tommygun 52 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 If every team had the same number of pigtail matches. I'm calling conspiracy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LemonPie 1,368 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 Coon was also paid off by the Mormon elite. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTMopar 17 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 First and foremost Congrats to all on The PSU "Train"...Tough tournament and Iowa was a surprise 2nd since Minnesota folded again...Iowa had the "Head to Head" match-ups and couldn't get it done if this thread is really an argument...My hats off to Mr. Taylor and Mr. Ruth both 4X B1G and soon to be 4X NCAA Team Champions... :D :D :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IA_Hawk 9 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 First and foremost Congrats to all on The PSU "Train"...Tough tournament and Iowa was a surprise 2nd since Minnesota folded again...Iowa had the "Head to Head" match-ups and couldn't get it done if this thread is really an argument...My hats off to Mr. Taylor and Mr. Ruth both 4X B1G and soon to be 4X NCAA Team Champions... :D /quote] This will be the one time I agree with you--Congrats to Taylor and Ruth. :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pinnum 836 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 Yes, Penn State did have 8 more potential points at the start of the event than Iowa due to the pig tail matches but when you look at what percentage of the total points were captured it is pretty close. Penn State captured 53.2 percent of their total potential points while Iowa captured 52.7 percent. Based on the roads the programs had they each performed, basically, equally. Iowa performed better than many programs expected and they made a run at the title. I don't see how we can really argue that Penn State had an unfair advantage when all tournaments always have these issues built into them. It is one of the reasons I prefer to use duals to settle arguments about teams and tournaments when it comes to individuals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flying-Tiger 617 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 Even if you eliminate all bonus points from pigtails, PSU still wins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MSU158 1,984 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 Even if you eliminate all bonus points from pigtails, PSU still wins. LOL, I notice you didn't say all the EXTRA MATCHES from pigtails. It is SOOOOO hilarious that the PSU faithful like yourself have touted the tournament format as the PERFECT way to decide the best team, yet something like this can happen that UNFAIRLY tips the balance in one team"s favor.............. This is a MAJOR flaw in the system. Because it is the way it has always been doesn't make it right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTMopar 17 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 Didn't Minnesota just win the "National Duals" without effort...Finished 3rd @ The Scuffle and Finished 3rd in the B1G tournament without Okie State...I would include the "Big Red" but they are struggling as well...Iowa is the only team on the same page so you folks need to get to "Work"!!! P.S. The "Train" PSU :!: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sockobuw 49 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 penn state scored 9.5 bonus in 7 pigtails. iowa scored 5 in 3 pigtails. anyway you break it down it didn't change the result of this tournament, but is a flaw in tournament scoring when there are not even brackets. what is the best solution to the issue? no bonus in the pigtail rounds? you also have the advancement point which is scored by guys winning in the pigtail and by wrestlers receiving a bye followed by a win. you should also take that advancement point out for everyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IRTYTKY 67 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 I am not for one second blaming Iowa losing on Penn State getting more pigtails. Penn State won fair and square, but I have to wonder why they would allow a situation like this to potentially decide the outcome moving forward. I dont see why you wouldnt eliminate bonus and advancement points in the pigtails. Will it make it better or worse next year with 14 teams and only 2 wrestlers at a weight not getting a first round match? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuskyHero133 52 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 I am not for one second blaming Iowa losing on Penn State getting more pigtails. Penn State won fair and square, but I have to wonder why they would allow a situation like this to potentially decide the outcome moving forward. I dont see why you wouldnt eliminate bonus and advancement points in the pigtails. Will it make it better or worse next year with 14 teams and only 2 wrestlers at a weight not getting a first round match? If this will stop people from complaining about the tournament format (far chance), then that's what they should do. I don't think it will make a difference either way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhackler 38 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 I've always felt that pig/rat tails should be viewed as preliminary matches wrestled in order to gain a spot on the tournament bracket proper. No chance for bonus or advancement points. Win a spot on the bracket, then you have a chance to earn points for your team. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Husker_Du 841 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 which seeds got the byes 125: 2, 3, 4, 8 133: 1, 2, 3, 4 141: 2, 3, 4, 8 149: 1, 3, 5, 7 157: 1, 2, 3, 4 165: 1, 2, 3, 4 174: 1, 2, 3, 6 184: 2, 3, 4, 8 197: 1, 2, 3, 4 HWT: 1, 2, 3, 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LemonPie 1,368 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 Even if you eliminate all bonus points from pigtails, PSU still wins. LOL, I notice you didn't say all the EXTRA MATCHES from pigtails. It is SOOOOO hilarious that the PSU faithful like yourself have touted the tournament format as the PERFECT way to decide the best team, yet something like this can happen that UNFAIRLY tips the balance in one team"s favor.............. This is a MAJOR flaw in the system. Because it is the way it has always been doesn't make it right. Are you really THAT mad, OR Is your POST just a MARTY parody? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuskyHero133 52 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 Nobody said the tournament was a PERFECT way to determine the best team. Just that it is the BEST way, especially for an individual sport with weight classes like wrestling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldCoach1950 0 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 The point here is, that if Iowa had wrestled 7 pig tail matches and Penn St. had wrestled 3 pig tail matches with similar results to what they both had this week end, Iowa would have won. If Penn St. picked up 5 points for winning 3 pig tails like Iowa did, they would have ended with 136 points. Had Iowa picked up 9.5 like Penn St. did they would have ended up with 139.5. Both teams did very well in the pig tails, so does appear if the roles were reversed as to the number of pig tails Iowa would be the Champs this year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBar1977 4,499 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 The point here is, that if Iowa had wrestled 7 pig tail matches and Penn St. had wrestled 3 pig tail matches with similar results to what they both had this week end, Iowa would have won. If Penn St. picked up 5 points for winning 3 pig tails like Iowa did, they would have ended with 136 points. Had Iowa picked up 9.5 like Penn St. did they would have ended up with 139.5. Both teams did very well in the pig tails, so does appear if the roles were reversed as to the number of pig tails Iowa would be the Champs this year. Random draw. This is going to be a moot point at NCAA's. I would have to believe you think Iowa is a co favorite at The Tournament, correct? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuskyHero133 52 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 If my aunt had balls she'd be............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IRTYTKY 67 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 I dont think anyone is really makin excuses I just think its something that should be looked at moving forward to make the tournament as even as possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headshuck 2,589 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 If my aunt had balls she'd be............. That's the quote that should have been used during the weeks of debate over the referee call in the Minnesota win over PSU dual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBar1977 4,499 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 I dont think anyone is really makin excuses I just think its something that should be looked at moving forward to make the tournament as even as possible. I would have had no problem if they'd had looked at the way it worked out and decided to even it up so that both of them had 5 pigtails, but then wouldn't some other team be claiming that they favored Iowa and Penn State over the rest? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuskyHero133 52 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 If my aunt had balls she'd be............. That's the quote that should have been used during the weeks of debate over the referee call in the Minnesota win over PSU dual. Not really. It was actually a blown call by a referee, there is no such thing as fleeing the mat for a point anymore. But MN still earned that win, which I think was said over and over again. The random draw of pig tails is the same system that's always been in place. No comparison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LordNelson 552 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 The "reel" point is that Brody Grothus cost the Hawks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LemonPie 1,368 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 149 pound curse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IRTYTKY 67 Report post Posted March 10, 2014 I dont think anyone is really makin excuses I just think its something that should be looked at moving forward to make the tournament as even as possible. I would have had no problem if they'd had looked at the way it worked out and decided to even it up so that both of them had 5 pigtails, but then wouldn't some other team be claiming that they favored Iowa and Penn State over the rest? They could always just not include bonus from the first round. They could also say top 4 seeds get byes and pin points since they earned those seeds then just score the pigtails normal as well. I'm making to big of a deal out of this but my point was why not improve this for future tournaments so you could avoid having a team win just because they had more bonus points from having extra pigtail matches. Disclaimer: once again I am in no way shape or form saying this is the reason Iowa lost. Penn State flat out won it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
