How exactly does seeding work this year?

[wrestlingnerd 3,000]

Would love to hear from guys who know. SHP? gimpeltf? Anyone?

 

There are more tricky situations this year than I remember in a long time. Also, I'm trying to figure out who helped themselves and who made it harder on themselves this weekend.

 

For example, is Port for sure #1? I think he should be. He is the highest returning placewinner at the weight (I know this does not matter in seeding) and undefeated, while everyone else has a loss. Is a "JV schedule" ever enough to move a guy like that to #2 behind a guy like Stieber, who had one off day that he avenged by smoking the guy who beat him, and other than that, has been an absolute monster?

 

And what happens to Carter, now that he's back after skipping most of the season? Has he done enough to be #3, giving Retherford finals hope again, or is Retherford assed out in the semis, where Stieber (I'm assuming no way he gets #1) will beat him down to the consies?

 

Is Morgan McIntosh breathing sighs of relief because, having lost at B1G, he now has three losses and is therefore replaced by Heflin at #3, moving him to #4, away from J'Den Cox, his worst matchup and a total nightmare for MM? Does the fact that he now has 3 losses drop him to #5, below Richard Perry, who stuck his guy at the EWL finals to go 31-1, albeit off of a "JV schedule"?

 

Is Gabe Dean going to be #3 no matter what? Or might Max Thomusseit have a case for the dubious honor of having to face Ruth in the semis? After all, Thomusseit has only lost to #1 Sheptock, albeit twice, while Dean has lost to both Sheptock and Ruth, although he did avenge the loss to Ruth.

 

Is Garrett really still #1? He looked like nothing special against (an admittedly vastly improved) Terao in the EIWAs, winning a squeaker on riding time, and he has the heads up loss to Delgado. Meanwhile, Delgado is the returning champ (I know this does not matter) who beat both Garrett and Megaludis heads up, even though he did drop one to Mega earlier in the season. Did Delgado do just enough to do himself a huge favor and get on the opposite side of both Garrett and Mega?

 

So many questions this year.

[sockobuw 49]

the thing you can count on is the committee having some head scratchers. last year my biggest complaint was at 184. hamlin beat bosak in the dual, but defaulted to 6th at eiwa's. hamlin ends up 3rd and bosak 4th. you cannot reward guys defaulting out of conference tournaments.

[wrestlingnerd 3,000]

the thing you can count on is the committee having some head scratchers. last year my biggest complaint was at 184. hamlin beat bosak in the dual, but defaulted to 6th at eiwa's. hamlin ends up 3rd and bosak 4th. you cannot reward guys defaulting out of conference tournaments.

 

Agreed. Total travesty of justice. That's why I want to know how it's supposed to work.

[Matburn155 3]

I'd like to be a fly on the wall at that meeting.

[LordNelson 552]

I like Port but seeing who Steiber avenged his only loss shouldn't he be #1??

Undefeated is great (2 Med FF'ts) and Port is likely as underrated a guy there is, but Logan has just as many quality wins.

Port's best wins:

Jeva

Mecate

Spisak

Bright

Spujt MD

Rodriguez MD

 

Streebler:

Theilke

Dutton

Dardanes X's 2

Retherford

Rodriguez TF

Lester X's 2

Small

Spujt TF

[silver-medal 670]

I like Port but seeing who Steiber avenged his only loss shouldn't he be #1??

Undefeated is great (2 Med FF'ts) and Port is likely as underrated a guy there is, but Logan has just as many quality wins.

Port's best wins:

Jeva

Mecate

Spisak

Bright

Spujt MD

Rodriguez MD

 

Streebler:

Theilke

Dutton

Dardanes X's 2

Retherford

Rodriguez TF

Lester X's 2

Small

Spujt TF

 

Agree completely that Stieber should be #1. He has bonus wins over every single opponent not named Zain Retherford while Port has wrestled a weaker schedule. Oh, and he's the returning 2x champ. Come on. Port's terrific but it's not close. And Intermat rankings should mean nothing. Most in season rankings have a logic that's sound on the surface but makes no sense under closer scrutiny. Stieber is obviously better than everyone at the weight at this point in time and has proven it convincingly.

[MSU158 1,984]

Port is 28-0 with 20 bonus point victories. Only 2 of the remaining 8 were remotely close and Port controlled both of those matches. I would not argue that he is better than Stieber. However, his season has been BETTER than Stieber. Regardless of Stieber avenging his loss to Retherford he STILL has a loss. The same with Retherford. They both have blemishes on their record and shouldn't pass an undefeated wrestler who wrestled a full schedule in dominating fashion.

[wrestlingnerd 3,000]

Who deserves #1 versus who should get it per the system in place are two different things.

 

In the case of Stieber, I believe he is the #1 wrestler and would wager a fair amount of money that he'll win it all. But I believe Port should get #1 based on the way seeding works (or at least the way I think it works).

 

What I'm wondering is, what are the seeding criteria this year, and what are the relative weightings given to each major criterion?

 

RPI?

Record? (If record, how do you handle a guy with only a fraction of the matches of other guys, like Carer?)

Bonus wins?

Schedule strength?

Past accomplishments? (I believe these don't matter at all in seeding, but could be wrong)

 

If RPI and record are the strongest criteria, no matter who we think will win, Port should get #1. If bonus and schedule matter as much, then clearly Stieber has a case. If past accomplishments matter, then hands down, Stieber is #1.

 

I'm just trying to figure out how the process actually works, not who deserves which seed.

[LordNelson 552]

Port is 28-0 with 20 bonus point victories. Only 2 of the remaining 8 were remotely close and Port controlled both of those matches. I would not argue that he is better than Stieber. However, his season has been BETTER than Stieber. Regardless of Stieber avenging his loss to Retherford he STILL has a loss. The same with Retherford. They both have blemishes on their record and shouldn't pass an undefeated wrestler who wrestled a full schedule in dominating fashion.

His schedule wasn't even comparable to Steiber's.

[rickybobby 39]

The real question at 141 is where Carter will fit in. He is also undefeated for the season.

[nom 1,186]

For those saying Stieber should be #1, have you considered who should be #2?

 

If you are willing to discount Stieber's loss, you should be willing to discount Retherford's loss. Retherford has wins over Mecate, Horan, AND Stieber. Combined, these are bigger wins than Port has.

 

By your logic, it could go …

 

Stieber 1

Retherford 2

Port 3

 

This doesn't look right.

[LordNelson 552]

Most seeding criteria uses last win when it comes to 2 guys swapping Head to Head losses.

So Steiber Up, Retherford Down

Not to mention the timing of each loss.

 

Port should be 2 and Retherford 3.

[HurricaneWrestling 1,123]

Port is 28-0 with 20 bonus point victories. Only 2 of the remaining 8 were remotely close and Port controlled both of those matches. I would not argue that he is better than Stieber. However, his season has been BETTER than Stieber. Regardless of Stieber avenging his loss to Retherford he STILL has a loss. The same with Retherford. They both have blemishes on their record and shouldn't pass an undefeated wrestler who wrestled a full schedule in dominating fashion.

I think this is the way the seeding committee will look at it. There was a similar situation in 2011, when the Hawk fans were arguing for McDonough to get the # 1 seed over Robles. McDonough was the defending NCAA champ with one loss to Precin at Midlands, which he avenged in the Big 10 tournament finals. Robles was undefeated and was awarded the # 1 seed for the NCAAs.

 

While I personally believe Stieber is the top guy at 141, I think Port has earned the # 1 seed for NCAAs.

.

[nom 1,186]

Most seeding criteria uses last win when it comes to 2 guys swapping Head to Head losses.

So Steiber Up, Retherford Down

Not to mention the timing of each loss.

 

Port should be 2 and Retherford 3.

 

I understand your statement but …. before it was Port 1, Retherford 2, Stieber 3. Your statement would just swap Stieber and Retherford. Wouldn't impact Port.

[HurricaneWrestling 1,123]

The real question at 141 is where Carter will fit in. He is also undefeated for the season.

I agree that's the tough question. I'm guessing the top 4 seeds will be:

 

1. Port

2. Stieber

3. Retherford

4. Carter

 

That said, perhaps a case could be made for Carter to get the # 3 seed over Retherford. (I think Darrion "The Wolf' Caldwell had an identical record in 2011 when he got the # 1 seed.)

.

[lu_alum 920]

Aside from seeding the top 16, I believe conference separation has also been eliminated.

[sbdude 16]

Most tourney seeding criteria starts with:

 

1. Head-to-head results

2. Common opponents

 

then things become more subjective if you still can't break a tie.

 

Stieber and Retherford neither have head-to-head matches with Port so I'm guess it might come down to common opponents.

 

But then again I have no idea what seeding criteria the NCAA uses.

[Demonizer 0]

Carter is 14-0, with 11 bonus point wins (8 pins) and one of the matches that was not bonus was the bout when he was injured. He had a large lead at the time.