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Taylor will go to 157 to wrestle Dake

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WHAT IF.....

 

Taylor drops down for one match at 157 at the Southern Scuffle and beats Kyle Dake, but then Kyle Dake still wins his 4th national title while Taylor gets 2nd at 165 at nationals to Caldwell (or somebody else)?

 

Would WIN magazine give the Hodge to Dake out of respect for his 4 titles? I wouldn't object to this. However what if, say, Stieber(133), Oliver/Maple(141) and Ruth/Howe(174) go undefeated at different weights? And let's not forget about McD(125).

 

Could anyone imagine a year that an individual wins their 4th title and DOES NOT win the Hodge?

 

 

The 2011-12 season had 4 undefeated champions and arguably the closest Hodge race ever.

 

2012-13 could easily top that. I can't wait for this season!

 

All this conjecture on this thread was funny until we saw Taylor wrestle Dake this summer, and Dake teched him. Imagine that, Taylor actually gets to wrestle people good enough to beat him and he gets handled, convincingly ... that's 2 in a row. Dake is better than Taylor right now and that does not seem to be changing anytime soon, and this isn't conjecture, this is results.

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Dake is better than Taylor right now and that does not seem to be changing anytime soon, and this isn't conjecture, this is results.

 

Prior to their Univ World Trials finals, you could replace Dake with Molinaro and Taylor with Chamberlin and you'd have had no argument. Different rules can lead to different results but no doubt Dake is the favorite if they match-up this coming season.

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Dake couldn't beat a less then 100% St. John by more then 3 and had to run to preserve victory but he is the favorite over Taylor in Folk, yea ok. That's quality logic, almost as good as using freestyle results with unequal recovery time.

 

Scribe, you have to be out of your mind if you think Dake deserved the Hodge over Taylor. Have you ever read the criteria? DT had one the most dominant seasons in the history of college wrestling. Heck Ruth has a much better argument to get the award over Taylor then Dake did.

 

Man, I would love to see Taylor vs Dake at the All-Star classic. All you clowns would be back peddling so quick. Please make it be NWCA!

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You don't have to lecture me on who won the hodge. It's gonna be very telling if wrestling lets one of its best collegiate wrestlers get through college without one of its heisman awards.

 

Allstar classic: koll doesn't participate in it. Which means Taylor will have to cut down somewhere to get ANOTHER crack at Dake. Come and get it!

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Dake couldn't beat a less then 100% St. John by more then 3 and had to run to preserve victory but he is the favorite over Taylor in Folk, yea ok. That's quality logic, almost as good as using freestyle results with unequal recovery time.

 

Scribe, you have to be out of your mind if you think Dake deserved the Hodge over Taylor. Have you ever read the criteria? DT had one the most dominant seasons in the history of college wrestling. Heck Ruth has a much better argument to get the award over Taylor then Dake did.

 

Man, I would love to see Taylor vs Dake at the All-Star classic. All you clowns would be back peddling so quick. Please make it be NWCA!

 

You must be out of your mind to think that there is no correlation between freestyle and folk.

As soon as you let us in on the part of the DSJ match where Dake was in danger we may consider your expert opinion.

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Overlooking all that Taylor has accomplished in his first two years of college wrestling over one freestyle match is sheer ignorance or possibly stupidity. Why don't you go take a look on the international board and see what the knowledgeable posters have to say about the current rules in relation to folkstyle. Hint: there are huge threads about how the differences are pronounced and the rules handicap our guys.

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Overlooking all that Taylor has accomplished in his first two years of college wrestling over one freestyle match is sheer ignorance or possibly stupidity. Why don't you go take a look on the international board and see what the knowledgeable posters have to say about the current rules in relation to folkstyle. Hint: there are huge threads about how the differences are pronounced and the rules handicap our guys.

 

No one is overlooking anything Taylor has done, my assessment as is, what he has done is impressive , however, when he faces competition that is good enough to beat him, he gets handled. Jenkins pinned, and Dake skunked him. While you can say it's free style rules, or whatever, a take down, is a take down ... and last time I checked take downs in FS are identical to those in Folk, and fact is Dake took Taylor down at will. It wasn't close, and it had nothing to do with rules. DAke is just at this point better. Ok , maybe I'll give you Taylor might do well on the mat, I don't see it, I just don't. I'm not comparing Taylor to anyone else but Dake , so what he has accomplished against everyone else is pretty irrelevant, what I did see when he wrestled Dake was someone who was clearly outmatched and I highly doubt style was about to make a difference.

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Overlooking all that Taylor has accomplished in his first two years of college wrestling over one freestyle match is sheer ignorance or possibly stupidity. Why don't you go take a look on the international board and see what the knowledgeable posters have to say about the current rules in relation to folkstyle. Hint: there are huge threads about how the differences are pronounced and the rules handicap our guys.

I've seen all that and could care less. It is all a bunch of excuses if you ask me silenced by the performances of our 3 medalists and the refusal of some (LIMarty etal) to recognize the effect of the USSR going down.

 

I recognize DT's accomplishments and they are impressive. He is also fun to watch as most of the PSU wrestlers are. However, when you flip the coin and refuse to recognize the 3 years worth of accomplishments of Dake, then take it a step further and say Dake was running to preserve a match that was never in doubt is sheer ignorance and stupidity.

 

When 2 greats face off, it comes down to Takedowns, just like Freestyle.

Hint: What qualifies one for "a knowledgeable poster"?? One who you agree with??

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Overlooking all that Taylor has accomplished in his first two years of college wrestling over one freestyle match is sheer ignorance or possibly stupidity. Why don't you go take a look on the international board and see what the knowledgeable posters have to say about the current rules in relation to folkstyle. Hint: there are huge threads about how the differences are pronounced and the rules handicap our guys.

 

No one is overlooking anything Taylor has done, my assessment as is, what he has done is impressive , however, when he faces competition that is good enough to beat him, he gets handled. Jenkins pinned, and Dake skunked him. While you can say it's free style rules, or whatever, a take down, is a take down ... and last time I checked take downs in FS are identical to those in Folk, and fact is Dake took Taylor down at will. It wasn't close, and it had nothing to do with rules. DAke is just at this point better. Ok , maybe I'll give you Taylor might do well on the mat, I don't see it, I just don't. I'm not comparing Taylor to anyone else but Dake , so what he has accomplished against everyone else is pretty irrelevant, what I did see when he wrestled Dake was someone who was clearly outmatched and I highly doubt style was about to make a difference.

 

 

Not going to get in this debate, merely want to point out your freestyle inaccuracies. Yes a td is a td, but the process you have to go through to get there can be very different. There are many finishing methods that are not able to be used in free that there are in folk. Why do you think Metcalf all of a sudden cant get takedowns against guys he is better at from neutral?

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Overlooking all that Taylor has accomplished in his first two years of college wrestling over one freestyle match is sheer ignorance or possibly stupidity. Why don't you go take a look on the international board and see what the knowledgeable posters have to say about the current rules in relation to folkstyle. Hint: there are huge threads about how the differences are pronounced and the rules handicap our guys.

 

No one is overlooking anything Taylor has done, my assessment as is, what he has done is impressive , however, when he faces competition that is good enough to beat him, he gets handled. Jenkins pinned, and Dake skunked him. While you can say it's free style rules, or whatever, a take down, is a take down ... and last time I checked take downs in FS are identical to those in Folk, and fact is Dake took Taylor down at will. It wasn't close, and it had nothing to do with rules. DAke is just at this point better. Ok , maybe I'll give you Taylor might do well on the mat, I don't see it, I just don't. I'm not comparing Taylor to anyone else but Dake , so what he has accomplished against everyone else is pretty irrelevant, what I did see when he wrestled Dake was someone who was clearly outmatched and I highly doubt style was about to make a difference.

 

 

Not going to get in this debate, merely want to point out your freestyle inaccuracies. Yes a td is a td, but the process you have to go through to get there can be very different. There are many finishing methods that are not able to be used in free that there are in folk. Why do you think Metcalf all of a sudden cant get takedowns against guys he is better at from neutral?

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Overlooking all that Taylor has accomplished in his first two years of college wrestling over one freestyle match is sheer ignorance or possibly stupidity. Why don't you go take a look on the international board and see what the knowledgeable posters have to say about the current rules in relation to folkstyle. Hint: there are huge threads about how the differences are pronounced and the rules handicap our guys.

 

No one is overlooking anything Taylor has done, my assessment as is, what he has done is impressive , however, when he faces competition that is good enough to beat him, he gets handled. Jenkins pinned, and Dake skunked him. While you can say it's free style rules, or whatever, a take down, is a take down ... and last time I checked take downs in FS are identical to those in Folk, and fact is Dake took Taylor down at will. It wasn't close, and it had nothing to do with rules. DAke is just at this point better. Ok , maybe I'll give you Taylor might do well on the mat, I don't see it, I just don't. I'm not comparing Taylor to anyone else but Dake , so what he has accomplished against everyone else is pretty irrelevant, what I did see when he wrestled Dake was someone who was clearly outmatched and I highly doubt style was about to make a difference.

 

 

Not going to get in this debate, merely want to point out your freestyle inaccuracies. Yes a td is a td, but the process you have to go through to get there can be very different. There are many finishing methods that are not able to be used in free that there are in folk. Why do you think Metcalf all of a sudden cant get takedowns against guys he is better at from neutral?

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Metcalf is struggling because there is no third period. And nothing but short lung breaks along the way.

 

 

Yeah, I do remember Metcalf giving up the first TD vs Jenkins and Caldwell in nearly every match. In freestyle that's enough to get you to the break.

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Overlooking all that Taylor has accomplished in his first two years of college wrestling over one freestyle match is sheer ignorance or possibly stupidity. Why don't you go take a look on the international board and see what the knowledgeable posters have to say about the current rules in relation to folkstyle. Hint: there are huge threads about how the differences are pronounced and the rules handicap our guys.

I've seen all that and could care less. It is all a bunch of excuses if you ask me silenced by the performances of our 3 medalists and the refusal of some (LIMarty etal) to recognize the effect of the USSR going down.

 

I recognize DT's accomplishments and they are impressive. He is also fun to watch as most of the PSU wrestlers are. However, when you flip the coin and refuse to recognize the 3 years worth of accomplishments of Dake, then take it a step further and say Dake was running to preserve a match that was never in doubt is sheer ignorance and stupidity.

 

When 2 greats face off, it comes down to Takedowns, just like Freestyle.

Hint: What qualifies one for "a knowledgeable poster"?? One who you agree with??

 

Dake has more losses then Taylor and none of them came from a National Champ. Funny how you remember Taylor's ONLY loss but fail to address Dake's MULITPLE losses to guys who never made the finals. You know that Dake didn't win his conference one year, right? Or is that conveniently forgotten as well.

 

You obviously also aren't aware that Taylor and Dake have multiple common opponents and DT has won by more in almost EVERY match and never won by less. See the fundamental problem here is you have no argument without using freestyle and freestyle is not folk. Taylor lost to St. John and Poltz in freestyle, two guys he majored in folk, yea those matches were real predictive of a folk style match. :roll:

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Overlooking all that Taylor has accomplished in his first two years of college wrestling over one freestyle match is sheer ignorance or possibly stupidity. Why don't you go take a look on the international board and see what the knowledgeable posters have to say about the current rules in relation to folkstyle. Hint: there are huge threads about how the differences are pronounced and the rules handicap our guys.

 

No one is overlooking anything Taylor has done, my assessment as is, what he has done is impressive , however, when he faces competition that is good enough to beat him, he gets handled. Jenkins pinned, and Dake skunked him. While you can say it's free style rules, or whatever, a take down, is a take down ... and last time I checked take downs in FS are identical to those in Folk, and fact is Dake took Taylor down at will. It wasn't close, and it had nothing to do with rules. DAke is just at this point better. Ok , maybe I'll give you Taylor might do well on the mat, I don't see it, I just don't. I'm not comparing Taylor to anyone else but Dake , so what he has accomplished against everyone else is pretty irrelevant, what I did see when he wrestled Dake was someone who was clearly outmatched and I highly doubt style was about to make a difference.

 

Dake has more losses then Taylor and none of them came from a National Champ. Funny how you remember Taylor's ONLY loss but fail to address Dake's MULITPLE losses to guys who never made the finals. You know that Dake didn't win his conference one year, right? Or is that conveniently forgotten as well.

 

You obviously also aren't aware that Taylor and Dake have multiple common opponents and DT has won by more in almost EVERY match and never won by less. See the fundamental problem here is you have no argument without using freestyle and freestyle is not folk. Taylor lost to St. John and Poltz in freestyle, two guys he majored in folk, yea those matches were real predictive of a folk style matches :roll:

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Not going to get in this debate, merely want to point out your freestyle inaccuracies. Yes a td is a td, but the process you have to go through to get there can be very different. There are many finishing methods that are not able to be used in free that there are in folk. Why do you think Metcalf all of a sudden cant get takedowns against guys he is better at from neutral?

 

 

Good example with Metcalf.

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Metcalf is struggling because there is no third period. And nothing but short lung breaks along the way.

 

Hmm, im going to do some digging all the way back to the last match Metcalf wrestled to find a match where Metcalf lost in the 3rd period.

 

Nice theory but not accurate.

 

He gets exposed a lot when he shoots. It didnt matter in folk.

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