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Big10fan

Taylor will go to 157 to wrestle Dake

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Absolutely.

 

Is he good? Yes. But I think there are MANY that are way better that are only 2 or 3 timers. I also believe Dake has had the easiest route possible, not to discredit him at all. The chips just happened to fall his way.

 

I'm not a betting man but I would put big bucks on DT beating Dake 10 out of 10 times. He's THAT much better!

 

Call me crazy, but it's entirely possible with enough time in the room this offseason, next season with Andrew, Cael, Ruth and Sanderson that Dylan closes the gap!

 

Wait and see.

 

Only PSU haters or NJ lovers fail to think outside the box when it comes to Dake.

 

Dake is from New York and you would have said the 10/10 prediction about Taylor-Jenkins before the 2011 NCAA finals. I'm not going to touch the other issues with your post, and there are MANY (your words). I'm saying this as someone who thinks Taylor would beat Dake.

 

Big difference. Bubba knew Taylor way more than anyone else. And as good as Taylor was his RS Fresh year, he's way better now. And I don't recall anyone ever talking about Bubba/DT. It was all DT/Fittery and we all seen what happened twice. The same Fittery that decked DSJ the same night.

 

Sorry about the NJ comment, I meant NY.

 

I can't stress enough that people need to start supporting DT now, because in a few years he'll be repping the Red,White and Blue!

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[highlight=#ecf3f7]If I had a dime for every time someone would post how KD couldn't beat Humphrey, or KD couldn't beat Molinaro , or KD couldn't beat St John, etc, etc, etc, well ... I'd guess I'd be rich![/highlight]

 

No you wouldn't. Find me one post of someone asserting Dake couldn't beat Molinaro or couldn't beat St John. Skikayaker's post does deserve ridicule, but those aren't good examples. Dake has been generally under-appreciated and underrated by many on here, but all of his wins sophomore and junior years were expected. People said that Caldwell would beat him, which was faulty because of how different Caldwell looked with the injury, but we never got to see that match. Dake had big wins too early in his freshman year for people to have much doubt as to individual match-ups, he was the #1 seed going into NCAAs.

 

Skikayaker, it goes beyond bias to silliness with your prediction that Taylor rolls through Olympic Team Trials including beating Burroughs. Taylor could eventually be the best in the world, but today? First of all, he's better suited for folkstyle with his scrambling and mat skills. He doesn't have the defense or efficiency with his offensive attacks yet to be the best in the world, the latter of which helped Burroughs adjust very quickly to freestyle. Taylor can score points on anyone, but he'll have to train freestyle more to be favored against the Paulsons let alone Burroughs. I won't be surprised if he upsets one of the Paulsons or Marable, but will be completely and utterly shocked if he beats Burroughs. It will definitely be an exciting match though if we get to see it.

 

 

 

Really one post? I could give you 2 names NJWC and ScarletKnight. What's your point? I can't believe you even made that statement. That topic right there are 90% of forum posts. HAHA:roll:

 

Molinaro

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4388&p=49764&hilit=dake+molinaro#p49975

 

St John

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12359&start=0&hilit=dake+st+john

 

It happens all the time, someone says so and so can't beat so and so.

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Funny, I read both threads you provided, and I don't see anywhere in either where I stated Dake could (or couldn't) beat Molinaro.

Can you find the thread that I made that statement?

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I don't see them meeting at 157. If they meet at 162 or 165, Taylor wins 5-2. I see him converting two ankle picks and getting an escape, with Dake getting two escapes. I just don't see Dake going on offense enough to get a TD, but even if he does and converts one, he still loses by one.

Shoot holes in that all you want, but that is genuinely what I think will happen, and it is not intended to be a knock on Dake. I am not arguing careers; wait til we see the whole picture lest we be guilty of premature enunciation.

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I apologize. It was Caldwell/Dake I was referring to not Molinaro.

 

Yep, so what I said originally was pretty much spot on, especially considering I mentioned the Caldwell example for you in my response. No one said Dake couldn't beat DSJ, and scarletknight (not exactly a credible poster) simply picked DSJ. Everybody and his mother expected Dake to win his last two NCAA finals matches, he wasn't defying the naysayers by winning, but that fact is part of what makes him underrated, he doesn't get as much credit for big wins because it's expected to beat those guys.

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I tend to agree with Anklepicker. IMO, Taylor is more "valuable" to a team because of his bonus points (though Dake did have a few pins at NCAAs) but Dake would probably win head to head and overall is the "better" wrestler. Without question Dake has competed against and beaten higher caliber opponents. Unless your name is Cael, the fact that you can blow out 98% of folks doesn't mean that you can beat the top 2% even if that top 2% doesn't wrestle the same wide open style.

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I tend to agree with Anklepicker. IMO, Taylor is more "valuable" to a team because of his bonus points (though Dake did have a few pins at NCAAs) but Dake would probably win head to head and overall is the "better" wrestler. Without question Dake has competed against and beaten higher caliber opponents. Unless your name is Cael, the fact that you can blow out 98% of folks doesn't mean that you can beat the top 2% even if that top 2% doesn't wrestle the same wide open style.

 

And what in the world would ever lead you to believe Dake would win head to head? Because he has 3 titles? Is that it? Seriously, I am wondering..

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Pretty simple. I don't think either guy can turn the other. I don't think either guy can hold the other down, and both would have a chance at a reversal but I give Dake a little better of a chance for a reversal based on the way they both wrestle. But the bigger point is that Taylor is more succeptable to giving up a takedown. Taylor gave up a couple of takedowns at NCAAs both this year and last, certainly more than Dake has. (And he gave up those takedowns to wrestlers who are inferior to Dake.)

 

Taylor can ring up the scoreboard more than Dake usually does, but that wouldn't come in to play against Dake. Taylor gives up takedowns, and that would be the difference. I see it as 4-2 Dake, something like that. I'm not sayin Taylor couldn't win, he could. But if they wrestled 10 times, I'd give 7 to Dake.

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Im about to blow some minds...Just because you have more NCAA titles doesnt mean youre the better wrestler.

 

 

I'm about to blow your mind: most people aren't saying that it does.

 

 

I think it's lazy to simply regurgitate NCAA finishes and then conclude one wrestler is better than another. Jordan Burroughs isn't even a 4x All American and he's one of the best wrestlers I've ever watched. Mark Perry had higher average finishes than Hendricks, but there's not many people who would say that Mark was the better wrestler(and it was proven time and time again Johny was the better guy).

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Im about to blow some minds...Just because you have more NCAA titles doesnt mean youre the better wrestler.

 

 

I'm about to blow your mind: most people aren't saying that it does.

 

 

I think it's lazy to simply regurgitate NCAA finishes and then conclude one wrestler is better than another. Jordan Burroughs isn't even a 4x All American and he's one of the best wrestlers I've ever watched. Mark Perry had higher average finishes than Hendricks, but there's not many people who would say that Mark was the better wrestler(and it was proven time and time again Johny was the better guy).

 

Again, nobody is saying it makes him the better wrestler; it just makes him the more accomplished wrestler.

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Dake has losses to LeValley and Vinson among others. These guys were 7th place finishers in their best years. Dake has been lucky with easy weight classes facing a freshman Montel Marion for his first title, Molinaro, who is no match for DT for his 2nd title, and facing an injured St. John for his 3rd title. St. John when healthy only finished in fourth place last year in DT's bracket. I've seen Dake struggle against far too many non-all-americans to know he is not in the same league as DT. Dake is more in the same league with a Zach Bailey and Reece Humphrey splitting close decisions with Bailey and Humphrey.

 

Like LeValley and Vinson are chopped liver. You cannot be serious...those were two top quality wrestlers - NCAA finish is not the only measure of a wrestlers quality/greatness.

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Dake has losses to LeValley and Vinson among others. These guys were 7th place finishers in their best years. Dake has been lucky with easy weight classes facing a freshman Montel Marion for his first title, Molinaro, who is no match for DT for his 2nd title, and facing an injured St. John for his 3rd title. St. John when healthy only finished in fourth place last year in DT's bracket. I've seen Dake struggle against far too many non-all-americans to know he is not in the same league as DT. Dake is more in the same league with a Zach Bailey and Reece Humphrey splitting close decisions with Bailey and Humphrey.

 

A. It must be tough watching NCAA's from the message board. Either that or you only take your head out of the popcorn bucket to watch PSU wrestle. Did you not watch Vinson take 3rd this year raping his way through the wrestle backs??

 

B. "Dake has been lucky" You can't post this crap then look at yourself in the mirror. 14 all americans in his weight when he won it as a freshman, since you referenced it.

 

C. DSJ: Dake dominated the match and DSJ healthy or not couldn't so much as touch his legs or get off the bottom. I recall some pretty good scrambles between DSJ and DT last year. DT won in nice fashion in their series of matches but I wouldn't consider those wins any more dominating than that of Dake's.

 

 

If you can't see or appreciate the wrestling style difference between the two than keep enjoying your blue/white colored glasses.

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I realize I got the placement wrong regarding Vinson's 3rd place finish and actually posted a positive post in a thread acknowledging his remarkable accomplishment wrestling all the way back to the podium. None of these guys are chop liver. I've posted the Win Mag article on here, along with the flow videos about the last time DT switched weight classes to face a formidable opponent. Not everyone will switch weight classes to take on a three time national champ. DT is to be commended for this. The premise for this entire thread is related to Jeff Byers commenting in an internet radio program that he heard DT say he's going to go to Dake's weight class if necessary to make the match happen.

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The more I think about it, the more I think it's premature to discuss who has the better career. Shoot, Taylor is just halfway through. If it ends up like this: 2 titles + 2 Hodges vs. 4 titles in 3 weight classes

 

 

Who has the better career then? Do you go with the guy with more titles? Or do you go with the guy that has titles and Hodges? What if Taylor has three titles (something many think will happen)? What about 2 vs. 3? Or 3 vs. 3?

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The more I think about it, the more I think it's premature to discuss who has the better career. Shoot, Taylor is just halfway through. If it ends up like this: 2 titles + 2 Hodges vs. 4 titles in 3 weight classes

 

 

Who has the better career then? Do you go with the guy with more titles? Or do you go with the guy that has titles and Hodges? What if Taylor has three titles (something many think will happen)? What about 2 vs. 3? Or 3 vs. 3?

 

NCAA titles are won on the mat so I would go with the guy who has the most titles not a award that is voted on by a committee.

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The more I think about it, the more I think it's premature to discuss who has the better career. Shoot, Taylor is just halfway through. If it ends up like this: 2 titles + 2 Hodges vs. 4 titles in 3 weight classes

 

 

Who has the better career then? Do you go with the guy with more titles? Or do you go with the guy that has titles and Hodges? What if Taylor has three titles (something many think will happen)? What about 2 vs. 3? Or 3 vs. 3?

 

NCAA titles are won on the mat so I would go with the guy who has the most titles not a award that is voted on by a committee.

 

Of course you would! There is no discussion as far as your concerned.

 

Sorry, but if a guy has 2 or 3 hodges and 3 titles with only 1-2 career losses, he is that DUDE! Dake wins, Taylor DOMINATES!

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The more I think about it, the more I think it's premature to discuss who has the better career. Shoot, Taylor is just halfway through. If it ends up like this: 2 titles + 2 Hodges vs. 4 titles in 3 weight classes

 

 

Who has the better career then? Do you go with the guy with more titles? Or do you go with the guy that has titles and Hodges? What if Taylor has three titles (something many think will happen)? What about 2 vs. 3? Or 3 vs. 3?

 

NCAA titles are won on the mat so I would go with the guy who has the most titles not a award that is voted on by a committee.

 

Of course you would! There is no discussion as far as your concerned.

 

Sorry, but if a guy has 2 or 3 hodges and 3 titles with only 1-2 career losses, he is that DUDE! Dake wins, Taylor DOMINATES!

 

What is your definition of dominates? Other than Humphrey, Dake has not had a close match in 15 Tournament matches. In 2012, He had 3 pins beat a very good super defensive Sanjaa 4-0 and basically repeated the same situation with St. John winning 4-1. I would say that was a SUPER dominant championship. In 2011, He won 9-0, 8-0, 3-0, 4-0 and 8-1 riding for 6+ minutes. Seems RIDICULOUSLY dominant to me. BY the way that is 2 pts scored against him in 10 matches over 2 championships. In 2010, He won 4-1, Pin, 11-0, 3-2 against HUMPHREY and 7-3 giving up a late takedown. Again that looks pretty dominant for a true freshman in the DIV I tournament.

 

So out of a total of 15 matches that is 8 pts scored against him with only one takedown against. I would call that INCREDIBLY dominant.

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What is your definition of dominates? Other than Humphrey, Dake has not had a close match in 15 Tournament matches. In 2012, He had 3 pins beat a very good super defensive Sanjaa 4-0 and basically repeated the same situation with St. John winning 4-1. I would say that was a SUPER dominant championship. In 2011, He won 9-0, 8-0, 3-0, 4-0 and 8-1 riding for 6+ minutes. Seems RIDICULOUSLY dominant to me. BY the way that is 2 pts scored against him in 10 matches over 2 championships. In 2010, He won 4-1, Pin, 11-0, 3-2 against HUMPHREY and 7-3 giving up a late takedown. Again that looks pretty dominant for a true freshman in the DIV I tournament.

 

So out of a total of 15 matches that is 8 pts scored against him with only one takedown against. I would call that INCREDIBLY dominant.

 

 

Exactly.

 

By the same idiotic logic that these gurus profess, Exactly who has Taylor beaten enroute to his title??

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