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Big10fan

Taylor will go to 157 to wrestle Dake

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The sad part about this thread is that the wrestlers have mutual respect and admiration for one another.

I know Dake and Taylor talk pretty regularly and I believe they did at least one clinic together this summer.

 

It gets old reading posts from several of you so called wrestling fans. Taylor and Dake are destined to go down as two of the absolute best in NCAA and possibly US wrestling history.

 

Think about it when you're all puffed up and high fiving your wife because of your fantastic post on the forum.

 

Your endless dick measuring contests mean absolutely nothing other than the fact that most of ya are compensating for something.

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Not going to get in this debate, merely want to point out your freestyle inaccuracies. Yes a td is a td, but the process you have to go through to get there can be very different. There are many finishing methods that are not able to be used in free that there are in folk. Why do you think Metcalf all of a sudden cant get takedowns against guys he is better at from neutral?

 

 

Good example with Metcalf.

 

Metcalf is struggling in free because as a technician he doesn't compare to the top guys in the world. You notice that in international wrestling these guys are excellent finisher and have incredible defense and they can't use funk. The bottom line is yes Metcalf could grind out people in folk but bottom line the level of competition on the international scene is simply much much much better than what is available in college, so Metcalfs non-technical style simply doesn't work against those guys it has nothing to do with lungs. It could be a 10 minute match and Metcalf isn't taking those guys down. Notice our best wrestlers in Free were guys who are exceptionally technical or have 1 or 2 moves that are simply technically superior. John Smiths ankle pick and low single, Burroughs blast double, Mondays gut wrench ... etc ... the point is Metcalf as a grinder isn't technically proficient enough yet to hang with the top guys, it has nothing to do with break. Tsargush's low single, and turning the corner was one of the most beautiful moves I saw in the olympics, and point blank it wasn't a thing Burroughs could do about it. Guys on the international scene , pick and choose, it's far more of a chess match and mental game ... you come in with that weak grind, grind, grind attitude you'll just end up like Metcalf.

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The sad part about this thread is that the wrestlers have mutual respect and admiration for one another.

I know Dake and Taylor talk pretty regularly and I believe they did at least one clinic together this summer.

 

It gets old reading posts from several of you so called wrestling fans. Taylor and Dake are destined to go down as two of the absolute best in NCAA and possibly US wrestling history.

 

Think about it when you're all puffed up and high fiving your wife because of your fantastic post on the forum.

 

Your endless dick measuring contests mean absolutely nothing other than the fact that most of ya are compensating for something.

 

Threadkilla while your point is noted no one asked for it. And the fact is I don't think nary a person here is friends with either, so we can conjecture, pontificate, and argue amongst ourselves as much as we would like.

 

Thanks for playing now back to that bridge, troll.

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The sad part about this thread is that the wrestlers have mutual respect and admiration for one another.

I know Dake and Taylor talk pretty regularly and I believe they did at least one clinic together this summer.

 

It gets old reading posts from several of you so called wrestling fans. Taylor and Dake are destined to go down as two of the absolute best in NCAA and possibly US wrestling history.

 

Think about it when you're all puffed up and high fiving your wife because of your fantastic post on the forum.

 

Your endless dick measuring contests mean absolutely nothing other than the fact that most of ya are compensating for something.

 

Threadkilla while your point is noted no one asked for it. And the fact is I don't think nary a person here is friends with either, so we can conjecture, pontificate, and argue amongst ourselves as much as we would like.

 

Thanks for playing now back to that bridge, troll.

 

 

 

Awww, don't get your panties in a bunch Cinderella. Acadia calling me a troll. heh Elitist pontificating blowhard. buahhh

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The thing with Metcalf is you would think he could win along the same lines of Terry and Tom. It's like he is programmed to do, the way they'd do it, but just isn't quite getting it done consistently.

 

The only thing I can figure is it is the lack of accumulation of points through the entire match, under the rules the Brands won.

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The sad part about this thread is that the wrestlers have mutual respect and admiration for one another.

I know Dake and Taylor talk pretty regularly and I believe they did at least one clinic together this summer.

 

It gets old reading posts from several of you so called wrestling fans. Taylor and Dake are destined to go down as two of the absolute best in NCAA and possibly US wrestling history.

 

Think about it when you're all puffed up and high fiving your wife because of your fantastic post on the forum.

 

Your endless dick measuring contests mean absolutely nothing other than the fact that most of ya are compensating for something.

 

 

For the record, I've never lost a dick-measuring contest with my wife (so far).

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Not going to get in this debate, merely want to point out your freestyle inaccuracies. Yes a td is a td, but the process you have to go through to get there can be very different. There are many finishing methods that are not able to be used in free that there are in folk. Why do you think Metcalf all of a sudden cant get takedowns against guys he is better at from neutral?

 

 

Good example with Metcalf.

 

Metcalf is struggling in free because as a technician he doesn't compare to the top guys in the world. You notice that in international wrestling these guys are excellent finisher and have incredible defense and they can't use funk. The bottom line is yes Metcalf could grind out people in folk but bottom line the level of competition on the international scene is simply much much much better than what is available in college, so Metcalfs non-technical style simply doesn't work against those guys it has nothing to do with lungs. It could be a 10 minute match and Metcalf isn't taking those guys down. Notice our best wrestlers in Free were guys who are exceptionally technical or have 1 or 2 moves that are simply technically superior. John Smiths ankle pick and low single, Burroughs blast double, Mondays gut wrench ... etc ... the point is Metcalf as a grinder isn't technically proficient enough yet to hang with the top guys, it has nothing to do with break. Tsargush's low single, and turning the corner was one of the most beautiful moves I saw in the olympics, and point blank it wasn't a thing Burroughs could do about it. Guys on the international scene , pick and choose, it's far more of a chess match and mental game ... you come in with that weak grind, grind, grind attitude you'll just end up like Metcalf.

 

Great response.

I don't remember too many ankle picks from John Smith but hey, what do I know?

I thought he had a great High Crotch and "John Smith Single".

 

Anyway your Metcalf analysis I agree with 100%.

He was fun to watch in College because he was able to bully guys with old school handfighting

and eventually wear guys down. He has good shots to both sides but faulters once in to stay in position to finish.

 

Tsargush has a great sweep single, and when he is not grabbing the singlet on the left side to set it up he foot sweeps off a russian tie to get it. Everytime he is in, he finishes. Flawless set up and technical position.

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I find it pretty funny that all the guys who were so hard up about the "Dake will handle Taylor in Folk because he handled him in Free" argument in this thread, pretty much just stopped in their tracks when FT pointed out the fact that Taylor also lost to St John and Poltz in freestyle, I bet nobody would use that argument to say St John would beat Taylor...and if they did they would obviously be completely wrong because he completely handled him in folk, multiple times.

 

Bottom line is, the freestyle result will mean nothing in regards to a folkstyle match up, and it is very clear and obvious if you know the rules and follow each style.

 

Now, that being said, that does not mean that Dake couldn't or wouldn't beat Taylor in free (although id put my money on Taylor as a matter of opinion)...Dake would actually probably have to be a slight favorite if you were an odds maker...it just means that the basis of the argument can and should not be "because he beat him handily in freestyle...he can obviously beat him in folk".

 

It is simple, that argument is demonstrably false and nonsensical, given free/folk results of other wrestlers and matchups. If you want to say that Dake can/will beat Taylor in folk, fine, you are on perfectly reasonable grounds to do so. But when you sight some reasons why you are of this opinion, stick to things like he is a 3 time National Champ, a monster on top, better technician, etc, etc, etc. Don't use the ridiculous freestyle result...because for the last time, it is nonsense...for many reasons.

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I couldn't take the time to read through 8 pages of this thread, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned. In the 1975 all-star meet, Lee Kemp dropped down a weight to wrestle Chuck Yagla (Iowa). The previous season both were at 150 and Yagla beat Kemp in the NCAA finals with a ref's decision. The next season Kemp was up to 158, but with the five pound allowance given fot the meet Kemp dropped down to challenge Yagla and beat him. Subsequently, Kemp went back up to 158 for the rest of the season (and they both ended up as NCAA champs that year).

 

So....

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I find it pretty funny that all the guys who were so hard up about the "Dake will handle Taylor in Folk because he handled him in Free" argument in this thread, pretty much just stopped in their tracks when FT pointed out the fact that Taylor also lost to St John and Poltz in freestyle, I bet nobody would use that argument to say St John would beat Taylor...and if they did they would obviously be completely wrong because he completely handled him in folk, multiple times.

 

 

Good point. The rebuttals to your above point, which are sure to follow, end up sounding just like Taylor's fans rationalizing his loss to Jenkins.

 

If you're a Penn State fan the freestyle match somehow means nothing. If you like Dake or dislike Taylor, then Dake beats Taylor 9 or 10/10 matches.

 

I'll take Dake in the next match regardless of style, but there isn't a poster on here who would actually be surprised if Taylor came away with a win.

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If anything makes sense, it would be Dake going up a weight for a dual meet just once ( do they dual each other this year?) or for a single tournament to meet Taylor.

 

Otherwise, its sort of dumb unless Kyle keeps growing- which it sounds like he keeps packing it on from what I saw and what I hear.

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For the record madcat, it's not that I think the match means nothing. Kyle Dake showed that right now he is the better international prospect and I have never argued anything otherwise. I was impressed with how well he did last year when he moved up to 163 after wrestling 149 during the college season. I do think the unequal recovery time did have some effect on the match, but I'm not saying Taylor would of won, just that it would of been more competitive. The pissing matches break out when the result is used to diminish what DT has done or to support an argument that Dake would be the clear favorite in folk.

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Here they are a few weeks ago coaching kids together in Deptford NJ:

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/249675-Taylor-Dake-NJ-Camp/video/654444-Taylor-and-Dake-NJ-Camp

I enjoyed the vid...thanks for posting. I must say, Dake seems as though he really enjoys working with youngsters. I'm a huge PSU and Taylor fan but I don't know how anyone out there could dislike Kyle and not wish the best for the kid. If I were to call it, I'd say his mamma raised him right.

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If anything makes sense, it would be Dake going up a weight for a dual meet just once ( do they dual each other this year?) or for a single tournament to meet Taylor.

 

Otherwise, its sort of dumb unless Kyle keeps growing- which it sounds like he keeps packing it on from what I saw and what I hear.

Dake has no reason to go up after Taylor. They both graduated HS 3 years ago, in that time Dake has 3 NCAA title to one for Taylor. Taylor left the weight class that Dake went into. They wrestled head to head over the summer and Dake broke and destroyed Taylor. Dake has nothing left to prove re: David Taylor.

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Yeah, but it might be fun for him....a match to look forward to, that's all I'm saying.

 

 

 

If anything makes sense, it would be Dake going up a weight for a dual meet just once ( do they dual each other this year?) or for a single tournament to meet Taylor.

 

Otherwise, its sort of dumb unless Kyle keeps growing- which it sounds like he keeps packing it on from what I saw and what I hear.

Dake has no reason to go up after Taylor. They both graduated HS 3 years ago, in that time Dake has 3 NCAA title to one for Taylor. Taylor left the weight class that Dake went into. They wrestled head to head over the summer and Dake broke and destroyed Taylor. Dake has nothing left to prove re: David Taylor.

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If anything makes sense, it would be Dake going up a weight for a dual meet just once ( do they dual each other this year?) or for a single tournament to meet Taylor.

 

Otherwise, its sort of dumb unless Kyle keeps growing- which it sounds like he keeps packing it on from what I saw and what I hear.

Dake has no reason to go up after Taylor. They both graduated HS 3 years ago, in that time Dake has 3 NCAA title to one for Taylor. Taylor left the weight class that Dake went into. They wrestled head to head over the summer and Dake broke and destroyed Taylor. Dake has nothing left to prove re: David Taylor.

 

Exhibit "A"

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The thing with Metcalf is you would think he could win along the same lines of Terry and Tom. It's like he is programmed to do, the way they'd do it, but just isn't quite getting it done consistently.

 

The only thing I can figure is it is the lack of accumulation of points through the entire match, under the rules the Brands won.

 

 

Rules are much different now. Tom and Terry wouldn't dominate as much. THat said, both guys were also superior Freestylers to Metcalf. But, in all, the current set of rules are not conducive to Metcalf winning the same way those guys did, which is why you have seen gradual changes to Metcalf's base style. He has World Medal potential, but he isn't consistently at that level, and that's just it. He's in the pack as of now, and not at the head of it like he was in FOlkstyle.

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I am struggling to see how T&T were superior. It just looks similar to metcalf.

I am unsure if you're being sarcastic or not but I'll bite.

 

Tom especially was far superior. His shots were much cleaner particularly his sweep single. He also had a great blast double that Metcalf has never hit as he always hits High Crotches instead. Tom was much more physically dominant as well and rarely was out sized as I still Metcalf as small for his respective weights.

 

Terry is much more technical and efficient and rarely forced bad shots.

He too was a monster for his weight.

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