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JohnnyThompsonnum1

Let's seed 133

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Same principle's apply here as they did 125.

 

How I'd do it.

 

#1 Joe Colon

#2 A.J. Schopp

#3 Tony Ramos

#4 Tyler Graff

#5 Jon Morrison

#6 Mason Beckman

#7 Cashe Quiroga

#8 David Thorn

#9 Ryan Mango

#10 Cody Brewer

#11 Joe Roth

#12 Zane Richards

#13 Johnni DiJulius

#14 Nick Soto

#15 Mark Grey

#16 Devon Lotito

 

PSU fans may be unhappy that Gulibon was left off as well. He does have wins over both #8 seed Thorn and #9 seed Mango, but Thorn has since avenged that loss and Mango's overall 2014 resume is much more impressive than is Gulibon's. Perhaps Gulibon could have been switched out with anyone 14 through 16, but as of right now justifiably I have him as the 17th best guy at the weight.

 

Also just missing the cut was Rossi Bruno, mainly due to a poor BIG 10 performance, and head to head losses against Lotito, DiJulius, Richards and Roth.

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Possibly. He's had a tough one as well. Won't matter. The Grey and Gulibon types will need to catch fire/a dream draw in the consis to get a R o 12 opportunity

 

I'm not real positive how much being seeded 13th through 16th helps from a team perspective anyway. I've been told more than once, and agree that the extra seeding are meant primarily to protect the top seeded guys from potentially rough 1st or 2nd round match ups. I highly doubt that being the 15th seeded guy in the bracket is going to do much to help you in your 1st round match, more than it would someone who just missed being seeded 13th through 16th.

 

I guess what I'm saying here is, Both Gulibon and Grey wrestle for powerhouse teams. Gulibon for NCAA champion contender Penn State and Grey for top 5 potential Cornell. Soto, is really UT-Chattanooga's only hope for an AA as is Lotito's for Cal Poly.

 

It's certainly not my concern or the seeding committees concern to take this into consideration. However for the simply sake of answering curiosity's question, does it make a difference? Would it potentially help Penn State to seed Gulibon 16th? It most certainly would to see him 12th, as the thinking in doing so is to get into the Quarterfinals or wrestle back through the consolations for added team points. I just don't know if 13th through 16th does that or not. I'm guessing that it doesn't?

 

Thoughts?

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The benefit of being 15th/16th is that on paper your wrestleback should be slightly easier the first match or two. But every bracket is impossible to predict. It really doesn't matter in the end.

 

It matters as much as seeding matters, which is a little, not much. Mentally I think it is a big plus to get a first round win under your belt though, versus getting manhandled by a #1 seed and then having to regroup.

 

Individually, not a huge deal. Team-wise, if you've got 4 or 5 guys all ranked in that 10-20 range but miss out on 12 seeds and draw 4 or 5 high seeds the cumulative effect can be disadvantageous, to say the least.

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Same principle's apply here as they did 125.

 

How I'd do it.

 

#1 Joe Colon

#2 A.J. Schopp

#3 Tony Ramos

#4 Tyler Graff

#5 Jon Morrison

#6 Mason Beckman

#7 Cashe Quiroga

#8 David Thorn

#9 Ryan Mango

#10 Cody Brewer

#11 Joe Roth

#12 Zane Richards

#13 Johnni DiJulius

#14 Nick Soto

#15 Mark Grey

#16 Devon Lotito

 

PSU fans may be unhappy that Gulibon was left off as well. He does have wins over both #8 seed Thorn and #9 seed Mango, but Thorn has since avenged that loss and Mango's overall 2014 resume is much more impressive than is Gulibon's. Perhaps Gulibon could have been switched out with anyone 14 through 16, but as of right now justifiably I have him as the 17th best guy at the weight.

 

Also just missing the cut was Rossi Bruno, mainly due to a poor BIG 10 performance, and head to head losses against Lotito, DiJulius, Richards and Roth.

 

I think you are pretty close although I don't think Graff gets seeded over Morrison. Morrison only has 1 loss(Ramos). Even though it was bad(8-2) I don't think a 4 loss Graff is going to get seeded over a 1 loss Morrison. The only other thing I see is Brewer should be seeded behind DiJulius.

 

Also, Ramos getting seeded over Morrison is the EXACT same scenario as Delgado over Garrett. 2 losses to one with a DECISIVE head to head win. I don't see how they treat EITHER situation differently.

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Possibly. He's had a tough one as well. Won't matter. The Grey and Gulibon types will need to catch fire/a dream draw in the consis to get a R o 12 opportunity

 

I'm not real positive how much being seeded 13th through 16th helps from a team perspective anyway. I've been told more than once, and agree that the extra seeding are meant primarily to protect the top seeded guys from potentially rough 1st or 2nd round match ups. I highly doubt that being the 15th seeded guy in the bracket is going to do much to help you in your 1st round match, more than it would someone who just missed being seeded 13th through 16th.

 

I guess what I'm saying here is, Both Gulibon and Grey wrestle for powerhouse teams. Gulibon for NCAA champion contender Penn State and Grey for top 5 potential Cornell. Soto, is really UT-Chattanooga's only hope for an AA as is Lotito's for Cal Poly.

 

It's certainly not my concern or the seeding committees concern to take this into consideration. However for the simply sake of answering curiosity's question, does it make a difference? Would it potentially help Penn State to seed Gulibon 16th? It most certainly would to see him 12th, as the thinking in doing so is to get into the Quarterfinals or wrestle back through the consolations for added team points. I just don't know if 13th through 16th does that or not. I'm guessing that it doesn't?

 

Thoughts?

 

I would say Mock has a better chance of AAing than Soto, so Soto is not UTC's only hope for an AA. He's not even their best hope for an AA.

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Many of these guys not wrestling in the Big10 have good records but really have limited number of quality wins. Grey ect. Guys out of the big ten especially Gulibon have wrestled a meat grinder of a schedule. Cael had him and Conaway alternating matches leaving Gulibon to have an abnormally high percentage of matches against top 15 guys. I don't feel his record is an indication of where he is at.

 

I think Jimmy deserves a seed over a few of the others listed he does have wins over Thorn and Mango as second place showing at the scuffle Techs and majors over guys like Malone and bruno also has proven the ability to be within a point or two of anyone he will start winning these close matches in time.

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Many of these guys not wrestling in the Big10 have good records but really have limited number of quality wins. Grey ect. Guys out of the big ten especially Gulibon have wrestled a meat grinder of a schedule. Cael had him and Conaway alternating matches leaving Gulibon to have an abnormally high percentage of matches against top 15 guys. I don't feel his record is an indication of where he is at.

 

I think Jimmy deserves a seed over a few of the others listed he does have wins over Thorn and Mango as second place showing at the scuffle Techs and majors over guys like Malone and bruno also has proven the ability to be within a point or two of anyone he will start winning these close matches in time.

 

You're a moron. We get it, Chance Marstellar turned his back on PSU, so he's a bum. The PSU kid who is roughly .500 deserves to get seeded because, well, he's from PSU.

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Same principle's apply here as they did 125.

 

How I'd do it.

 

#1 Joe Colon

#2 A.J. Schopp

#3 Tony Ramos

#4 Tyler Graff

#5 Jon Morrison

#6 Mason Beckman

#7 Cashe Quiroga

#8 David Thorn

#9 Ryan Mango

#10 Cody Brewer

#11 Joe Roth

#12 Zane Richards

#13 Johnni DiJulius

#14 Nick Soto

#15 Mark Grey

#16 Devon Lotito

 

PSU fans may be unhappy that Gulibon was left off as well. He does have wins over both #8 seed Thorn and #9 seed Mango, but Thorn has since avenged that loss and Mango's overall 2014 resume is much more impressive than is Gulibon's. Perhaps Gulibon could have been switched out with anyone 14 through 16, but as of right now justifiably I have him as the 17th best guy at the weight.

 

Also just missing the cut was Rossi Bruno, mainly due to a poor BIG 10 performance, and head to head losses against Lotito, DiJulius, Richards and Roth.

 

I think you are pretty close although I don't think Graff gets seeded over Morrison. Morrison only has 1 loss(Ramos). Even though it was bad(8-2) I don't think a 4 loss Graff is going to get seeded over a 1 loss Morrison. The only other thing I see is Brewer should be seeded behind DiJulius.

 

Also, Ramos getting seeded over Morrison is the EXACT same scenario as Delgado over Garrett. 2 losses to one with a DECISIVE head to head win. I don't see how they treat EITHER situation differently.

 

Wasn't the Morrison/Ramos match 3-2 down to the wire and then Morrison went to his back in the last 10 seconds trying to score? Every match they have wrestled the past 2 years has been Ramos scoring, Morrison not scoring, and a 1 point match down to the wire. Ramos clearly has his number and I doubt Morrison reverses it at Nationals (although I wouldn't be surprised to see Morrison beat guys who beat Ramos). But my point is that it wasn't some DESICIVE head to head win. Also, in the 125 situation they have all beat each other so it is nothing alike. Morrison at 133 has no win over any of the top 3 so it is not the same as Garrett (who lost the head to head, but all 3 guys have beaten each other so it can't simply come down to head to head).

 

My guess is Colon, Schopp, Ramos, Morrison, Graff.

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Barrett, you are incorrect on how this year's Ramos Morrison match played out and last year's at NCAA's. This year, Ramos picked his spots perfectly and scored on both committed shot attempts taking him to his back with the second one. Might have been a little under a minute left in the third but it wasn't 10 seconds. Also, pretty sure Ramos beat Morrison something like 6-2 last year at NCAA's. The gap is getting wider. In fact, has Morrison even scored a takedown on Ramos in college? Or ever?

 

EDIT: It was 6-1 last year at NCAA's and Morrison has never scored more than 2 points on Tony in college so I am doubting that he has gotten a takedown in any of the matches.

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Granted, I am an Illini fan and Zane Richards is one of my favorite Illini.

 

I am unclear how Johnni DiJulius (26-7) gets #9 and Richards (25-7) gets #14 just a few days after Richards pounds DiJulius 10-4 in their only meeting.

 

DiJulius lost to Sam Sherlock, Rossi Bruno, Cashe Quiroga twice, David Thorn twice, and Richards.

Richards lost to Nick Wilcox, Cashe Quiroga twice, Tyler Graff, Joe Roth, Joey Palmer, and David Thorn.

 

Their records are nearly identical. Their quality losses are very similar (Thorn, Quiroga vs Thorn, Quiroga, and Roth). Their head-scratching losses are similar (Sherlock, Bruno vs Wilcox, Palmer).

 

Head-to-head should have taken precedence when all other factors are so close.

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DiJulius has some great wins, but he also has the only loss to a non-qualifier (Sherlock).

 

It isn't like Richards beat no one. He defeated DiJulius, Gulibon, Mark Grey, Bruno (who has a win over DiJulius),

 

DiJulius only has a single win that outranks Richards' win over the #9 seed.

Oh, and Richards just beat DiJulius 10-4.

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^I mean I think theres a good argument to be made that Dijulius should be lower, but It's tougher to argue Richards should be any higher than he is. In fact, Dijulius being lower would hurt Richards a great deal since DiJulius is his most significant win.

 

I think Dijulius's ranking is largely due to the Colon win and I'm completely ok with that. It was a huge win.

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