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Taylor will go to 157 to wrestle Dake

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Howe doesn't score in bunches like Taylor. He grinds his opponents into a pulp. It will be interesting to see how Taylor responds to a vicious head butt into the bleachers.
Similar to the way Howe will respond to having his ankles swept off the mat. It is a full year from now and we aren't even sure of what weight either of them will be at.

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Rod-I would favor Ruth over Caldwell. Just for the record I will favor Taylor over Howe as well. I see Taylor over Howe in a high scoring affair, something like 9-7 or 7-5. Could obviously be a one point match as well. I could see Ruth/Caldwell being low scoring and I could see it being high scoring as well. I know we really only like to talk about PSU wrestlers right now but there are also some other intriguing guys coming back next year in Kilgore and Graff to start with. Obviously no one wants to talk about Graff vs. Martellotti. Or Kilgore vs. MM. I kid. I kid.

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Rod-I would favor Ruth over Caldwell. Just for the record I will favor Taylor over Howe as well. I see Taylor over Howe in a high scoring affair, something like 9-7 or 7-5. Could obviously be a one point match as well. I could see Ruth/Caldwell being low scoring and I could see it being high scoring as well. I know we really only like to talk about PSU wrestlers right now but there are also some other intriguing guys coming back next year in Kilgore and Graff to start with. Obviously no one wants to talk about Graff vs. Martellotti. Or Kilgore vs. MM. I kid. I kid.

 

Graff is very good. Will he come back at 133 or 141? I'm not sure he beats Oliver or Steiber. He has lost to J.O. every time they have wrestled in the past. It should just add to the fire though.

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The way I see it is Taylor wants to be the man and he would be easily had he won the title last year but now not only will Dake have a title over Taylor he will also have done it as a true freshman. The only way Taylor can actually prove he's better than Dake is by beating him head to head. Then even if he wins his fourth, people will always say , yeah Dake was great, but Taylor was better. If they don't wrestle we will never know and many will think Dake had not only the superior career but was the better wrestler.

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AnklePicker-I agree with every word you said.

 

Rod-I wouldn't pick Graff against JO, Steiber, or Ramos but yes he adds pure quality to that weight and that's where I would guess he'd be. If Long was found not guilty and was back 133 would be creeping into the 149 Metcalf and 157 Burroughs category.

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The way I see it is Taylor wants to be the man and he would be easily had he won the title last year but now not only will Dake have a title over Taylor he will also have done it as a true freshman. The only way Taylor can actually prove he's better than Dake is by beating him head to head. Then even if he wins his fourth, people will always say , yeah Dake was great, but Taylor was better. If they don't wrestle we will never know and many will think Dake had not only the superior career but was the better wrestler.

You are correct many people will judge careers only based on NCAA finishes... People will only see Dakes' 3-4 titles and Taylor' 2-3 and assume Dake was better overall wrestler when in reality Taylor had 1 offmatch where he went against his former teammate that knew him better than anyone else...Matt McDonough also would probably be a 3xer if he had not ran into Robles... because he probably did not adjust to wrestle a 1 legged wrestler... he could have easily also been a 3xer and in the discussion for greatest of all time but that one missed title seems to lower him a notch on everyone's best pound for pound.

 

Dake and Taylor will both go down as one of the greatest of all times... Taylor will have 1 career loss and if Dake does not wrestle Taylor next year then he will be a 4x Champ..They both have that child like mindset where they set goals and always believe it~ I would love to see a match between these 2.

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I think it is a no brainer that so far Dake has had the better college career of the two, Dake is 3 for 3 versus Taylor's 1 out of 2.

 

 

This is just not true.

 

 

Does Taylor have a second NCAA title I'm not aware of?

He probably means Dake has 3 titles in 3 attempts and Taylor has 1 title out of 2 attempts:geek:

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This is just not true.

 

 

Does Taylor have a second NCAA title I'm not aware of?

He probably means Dake has 3 titles in 3 attempts and Taylor has 1 title out of 2 attempts:geek:

 

 

No,, AW said "Dake has the better career of the two, Dake 3/3 vs. Taylor 1/2." DJ said "That's just not true". Then I interjected with a smartass comment...you know what, never mind, the joke wasn't that good.

 

 

Dake has had the superior career to Taylor, though. Not sure how it can be argued. Dake has 3 titles to Taylor's 1. Dake has never redshirted. Dake has done it at 3 different weights. I think this really is Taylor's shot to even the field between the two of them as who "the Best" of this current era is.

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I think it is a no brainer that so far Dake has had the better college career of the two, Dake is 3 for 3 versus Taylor's 1 out of 2.

 

 

This is just not true.

 

 

Does Taylor have a second NCAA title I'm not aware of?

 

I think it is a no brainer that so far Dake has had the better college career of the two, Dake is 3 for 3 versus Taylor's 1 out of 2.

 

 

This is just not true.

 

 

Does Taylor have a second NCAA title I'm not aware of?

 

The point is that it's kinda silly to say that wrestler X is having a better career than better than wrestler Y based solely on NCAA finishes. You have to look at the whole picture. Does Taylor have three other NCAA losses that I'm not aware of? Does Dake have a couple of team championships and a Hodge Trophy that I'm not aware of? Or a run even close to matching Taylor's dominance at the 2012 NCAAs?

 

There's more to it than NCAA finishes. Otherwise, McDonough (2 for 3) is just as good at Gable (2 for 3). Dake is better and will match Cael, in all likelihood. Taylor could be better than Gable. This is obviously all crazy talk.

 

As it stands, most people would put money on Taylor before putting money on Dake. Certainly this would be no guarantee and it may very well be the case that Dake is actually the better wrestler. But from what we do know, Taylor appears to be a notch above Dake in ability, and is setting up to be at least even in accomplishments.

 

But this isn't a narrative, "what have they accomplished" thread. This is a "Taylor vs. Dake" thread, so any comparison should be predictive instead. Jenkins's Cradle, while impressive and a big smudge mark of Taylor's resume, really has zero bearing on whether Dake would defeat Taylor. To me, a H2H matchup wouldn't do much to settle who is really, REALLY the best unless they met a few times. Unless one guy won by at least 4-6 points and was clearly the superior wrestler for seven minutes, one match really isn't a sufficient sample size. We all saw at the NCAAs that the best wrestler doesn't always win, and that the guy who takes the first match sometimes loses the rematch.

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So...when debating who has had the better career, we should ignore NCAA finishes? It seems to me that's the ultimate measure of your success. Dake currently has TWO more NCAA titles that Taylor. That matters. Win/loss record is also important to have on your side, but nearly as much as NCAA finishes.

 

As to Gable, he had some mitigating factors (no frosh could compete at NCAA's). NOt to mention he had 1 loss, period, in collegiate competition. WIn/loss matters for differentiating between wrestlers who have relatively equal credentials. Taylor does not have nearly the credentials of Dake right now.

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I remember back when Cael was dominating like he was and so many people kept saying "his weight isn't that deep" and "If he were at such and such weight he wouldn't be as dominant". When really Cael was just that much better. I mean he came off a 7 year layoff and trumped World Silver medalist Hebert, and then went and placed 5th at the worlds. He was just a point away from medaling (After 7 years without competitive wrestling). Point is, people keep saying Taylor wouldn't be as dominant at this or that weight. Taylor hasn't ever wrestled the likes of Dake, or How, etc. Or they bring up his loss to Jenkins. Jenkins won when it counted, when it mattered, but I don't think anyone seriously thinks that Jenkins would pin him again, even if they went back in time. I am not saying Jenkins may not have won, but it wouldn't have been a fall. Done again that match could have gone the other way... we will never know.

 

Still, maybe Taylor is just that good. I mean he just went through the Nationals with 4 falls (all in the first I believe), and then a tech fall with over a minute left in the finals. I don't care what weight you are at, there is no week weight. When you did what Taylor did you make a statement. Yes I like Taylor, but I like Dake too. Both are great wrestlers, but there is nothing to say that Taylor wouldn't be just as dominant at any weight. No, he would not dominate Dake at all. Maybe he would beat him and maybe he wouldn't. Nevertheless you don't win in the fashion Taylor did at any weight unless you are just that much better.

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So...when debating who has had the better career, we should ignore NCAA finishes? It seems to me that's the ultimate measure of your success. Dake currently has TWO more NCAA titles that Taylor. That matters. Win/loss record is also important to have on your side, but nearly as much as NCAA finishes.

 

As to Gable, he had some mitigating factors (no frosh could compete at NCAA's). NOt to mention he had 1 loss, period, in collegiate competition. WIn/loss matters for differentiating between wrestlers who have relatively equal credentials. Taylor does not have nearly the credentials of Dake right now.

Doesn't Taylor have 1 loss as well?

 

Whether a wrestler redshirts or not has no bearing on the greatness of their career. It's impressive sure if a wrestler decides to go as a freshman and succeeds, but you seem to want to use the redshirt of Taylor as if his losses count that year.

NCAA titles are the ultimate goal, and absolutely carry more weight than record alone. Dake is a year ahead of Taylor and he has three already. If in your mind you think Taylor has to face Dake to prove something, then I hope you get to see it. I want to see it as well, but I don't need it for proof. Proof is on the mat, I see it every time they wrestle.

Taylor's downfall is that he's extremely offensive. He doesn't wrestle safe, he goes for it always. This leaves him vulnerable to counters. If you think that because Dake wrestles safe, that he is a better wrestler, then we just have different opinions of what good wrestling is.

I hope that wrestling evolves to the inferior style of Taylor more than the superior style of Dake. Don't think I am alone on this one either.

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"whether a wrestler red shirts or not has no bearing". kidding me right. why due you thank people red shirt. some arent ready for college wrestling as a freshman so they need to red shirt. you thank taylor might of lost 2 or 3 matches as a true freshman?? i do as well as many others, but we will never know cause he chose to red shirt as dake didnt. if dake chose to red shirt he may as weel be a 2 timer with 1 loss or maybe none we will never know.

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Dake has losses to LeValley and Vinson among others. These guys were 7th place finishers in their best years. Dake has been lucky with easy weight classes facing a freshman Montel Marion for his first title, Molinaro, who is no match for DT for his 2nd title, and facing an injured St. John for his 3rd title. St. John when healthy only finished in fourth place last year in DT's bracket. I've seen Dake struggle against far too many non-all-americans to know he is not in the same league as DT. Dake is more in the same league with a Zach Bailey and Reece Humphrey splitting close decisions with Bailey and Humphrey.

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Wait a minute, this topic switches from best career to best wrestler. If they never wrestle another match, Dake had the better career. 10 years from now the giddiness over Taylor's potential will be forgotten. 3 titles in 3 tries vs 1 out of 2 tries.

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Im about to blow some minds...Just because you have more NCAA titles doesnt mean youre the better wrestler.

 

True. But around this forum having 3 titles means nothing as well.

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Wait a minute, this topic switches from best career to best wrestler. If they never wrestle another match, Dake had the better career. 10 years from now the giddiness over Taylor's potential will be forgotten. 3 titles in 3 tries vs 1 out of 2 tries.
Based on what you're saying we can all agree that Dake's career is better than Dan Gable's career. That's silly. David Taylor is a Sophomore and hasn't event had time to win his first Olympic Gold Medal yet. Give it time lad, give it time. It's really too soon to be comparing careers. It's obvious that Dake is no match for DT.

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Taylor is currently the best pound for pound wrestler.....There should be no questions asked... he dominated at NCAA, bonused almost everyone, and is the current Hodge...

 

Dake has the better career on paper thus far... he has 3 titles at 3 different weight classes..and is going for his fourth.

 

On a quick glimpse one would assume that Dake is the superior wrestler because of his resume....however.. if you look deeper into it Dake doesn't dominate everyone the way Taylor does...

 

I have a very hard time seeing Taylor ever lose another career match...He is the most technically sound wrestler I have ever seen....Dake is one of the best riders in college...people are afraid to choose bottom against him... Taylor may be just as good with all his tilts... I'd say Taylor is better at neutral and is probably the slight favorite in this matchup.

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