penn, that was about the best explanation of the whole Ivy stance on redshirts that I have seen. The simplest way to explain it - you are allowed 4 years in school. You can defer admission, you can take a break, but basically you have 4 years of applied time in the University to graduate. This, incidentally, applies to all students, not just athletes.

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Cornell supports a 5th year in the university, but you have to have an academic purpose for doing so. Changing majors, etc. The concept of sitting out a semester is not a universal reality of certain Cornell wrestlers who have been hanging around the program for their full NCAA clock.

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At the end of the day, isnt a diploma from Cornell the same whether or not the kid takes a "year off" after high school?

Sure, but a "year off" and a year at community college seem different to me. It's one thing to take a year off to travel, work for a nonprofit, or just work to save money for college. It's another to spend a year getting academic credit at a local community college. I wonder how many Harvard or Penn wrestlers have spent their freshman year at a JUCO. My guess is zero.

 

There's no mandate that you have to take community college courses during your greyshirt year, wrestlers just do it because it's helpful. At the end of the day all it really does is let them get a few general requirements out of the way (at an extremely low cost) and enables them to take more interesting courses right off the bat once they officially enroll at cornell. They spend 4 years taking courses at Cornell either way.

 

 

Also, as to your other remark, both harvard and penn have had "greyshirts."

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corey janzten took a year off between his soph and jr year at harvard....still graduating with a degree from harvard.... who gives a s**t, find something more important in the world argue about like abortion (jokes)

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Cornell supports a 5th year in the university, but you have to have an academic purpose for doing so. Changing majors, etc. The concept of sitting out a semester is not a universal reality of certain Cornell wrestlers who have been hanging around the program for their full NCAA clock.

Same goes for UPenn. A case that comes to mind is when returning all-american Rick Springman was allowed an in-school deferral year as an upperclassman, in order to take a mandatory (for his MechEng major) robotics class with a daily lab that directly conflicted with wrestling practice.

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I agree completely wrestlingnerd. My only request is we start calling those kids from Cornell redshirt freshman(Realbuto, Palacio, etc).Working out in the Cornell Room for almost a year and a half before you start you freshman year is a huge benefit. Don't call them freshman in the same conversation as a kid like Retherford.

Request is denied.

No different than when kids spend their post senior year at Blair, Sem, or even a military academy prep.

 

Most HS kids spend their career training at the local OTC. The game has changed and the recent trend in freshman success proves that the red shirt/grey shirt/tshirt really isn't the advantage it was in the traditional sense.

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I agree completely wrestlingnerd. My only request is we start calling those kids from Cornell redshirt freshman(Realbuto, Palacio, etc).Working out in the Cornell Room for almost a year and a half before you start you freshman year is a huge benefit. Don't call them freshman in the same conversation as a kid like Retherford.

Request is denied.

No different than when kids spend their post senior year at Blair, Sem, or even a military academy prep.

 

Most HS kids spend their career training at the local OTC. The game has changed and the recent trend in freshman success proves that the red shirt/grey shirt/tshirt really isn't the advantage it was in the traditional sense.

 

That is a silly thing to say when so many kids are redshirted or in Cornell's case held out a year to train and improve. Sure there may be some kids like Dake and Rutherford that are ready to go out of the gate but you also have guys like Taylor and Dean who used their year of training and competition without using any eligibility to make big improvements.

 

There is a HUGE difference between a kid that was wrestling high school kids less than a year ago and a kid that has been wrestling men for over a year.

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Request denied (further). Ivy League does not recognize the red shirting system.

 

yeah redshirting is more demanding than what the community college kids do that wrestle for cornell sure makes the transition a lot easier to take two classes with average high school kids and just focus on wrestling

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living off campus instead of dorms with meal plans, taking classes without the academic support & generally learning to fend for one's self without the structure that many universities provide for freshmen athletes develops a lot of immeasurable skills that a traditional redshirt experience does not. The change of pace from the national competition and rigorous year round training is another benefit to the "ivy redshirt" year.

Its 100% within the rules, is widely known in the wrestling community and helps kids get more out of their college experience. I would have jumped at the chance to do this if I were 12 years younger and good enough to get a look from a Cornell, UPenn, etc.

 

the greyshirt where D1 football players enroll in January but only take 6 hours to remain "part time" students to prevent the start of their 5 year clock has become the norm rather than the exception in the big football conferences.

 

Rameses

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