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Stallgado

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But he just got entirely sucked into Delgado's game plan in this match and had no plan to help him win the match.

 

Same thing with McIntosh in the Heflin match - no plan. Hang around, have the coaches bait the refs and pray for a stalling call.

 

To be fair, what exactly were his options?

 

I just think Delgado is a mismatch. Mega needs to tie up to be at his best, but Delgado can be just as effective from a distance. How do you wrestle a guy who is quicker than you from the feet, has better footwork and can move around as quickly as he can shoot in on you if you try to close the gap, and can beat you on the mat? I'd be down wrestling on one knee too to try to neutralize his speed and length too.

 

As for McIntosh, Heflin knew exactly what he needed to do to win: beat MM on the mat, where he has a significant advantage. I guess McIntosh could've shot more, but it's not like Heflin is easy to score on. Even Ed Ruth wasn't exactly lighting him up back when he was at 174.

 

I don't think either guy could've done that much better with a different strategy.

 

No problem with him tying up - it's tying and burning time on the edge of the mat that I took issue with. Either shove Delgado out on the edge or simply refuse to follow him to the edge. Quit following him and quit tying up and burning clock on the edge where you have zero chance to score.

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No problem with him tying up - it's tying and burning time on the edge of the mat that I took issue with. Either shove Delgado out on the edge or simply refuse to follow him to the edge. Quit following him and quit tying up and burning clock on the edge where you have zero chance to score.

 

I still don't see how else he could've wrestled him. It's not like Delgado sits there on the edge waiting for Megaludis. He takes the match there through motion. Why can he do this? Because Megaludis needs to tie up to be most effective, while Delgado doesn't, which frees him up to take the match wherever he wants. I suppose an alternative would be to just sit there, not chase Delgado and refuse to engage. But then, who's stalling, the guy in motion or the guy standing still?

 

I just don't think he has that many options because Delgado is that good and can move better than just about anyone in the country at any weight. Megaludis looks lead-footed in comparison.

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But he just got entirely sucked into Delgado's game plan in this match and had no plan to help him win the match.

 

Same thing with McIntosh in the Heflin match - no plan. Hang around, have the coaches bait the refs and pray for a stalling call.

 

To be fair, what exactly were his options?

 

I just think Delgado is a mismatch. Mega needs to tie up to be at his best, but Delgado can be just as effective from a distance. How do you wrestle a guy who is quicker than you from the feet, has better footwork and can move around as quickly as he can shoot in on you if you try to close the gap, and can beat you on the mat? I'd be down wrestling on one knee too to try to neutralize his speed and length too.

 

As for McIntosh, Heflin knew exactly what he needed to do to win: beat MM on the mat, where he has a significant advantage. I guess McIntosh could've shot more, but it's not like Heflin is easy to score on. Even Ed Ruth wasn't exactly lighting him up back when he was at 174.

 

I don't think either guy could've done that much better with a different strategy.

 

No problem with him tying up - it's tying and burning time on the edge of the mat that I took issue with. Either shove Delgado out on the edge or simply refuse to follow him to the edge. Quit following him and quit tying up and burning clock on the edge where you have zero chance to score.

 

My criticism of McIntosh is that at least Heflin had a plan. McIntosh simply has to score takedowns to win that match, as you point out, because Heflin is the better mat wrestler. And scoring on Heflin is tough. But McIntosh really seemed to have no idea how he was even going to try to attempt to score on Heflin. McIntosh just didn't seem to trust his offense, which is really a tactical failing more than a strategic one.

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No problem with him tying up - it's tying and burning time on the edge of the mat that I took issue with. Either shove Delgado out on the edge or simply refuse to follow him to the edge. Quit following him and quit tying up and burning clock on the edge where you have zero chance to score.

 

I still don't see how else he could've wrestled him. It's not like Delgado sits there on the edge waiting for Megaludis. He takes the match there through motion. Why can he do this? Because Megaludis needs to tie up to be most effective, while Delgado doesn't, which frees him up to take the match wherever he wants. I suppose an alternative would be to just sit there, not chase Delgado and refuse to engage. But then, who's stalling, the guy in motion or the guy standing still?

 

I just don't think he has that many options because Delgado is that good and can move better than just about anyone in the country at any weight. Megaludis looks lead-footed in comparison.

 

In the situation, the guy running is stalling. You're not setting the other guy up if he isn't following you. You have no obligation to follow him. Also, my point is that Mega can't score on the edge, so he shouldn't stay there and permit Delgado to run time off the clock hugging on the edge. Shove Delgado off, stop the clock and get back to the middle. I mean, I watched Gable-era wrestlers do this to Okie State for decades. It's not rocket science.

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All this talk about Delgado being so superior to Mega ... these two have wrestled 2x this year. I watched both matches, and I am going off of memory which sometimes is faulty, but has Delgado gotten even one take down against Mega?

 

He has more wins when it matters.

 

I don't see anyone saying the gap is a mile wide, but there is a gap, which makes Delgado superior. I think the key is Delgado can make Megaludis wrestle they way Delgado wants Megaludis to wrestle, and the reverse is not true. Like I said, I think that's the case because Delgado is happy to take it to the mat and from the feet, he has a more varied attack that he can set up (or not!) through better motion. Not a huge difference, but enough to win.

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I think most of this thread shows that Delgado has made his NCAA living off the graces of the ref's inability to make both wrestlers "wrestle"! I would like to see how many times Delgado has been called for stalling and how many more most think he should have been called for.

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All this talk about Delgado being so superior to Mega ... these two have wrestled 2x this year. I watched both matches, and I am going off of memory which sometimes is faulty, but has Delgado gotten even one take down against Mega?

 

He has more wins when it matters.

 

I don't see anyone saying the gap is a mile wide, but there is a gap, which makes Delgado superior. I think the key is Delgado can make Megaludis wrestle they way Delgado wants Megaludis to wrestle, and the reverse is not true. Like I said, I think that's the case because Delgado is happy to take it to the mat and from the feet, he has a more varied attack that he can set up (or not!) through better motion. Not a huge difference, but enough to win.

 

Not so sure this is true. Delgado used to shoot and get the t/d on Nico, but Nico adjusted and Delgado doesn't even take serious shots on Nico anymore. It is all counter wrestling now.

 

The difference this past weekend was the grab ankle ride in OT.

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No problem with him tying up - it's tying and burning time on the edge of the mat that I took issue with. Either shove Delgado out on the edge or simply refuse to follow him to the edge. Quit following him and quit tying up and burning clock on the edge where you have zero chance to score.

 

I still don't see how else he could've wrestled him. It's not like Delgado sits there on the edge waiting for Megaludis. He takes the match there through motion. Why can he do this? Because Megaludis needs to tie up to be most effective, while Delgado doesn't, which frees him up to take the match wherever he wants. I suppose an alternative would be to just sit there, not chase Delgado and refuse to engage. But then, who's stalling, the guy in motion or the guy standing still?

 

I just don't think he has that many options because Delgado is that good and can move better than just about anyone in the country at any weight. Megaludis looks lead-footed in comparison.

 

In the situation, the guy running is stalling. You're not setting the other guy up if he isn't following you. You have no obligation to follow him. Also, my point is that Mega can't score on the edge, so he shouldn't stay there and permit Delgado to run time off the clock hugging on the edge. Shove Delgado off, stop the clock and get back to the middle. I mean, I watched Gable-era wrestlers do this to Okie State for decades. It's not rocket science.

 

That may very well be true, but if the refs don't call it stalling, it's not stalling.

 

Mega may not be able to score on the edge, but he also can't score without being close or tying up, and Delgado won't let him when he feels he's in danger. I think you're oversimplifying things. As a former guy who was not as mobile as some of my opponents, I understand very well what Megaludis is going through. He is simply wrestling a guy who is quicker and shiftier from the feet, which forces him to engage to slow him down, which creates the opportunity for Delgado to do what he keeps doing.

 

I agree with you that it's Megaludis's fault that he keeps falling for the same trap, but I just don't know what he could be doing that's that different. The Gable era guys benefitted from two things Megaludis doesn't: (1) there were very, very few refs who could withstand Gable yelling "STALLING!!!" in their face for more than a minute or two... and (2) they were generally better conditioned than their opponents, and significantly so. Cael is not Gable and Mega is not better conditioned than Delgado.

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All this talk about Delgado being so superior to Mega ... these two have wrestled 2x this year. I watched both matches, and I am going off of memory which sometimes is faulty, but has Delgado gotten even one take down against Mega?

 

He has more wins when it matters.

 

I don't see anyone saying the gap is a mile wide, but there is a gap, which makes Delgado superior. I think the key is Delgado can make Megaludis wrestle they way Delgado wants Megaludis to wrestle, and the reverse is not true. Like I said, I think that's the case because Delgado is happy to take it to the mat and from the feet, he has a more varied attack that he can set up (or not!) through better motion. Not a huge difference, but enough to win.

 

Not so sure this is true. Delgado used to shoot and get the t/d on Nico, but Nico adjusted and Delgado doesn't even take serious shots on Nico anymore. It is all counter wrestling now.

 

The difference this past weekend was the grab ankle ride in OT.

 

You're making my point. Because Nico adjusted, Delgado chose a different strategy this time: don't let him shoot or control the ties, and force him into making a mistake. Nico didn't make any egregious mistakes, so Delgado didn't do much. That was the match Delgado wanted to wrestle and NOT the match Nico wanted to wrestle. End result: Delgado wins. You could tell from Nico's extreme frustration that he wanted more than anything to engage at his terms, but again, Delgado has the ability to make Nico wrestle his match more than the other way around. I really think that is the difference between these two otherwise very closely matched guys.

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My criticism of McIntosh is that at least Heflin had a plan. McIntosh simply has to score takedowns to win that match, as you point out, because Heflin is the better mat wrestler. And scoring on Heflin is tough. But McIntosh really seemed to have no idea how he was even going to try to attempt to score on Heflin. McIntosh just didn't seem to trust his offense, which is really a tactical failing more than a strategic one.

 

Fair enough. I agree. They were meeting for the first time, so it's hard to have much of a game plan. Next time, it might be a different match, although I'm not sure the outcome will be. Heflin is very hard to take down. Credit to MM that he was able to do it once.

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It would be interesting to know how much Delgado's "style" (or strategy for that matter) has been influenced by a very "hands on" coach and former Penn Stater Jeremy Hunter. For those who might know, any correlation ?

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Might be a moot point but I'm pretty sure MM had a reversal to Heflin's 2 escapes to result in OT! I was hoping like hell that he could ride out that 2nd period.

 

You're right, I was wrong.

:o I thought that phrase was against forum rules!

 

Be careful, wrestlingnerd - I wouldn't want to see you reported to the moderators.

.

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Yeah... Its stalling to stay on one knee only while stalking your opponent all over the mat because he's backing up and bouncing away from you... Oh wait no it's not.

 

+1 Doc, 100% true. Delgado was stalling, Mega was wrestling. But unfortunately Delgado was the only one wrestling with his opponents style in mind so he deserved to win. Mega wrestled well the entire tournament but it doesn't matter, if you aren't being strategic then you are screwing yourself. Look at how Steiber adjusted his approach to Retherford. He knew he had to get a takedown early and stay on top to get a mental edge in the rest of the match and knowing how nasty Zain is Logan took neutral negating Zains biggest advantage.

 

It's the Alan Waters school of wrestling. Not much different. With all the Delgado complaints, do you think fans would rather see someone on their knees, or someone with incredible speed and footwork. Delgado's game has always been to set up his shots from afar. If someone can't neutralize that, then they need to find a plan B. Mega has one style, just like Delgado. They are worlds apart.

 

Since this board is dominated by people from PA, it's expected that they would whine constantly when their wrestlers are not up to the task at hand. Not sure why that is, but it's obvious. We'll see if the match up again in OKC. My sense is that Delgado will continue to frustrate Megaludis.

 

BTW, Delgado finished 4th at state in his senior year. Obviously, he can be beat.

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BTW, Delgado finished 4th at state in his senior year. Obviously, he can be beat.

 

Delgado wrestled at 125 his senior year so his friend who for 3 years had wrestled what ever weight he was needed at could finally wrestle at the weight he weighed. The friend made it to state that year and came a match from placing. Jesse wrestled 119 at senior nationals and won it. So for those who like to rip on Delgado as he stalls, and he's a punk and yada yada yada, well you don't know Jesse. Also a little bit of Trivia Jesse lost in semis to Vince Rodriguez of George Mason who his senior year won senior nationals at 125. He then beat Chris Mecate of Old Dominion to get in for 3rd where he lost to fellow Illinois team mate Isaiah Martinez. So you see it was a pretty stacked weight class.

 

Also how about this for a weight class at Ironman. Jesse went 125 there his senior year and took 4th.

 

1st Logan Steiber

2nd Devin Carter

3rd Johnni DiJulius

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That may very well be true, but if the refs don't call it stalling, it's not stalling.

 

Mega may not be able to score on the edge, but he also can't score without being close or tying up, and Delgado won't let him when he feels he's in danger. I think you're oversimplifying things. As a former guy who was not as mobile as some of my opponents, I understand very well what Megaludis is going through. He is simply wrestling a guy who is quicker and shiftier from the feet, which forces him to engage to slow him down, which creates the opportunity for Delgado to do what he keeps doing.

 

I agree with you that it's Megaludis's fault that he keeps falling for the same trap, but I just don't know what he could be doing that's that different. The Gable era guys benefitted from two things Megaludis doesn't: (1) there were very, very few refs who could withstand Gable yelling "STALLING!!!" in their face for more than a minute or two... and (2) they were generally better conditioned than their opponents, and significantly so. Cael is not Gable and Mega is not better conditioned than Delgado.

 

Just nitpicking, but I doubt very much that Jesse is a whole bunch quicker than Nico. Jesse wrestles continuously sliding backwards, lowering his stance and the second an opponent steps into him without staying low Jesse shoots. It looks quicker than heck because the other guy helped Jesse cover the distance by stepping into the shot. Jesse typically only has to cover 1/2 the distance. If Jesse was all that much quicker than Nico, Jesse would not need to slide backwards, he could simply stand there and when Nico was within an arms length he could just shoot and score. Nico has taken the backwards move away from Jesse and Jesse in their last three matches has pretty much given up even trying to score off a shot.

 

If Nico wants to win a title he needs to figure a way to out-scramble Jesse in those funk scrambles, and of course that still leaves the Cornell kid.

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Just nitpicking, but I doubt very much that Jesse is a whole bunch quicker than Nico. Jesse wrestles continuously sliding backwards, lowering his stance and the second an opponent steps into him without staying low Jesse shoots. It looks quicker than heck because the other guy helped Jesse cover the distance by stepping into the shot. Jesse typically only has to cover 1/2 the distance. If Jesse was all that much quicker than Nico, Jesse would not need to slide backwards, he could simply stand there and when Nico was within an arms length he could just shoot and score. Nico has taken the backwards move away from Jesse and Jesse in their last three matches has pretty much given up even trying to score off a shot.

 

If Nico wants to win a title he needs to figure a way to out-scramble Jesse in those funk scrambles, and of course that still leaves the Cornell kid.

 

If you're nitpicking, so will I. I never said he is "a whole bunch quicker", just that he is quicker. These guys are so close that small differences define one's edge over the other. To me, Nico has the edge in a more traditional tie-up situation where he can slow Delgado down, and Delgado has the edge when he can create motion because he is a little quicker and can then dictate the pace of the match better. He's like Floyd Mayweather, very good footwork and motion, can frustrate his opponents defensively and picks his spots really carefully. But he is not at his best "wrestling in a phone booth." He needs motion to be optimally effective because it allows him to capitalize on his quickness, whether offensively or defensively (by taking the other guy out of his rhythm and forcing him to wrestle Delgado's match).

 

Obviously, Nico and his coaches have spent a ton of time scouting Delgado, so Nico is very well prepared and aware of Delgado's tendencies, which has allowed him to neutralize Delgado's formerly effective shots from the outside for now. That doesn't necessarily mean that Delgado is not quicker anymore, just that Nico is better prepared. If you are going to move all the way from one end of the mat to the other without putting yourself in danger while the other guy is moving into you, going forward, you have to be at least a little quicker, no? How many guys could do that to Nico all day long without getting taken down?

 

I don't base my opinion on just their head-to-head matches either. How many times has Megaludis threatened Garrett, also quite quick? Delgado has been able to get to Garrett's legs successfully before, and he has been able to stave off Garrett's attacks. Megaludis has had no luck doing either. I constantly have to rewind Delgado's matches to see exactly how he is able to penetrate on his shots with no setup because he lowers his level so fast.

 

It's easy to second-guess how Nico should've wrestled Delgado, but doing so is not giving Delgado enough credit. He is a slippery, shifty, quick little SOB, and, like Garrett, has longer limbs than Nico to help him get out of trouble. How do you wrestle a moving target that once you hit it, puts you in a 50/50 situation because of his scrambling ability? It's tough no matter what way you wrestle him.

 

If I were Nico's coach, one strategy I'd advocate is to try to get Delgado hit with stalling, which would turn the tables and force Delgado to attack while Nico could take a more defensive posture to try to capitalize on a mistake. But obviously, that didn't really work last time either.

 

To your point, I think the Cornell kid is an even bigger problem. Nico and Delgado are so close that sheer dumbass luck might give him the win next time. But the gap with Garrett seems significantly wider.

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Too bad the refs don't call stalling when Megaludis has at least one knee on the mat for well over 5 seconds. Tough to shoot in on a guy when he doesn't have the balls to wrestle properly, like Megaludis. He knows Delgado could easily get to a leg.

 

Nico showed a lot of class after the match. Let's hear how wonderful he and his family are. :lol:

----

 

Remarkable how little comment has been made about Megaludis chasing after Delgado in the waning seconds, and giving him a shove after the whistle. This was followed by getting in Delgado's face for some words. Whole threads are typically devoted to that stuff when an Iowa wrestler is involved. Different standards are in effect when it is PSU, I guess.

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Too bad the refs don't call stalling when Megaludis has at least one knee on the mat for well over 5 seconds. Tough to shoot in on a guy when he doesn't have the balls to wrestle properly, like Megaludis. He knows Delgado could easily get to a leg.

 

Nico showed a lot of class after the match. Let's hear how wonderful he and his family are. :lol:

----

 

Remarkable how little comment has been made about Megaludis chasing after Delgado in the waning seconds, and giving him a shove after the whistle. This was followed by getting in Delgado's face for some words. Whole threads are typically devoted to that stuff when an Iowa wrestler is involved. Different standards are in effect when it is PSU, I guess.

 

Because it really was a nothing push and the commentary was positive and good for the rivalry.

It's a little different than Metcalf shoving guys through barriers and off raised final's mats.

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