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Tech_fall15

How will Marstellar do in College?

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I would think that Chance not being "perfect" is a good thing. Technique is poor? Well, he was an undefeated 4x PIAA champ with poor technique - thats pretty damn impressive.

 

Now imagine where he will be after Smith has had him for a few months and gets a chance to fix that "poor" technique.

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You do acknowledge it, BUT you basically dismiss it or minimize it by every argument you use immediately after.

 

That is false, I don't dismiss anything MSU158. I take everything into account.

 

Here is the MAJOR difference between your reasoning and everyone disagreeing with you. It seems you attribute roughly 20% or less to injury or illness while a majority with the dissenting opinion attribute 80% or more. My biggest argument AGAINST you is that, I believe, the poor technique you constantly site is a DIRECT by-product of the injury or illness being discussed

 

I don't recall ever giving out a precise percentage to any injury. I've made my arguments in the past MSU, and you didn't respond to all of them then. I'm not up for going over this again right now when you continue to misrepresent my actual position. Maybe at a later date we can go through the entire song and dance. Then again, there may be no point, my position is by far more consistent then any other position that has been put forth. It's also confirmed by McDonough himself and Brands. So actually, it's case closed.

 

I do not have the first hand experience some of the elite on here do, but I do have significant first hand knowledge. In my experience, especially at the DI level, injuries and illnesses are the TOUGHEST opponent ANYONE faces each year. More letdowns by the best of the best can be directly attributed to this than anyone on here realizes. Simply put, a lot have too much pride, not saying that in any negative way, to make any excuses. That doesn't make it ANY less true. Fans simply haven't been exposed to this fact until recently because social media allows us to get inside info not available prior.

 

Okay MSU, thanks for sharing that. With that said, McD's statements are very clear and you have failed to give a compelling reason why I shouldn't take him at his word. His word, and more importantly, reality itself bear witness to the truth of what actually took place.

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One thing you have to give superold credit for is he is 100% consistent. He is NOT a proponent of the injury/illness arguments. If the wrestler gets on the mat it is only his technique that decides if he wins or loses(his stance NOT mine). Although I disagree with him regarding his stance on these topics, I respect the fact that he has not flip-flopped.

 

He once blamed Chance for losing to that Ukrainian after he was INJURED. Not hurt, physically injured. So yeah, superold is really consistent. If Chance ain't perfect, superold will indeed blame him for losing.

 

Something like 174-0 is where Chance ended his career, and the 174 includes more wins (most by bonus) against state champions than anyone I have ever seen, including Kolat. Cary is still the gold standard, but Chance is special.

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I can only recall Chance being taken down 1 time in a folk style high school match. Brill did it in the state title match during Chance's 10th grade year. Within about 2 seconds Chance reversed him.

 

Chance has about 10,000 take downs of his own. So 10,000 to 1. Not bad for a guy with poor technique. LMAO.

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He once blamed Chance for losing to that Ukrainian after he was INJURED. Not hurt, physically injured. So yeah, superold is really consistent. If Chance ain't perfect, superold will indeed blame him for losing.

 

I'm not sure why you choose to say that I "blamed" Chance for losing. I merely mentioned that he was losing before he was injured. Meaning he would have been losing the match even if his elbow had held up at the time of injury.

 

Something like 174-0 is where Chance ended his career, and the 174 includes more wins (most by bonus) against state champions than anyone I have ever seen, including Kolat. Cary is still the gold standard, but Chance is special.

 

What relevance does this have Tbar? And you still haven't given your prediction.

 

Finish the statement: If Marsteller stays healthy throughout his ncaa career he will be a.......?

 

You gave us your predictions on Taylor and Cox this year, why not give us your predictions on Chance?

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Wow, this is going to be even more fun than I thought...

 

He was in on the legs in all three periods. I admitted he was in bad position on the START of ONE single late in the third period. If Chance finishes the single in the second period, he wins the match, per the rules at that time. So stating that the reason he lost the "match" because "he had poor technique on his TD finishes" is FALSE and WRONG.

 

He was in bad position due to poor technique. You have done nothing to show that that is "False and Wrong". Nothing.

 

Yes. I have. And you have shown inability to understand the mere concept of our sport. You do realize that Chance is NOT wrestling a Takedown Dummy, right? I have clearly, and nearly frame by frame diagnosed EXACTLY what it is that Rhoads was able to hit that allowed him to (and I will say this in all caps you understand the sport just a little bit better today) PUT Marsteller in bad position.

 

if anything his technique on his "finishes" were far better than his initial shots on just ONE of his leg attacks.

 

And better doesn't mean perfect. His technique wasn't up to par.

 

Let's get back to your original statement. Your expert analysis stated that Chance exhibited "poor technique" and would need to clean up his "fundamentals." And unlike myself, you have yet to apply any verbiage beyond your initial response to my argument (your elbow deep comment, etc.). This is what a true debate means. You do not answer a question with a question. You supply POINTS and COUNTER POINTS. No one said perfect. Not you or I. Here then, is the crux of our argument, you see Chance not score and you say "his technique wasn't up to par." I explain, in LENGTHY DETAIL, why that is false with counter points that show his exquisite technique was stopped by sheer BETTER positioning by Rhoades. What you seem to discount there is strength. It matters. You don't believe it does. Which is exactly why you believe an injury is NOT a reason to lose a match.

 

Your SECOND statement: "His fundamentals need work if he is going to do well on the college level." This is a false in every degree of being false. In matters concerning Chance Marsteller, one fact that cannot be argued is that his "fundamentals" are far advance for a high schooler.

 

It's not false. You even tacitly admit this when you qualify your statement. Look at your own statement, "his fundamentals are far advanced for a high schooler". It's fine if you want to say that, but the fact remains that D1 college wrestling and HS wrestling are two completely different levels.

 

If you still want to disagree, let me ask you, are Marsteller's fundamentals far advanced for a D1 college wrestler? I'd like to hear your honest answer.

 

D1 College Wrestling and HS wrestling are two different levels? Agreed. That wasn't a counter point, since we are not arguing that. And again, you answer my argument with a question. A cheap way to make a point, but i'll bite. YES! His technique is even far advanced for a D1 college wrestler. Keep in mind I am thinking about ALL 77 programs, and ALL of their wrestlers. He certainly is advanced. And I'll let my boy Adam Tirapelle voice his concern - He stated that the fear of Chance NOT succeeding in College is whether he'll be able to wrestle with guys who have the same STRENGTH LEVEL as he, or maybe even more than he.

 

His head position in neutral is beyond reproach, and that is one of the first traits college coaches noticed about him as an 8th grader. Please tell me how many times you've seen someone even get their hands locked on him.

 

If we are talking big picture, Marsteller has wrestled very few quality opponents. It doesn't matter to me that many HS wrestlers aren't able to get their "hands locked on him". Hardly any HS wrestler could get their hands locked onto Gulibon either.

 

 

His feet - as a left leg lead, i've never seen anyone get to his right leg. He does a great job of making himself a small target, and there being only ONE target you may be thinking of attacking. His back leg is too far back, his feet stay shoulder width apart - which allows him to keep his back straight in a lead leg stance.

 

And how many quality opponents has he faced?

 

Elbows - No one gets underhooks on the kid. His elbows are sealed to his body, and his attack hand rarely touches the head
.

 

And has he faced any quality opponents who were top notch TD artists with the underhook? You keep mentioning "nobody had done this or that to him", but the exact same things could be said before he entered the Fila Jrs and lost twice. Before then, no one was able to consistently stuff his shots either. No one was able to beat him. No one could even give him a good match. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

 

You're terrible at this. You asked the same question three times. (yes, i can see right through your pithy attempts to make the same point three times. Sorry, that's ONE counter point for you.)

 

Quality opponents? Marsteller has them in spades. He's beaten a who's who of wrestlers to include:

 

Garrett Peppelman

Brian Brill

Cody Wiercoch

Zachary Beard

Zach Zavatsky

Coleman Hammond

Nick Hodgkins

Brett Harner

Lorenzo Thomas

Geordan Speiller

 

I know I'm missing a ton more. Marsteller went everywhere, challenged returning state champs in 2 out of the 4 years at PIAA AAA States, and he was in HIGH SCHOOL. What we are doing is having an argument based on his body of work. Which, yes is against high school athletes, but that's what he is. We are arguing whether he has poor technique. He does not. IF he did, guys IN HIGH SCHOOL, would be able to get to legs, secure under hooks and stuff his shots.

 

Handfighting - Again, clearly above reproach. You clearly underestimate just how hard it is to snap someone's hand off you and get their hands on the mat. Chance did it three times in the match against Rhoades. Before Pico, I was saying Chance is the best hand fighter I've ever seen at the high school level.

 

Above reproach to who? Do you believe Marsteller is a world class handfighter?

 

Unlike you, I'm not into just spouting of the latest rhetoric and buzzwords this sport has to offer. ANY comment I make, has been echoed by a Division I COACH. I've stood on the sidelines, and watch coaches just shake their head and say, "he's far ahead of some of the guys I have in my room RIGHT NOW." So yes, if it seems appropriate for a coach to say that Marsteller is a world class handfigther, so too will I.

 

So please. Feel free to defend your argument as originally stated.

 

I did and you agreed with me.

 

 

Score superold 1.5, vhsalum 8

 

Interesting scoring system. You even had to give me points! Even while ignoring some of what I said, you still had to concede my main point. Your argument is basically because Chance didn't do everything completely wrong, he can't be called out on showing poor technique. Or at least that's what it seems like.

 

Let's make this point abundantly clear. If you must, please write it down in your technique journal that you keep by your bedside along with the cell phone numbers of every Division I coach you must know: WE DO NOT AGREE ON THIS SUBJECT. Saying that Marsteller "had poor technique on his finishes" and that his "fundamentals need work," is wrong. BOTH statements.

 

It may be argued that on two shots in ONE match that he may have STARTED in bad position, but my counter point is that his opponent showed an ability to react and the strength in which to capitalize upon it, in a manner Chance was not able to score against.

 

Now. I have made my points and offered counter points to yours. Please respond in kind. and understand that in a true debate - answering in a question is just rude, and saying that I agreed with you and using (and this is a biggie) BROAD GENERALIZATIONS WITHOUT USE OF STATED POINTS, makes you look ill-prepared/wrong to the audience.

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I can only recall Chance being taken down 1 time in a folk style high school match. Brill did it in the state title match during Chance's 10th grade year. Within about 2 seconds Chance reversed him.

 

Chance has about 10,000 take downs of his own. So 10,000 to 1. Not bad for a guy with poor technique. LMAO.

 

Marsteller has shown poor technique in specific situations. Do you disagree Tbar? I'd like to hear your honest answer.

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I can only recall Chance being taken down 1 time in a folk style high school match. Brill did it in the state title match during Chance's 10th grade year. Within about 2 seconds Chance reversed him.

 

Chance has about 10,000 take downs of his own. So 10,000 to 1. Not bad for a guy with poor technique. LMAO.

 

Marsteller has shown poor technique in specific situations. Do you disagree Tbar? I'd like to hear your honest answer.

 

My honest answer is that while nobody is perfect, Chance is ridiculously good technique wise. For you to argue against this is only going to make you look silly. The kid didn't go 166 and 0 in the toughest state in the country - not to mention something like 10,000 to 1 in takedowns, by having poor technique.

 

Trying to suggest (and obviously getting nowhere) he's got poor technique comes off more like you being a hater than anything else.

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I am no expert, but look at his record from 1/18/14. Just one day, but up a weight and holy smokes! Six matches, all pins, all in 25 seconds or less!!!

 

1/18 182 lbs Daniel Arnett

Littlestown W Pin: 0:15

1/18 182 lbs Unk Vanderwahl

Westminster (MD) W Pin: 0:06

1/18 182 lbs Nick Glunt

Shippensburg W Pin: 0:07

1/18 170 lbs Benjamin Wingerd

Gettysburg W Pin: 0:17

1/18 182 lbs Aaron Spahr

Camp Hill W Pin: 0:25

1/18 182 lbs Unk Vanderwahl

Westminster (MD) W Pin: 0:06

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I am no expert, but look at his record from 1/18/14. Just one day, but up a weight and holy smokes! Six matches, all pins, all in 25 seconds or less!!!

 

1/18 182 lbs Daniel Arnett

Littlestown W Pin: 0:15

1/18 182 lbs Unk Vanderwahl

Westminster (MD) W Pin: 0:06

1/18 182 lbs Nick Glunt

Shippensburg W Pin: 0:07

1/18 170 lbs Benjamin Wingerd

Gettysburg W Pin: 0:17

1/18 182 lbs Aaron Spahr

Camp Hill W Pin: 0:25

1/18 182 lbs Unk Vanderwahl

Westminster (MD) W Pin: 0:06

 

 

Couple years ago Chance wrestled in an exhibition giving up at least 10lbs to this year's Intermat #1 ranked 182, Johnny Sebastian. Chance won. Johnny is one of about 15 state champions this kid has beaten.

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Gents, you have to LEARN. You would have a better chance changing a career politician's opinion during a debate( NO CHANCE) than getting superold to change his mind. If you want, put out your opinion on the matter and then digress. There is NO point directly engaging him. It just turns into a muddled mess of paragraphs of responses per post......

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Superold has had it in for Marstellar since last year. Trying to reason with him is moot. It's like arguing with those idiots who think our own Govt. organized 9/11. At a certain point, you just have to move on. Logic and reason do not work with these types of nuts.

 

Superold also likes to bash Marstellar for the competition he's wrestled while in high school. Here is a partial list of opponents. What a bunch of pansies.

 

Zach Zavatsky, undefeated state champ. VaTech

Garrett Peppelman, 2x state champ. Virginia

Brett Harner. Multi time placer. Princeton

Lorenzo Thomas. Multi time placer. Penn. just lost 3-1 to Gabe Dean

Brian Brill. State champ, 85 match win streak. Lehigh

Johnny Sebastian. 2x NJ champ. Northwestern

Andrew Garcia. 3x MI champ. Cornell

Cody Allala. 4x Va state champ (largest classification)

Zach Beard. 4x Ok state champ. Wyoming

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Nick Hodgkins finished his four-year PIAA career with a record of 164-8 and a pair of state titles. In his senior, Chances 9th grade year, Nick beat James Green to win Super 32.

 

Two weeks before that 9th grade Chance beat him. Might have been the first state champ that Chance beat. I'm not sure about that, though, because some people tell me he beat some state champs even before he got to high school. Not bad for a guy with poor technique.

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Gents, you have to LEARN. You would have a better chance changing a career politician's opinion during a debate( NO CHANCE) than getting superold to change is mind. If you want, put out your opinion on the matter and then digress. There is NO point directly engaging him. It just turns into a muddled mess of paragraphs of responses per post......

 

You are 100% correct, but sometimes this is just fun! :D

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My point was extremely straight forward super. No one is perfect, no technique is perfect, these are real life people going up against other actively moving and fighting people. John Smith even at his pinnacle would (by using the standards applied to Chance) have regularly been a poor technician.

 

If Chances technique was poor then just about every wrestler ever no matter what they accomplished had poor technique as well.

 

Under those standards words lose all meaning.

 

 

Unfortunately MSU seems I'm starting to agree with you... (frightening! :)). Arguing for arguing's sake makes my head hurt.

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My point was extremely straight forward super. No one is perfect, no technique is perfect, these are real life people going up against other actively moving and fighting people. John Smith even at his pinnacle would (by using the standards applied to Chance) have regularly been a poor technician.

 

If Chances technique was poor then just about every wrestler ever no matter what they accomplished had poor technique as well.

 

Under those standards words lose all meaning.

 

 

Unfortunately MSU seems I'm starting to agree with you... (frightening! :)). Arguing for arguing's sake makes my head hurt.

 

Don't let your blind PSU faithfulness lead you astray. I am a VERY sensible guy! :D

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Superold has had it in for Marstellar since last year. Trying to reason with him is moot. It's like arguing with those idiots who think our own Govt. organized 9/11. At a certain point, you just have to move on. Logic and reason do not work with these types of nuts.

 

Superold also likes to bash Marstellar for the competition he's wrestled while in high school. Here is a partial list of opponents. What a bunch of pansies.

 

Zach Zavatsky, undefeated state champ. VaTech

Garrett Peppelman, 2x state champ. Virginia

Brett Harner. Multi time placer. Princeton

Lorenzo Thomas. Multi time placer. Penn. just lost 3-1 to Gabe Dean

Brian Brill. State champ, 85 match win streak. Lehigh

Johnny Sebastian. 2x NJ champ. Northwestern

Andrew Garcia. 3x MI champ. Cornell

Cody Allala. 4x Va state champ (largest classification)

Zach Beard. 4x Ok state champ. Wyoming

 

 

Chance won Super 32 this year without surrendering an offensive point against. That is against a top flight national field. Not once was he taken down or reversed. Chance got 1 pin, two techs, 2 majors and he cruised past Lujan 9-3 in the final.

 

superold trying to advance the idea this kid has poor technique is insanity.

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Gents, you have to LEARN. You would have a better chance changing a career politician's opinion during a debate( NO CHANCE) than getting superold to change his mind. If you want, put out your opinion on the matter and then digress. There is NO point directly engaging him. It just turns into a muddled mess of paragraphs of responses per post......

 

MSU,

 

This is simply an education. I love providing schooling to those with lesser means. superold is getting killed in this debate, line by line. Plus, i'm bored. This is fun.

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superold, Summer 2011, just out of 9th grade Chance just won PIAA Class AAA States, best high school tournament in the country. So he goes out to Fargo and wins the Cadet Greco title. Not content to stop there, he wrestles Cadet freestyle too. Wins the title un scored upon. Beats Oklahoma State Champ Kelian Torres in the final 6-0, 7-0 in a total elapsed time for the two periods of 1:06.

 

You can watch it here. Not bad for a guy you think has poor technique.

 

 

 

BTW, listen to the excitement of the announcer. This is what most folks sounded like the first time they have seen Chance wrestle. We both know it won't be like this for Chance in college, but stop already with the poor technique nonsense. The kid can flat out GO!

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Yes. I have. And you have shown inability to understand the mere concept of our sport. You do realize that Chance is NOT wrestling a Takedown Dummy, right? I have clearly, and nearly frame by frame diagnosed EXACTLY what it is that Rhoads was able to hit that allowed him to (and I will say this in all caps you understand the sport just a little bit better today) PUT Marsteller in bad position

 

 

Yes, Marsteller was able to be put in poor position because of poor technique. Haha. I don't see why that is so hard for you to grasp! I don't see it at all.

 

Let's get back to your original statement. Your expert analysis stated that Chance exhibited "poor technique" and would need to clean up his "fundamentals." And unlike myself, you have yet to apply any verbiage beyond your initial response to my argument (your elbow deep comment, etc.). This is what a true debate means. You do not answer a question with a question. You supply POINTS and COUNTER POINTS.

 

For starters, I'm not "debating" you. And what is your argument exactly?

 

You supply POINTS and COUNTER POINTS. No one said perfect. Not you or I. Here then, is the crux of our argument, you see Chance not score and you say "his technique wasn't up to par." I explain, in LENGTHY DETAIL, why that is false with counter points that show his exquisite technique was stopped by sheer BETTER positioning by Rhoades. What you seem to discount there is strength. It matters. You don't believe it does. Which is exactly why you believe an injury is NOT a reason to lose a match.

 

You ATTEMPT to explain why it is false, but you failed to do so. Actually, in a round about way, you do admit that you were wrong. You seem to think because you use a lot of words to explain your position that that means you've made a good argument. That's not necessarily the case. I'll say it again, due to Chance's poor technique Rhoades was able to counter. If Chance's technique were better, he would have scored.

 

You mention no one said perfect? Well, it's true that I didn't say it explicity, but that's only because it's implied. If you hit a move by the book down to the fine details, then it's perfect. You admit that Chance didn't hit the move perfectly, which means he left room for error. Rhoades was able to capitalize on that error to get square himself up with Chance and stop the shot. Had Chance not erred on his technique, Rhoades wouldn't have been able to do that.

 

 

D1 College Wrestling and HS wrestling are two different levels? Agreed. That wasn't a counter point, since we are not arguing that.

 

You brought up a point and I responded to it. There's nothing wrong with me responding to one of your points. And who chose exactly what we were arguing? Did we ever agree on a narrow range of topics? I don't recall that, but maybe I'm getting a bit lost responding to several different posters on this thread.

 

And again, you answer my argument with a question.

 

What argument?

 

A cheap way to make a point, but i'll bite. YES! His technique is even far advanced for a D1 college wrestler. Keep in mind I am thinking about ALL 77 programs, and ALL of their wrestlers. He certainly is advanced. And I'll let my boy Adam Tirapelle voice his concern - He stated that the fear of Chance NOT succeeding in College is whether he'll be able to wrestle with guys who have the same STRENGTH LEVEL as he, or maybe even more than he.

 

Just for the record VHS, you've given no evidence that Marsteller lacks strength. You've given no evidence that Rhoads was significantly stronger, or even stronger at all than Chance. Would you like to finally state this evidence that shows that Rhoads was stronger than Chance?

 

And are you saying that Marsteller's technique is far advanced among the elite wrestlers from the top programs? You mentioned all wrestlers from all 77 programs, so that includes walk ons with 2 or 3 years of low level HS wrestling experience. I'd like you to be more specific.

 

You're terrible at this. You asked the same question three times. (yes, i can see right through your pithy attempts to make the same point three times. Sorry, that's ONE counter point for you.)

 

Yes, I asked the same question multiple times, but that's because you kept on making the same point. You mention that nobody does this or that to Chance, but that's only meaningful if the quality of competition reaches a certain level. Considering that fact, my questions made sense.

 

Quality opponents? Marsteller has them in spades. He's beaten a who's who of wrestlers to include:

 

Garrett Peppelman

Brian Brill

Cody Wiercoch

Zachary Beard

Zach Zavatsky

Coleman Hammond

Nick Hodgkins

Brett Harner

Lorenzo Thomas

Geordan Speiller

 

I know I'm missing a ton more. Marsteller went everywhere, challenged returning state champs in 2 out of the 4 years at PIAA AAA States, and he was HIGH SCHOOL.

 

After reviewing that list of opponents, my statement stands. When I mention quality opponents, I'm not talking about HS kids! In this thread I was discussing how Chance did/will do against collegiate competition. I don't care if he scored a lot of points on HS kids who are levels and levels below the kids he'll face in college.

 

 

What we are doing is having an argument based on his body work. Which, yes is against high school athletes, but that's what he is. We are arguing whether he has poor technique. He does not. IF he did, guys IN HIGH SCHOOL, would be able to get to legs, secure under hooks and stuff his shots.

 

No we aren't. Well, maybe that's what you are doing, but I never agreed to those terms. I hardly care about what happens in HS. I don't really care much at all about his 174 matches against low level competition.

 

Unlike you, I'm not into just spouting of the latest rhetoric and buzzwords this sport has to offer. ANY comment I make, has been echoed by a Division I COACH. I've stood on the sidelines, and watch coaches just shake their head and say, "he's far ahead of some of the guys I have in my room RIGHT NOW." So yes, if it seems appropriate for a coach to say that Marsteller is a world class handfigther, so too will I.

 

There are many D1 coaches, and not everyone is on board with that. And I know that for a fact. Every comment I've made has been echoed by D1 coaches and former world class wrestlers too. So I guess we are at a stand still. I trust the guys I know more than the guys that you know.

 

 

 

Let's make this point abundantly clear. If you must, please write it down in your technique journal that you keep by your bedside along with the cell phone numbers of every Division I coach you must know: WE DO NOT AGREE ON THIS SUBJECT. Saying that Marsteller "had poor technique on his finishes" and that his "fundamentals need work," is wrong. BOTH statements.

 

But you have already admitted that he did have poor technique on his shots. Just because you also point out that he did some things well doesn't make his technical failures all of a sudden disappear.

 

It may be argued that on two shots in ONE match that he may have STARTED in bad position, but my counter point is that his opponent showed an ability to react and the strength in which to capitalize upon it, in a manner Chance was not able to score against.

 

I'm not concerned with your counterpoint in the least. All you are saying is that after he Marsteller (through poor technique) got himself into poor position, he was able to get himself out. Again, you don't say that Marsteller was never in poor position, only that he got himself out. You are basically arguing that "Well..Marsteller showed poor technique, but it wasn't THAT poor.. give him a break".

 

 

Now. I have made my points and offered counter points to yours. Please respond in kind. and understand that in a true debate - answering in a question is just rude, and saying that I agreed with you and using (and this is a biggie) BROAD GENERALIZATIONS WITHOUT USE OF STATED POINTS, makes you look ill-prepared/wrong to the audience.

 

You didn't address everything that I said VHS, I don't grant that. I never said that I was getting into a full blown debate with you either. For the record, what we are doing here is nothing like any formal debate that I have ever seen. This is a wrestling message board. Oh, I also believe that you overestimate your debate skills.

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Damn superold got treated like Jodie Foster in The Accused in this thread.

 

He would accuse us Penn Staters of hating on Chance if he could get away with it, but I think this thread shows how much respect we have for Chance's wrestling skill.

 

I will root for Chance at Oklahoma State, unless he is wrestling against Penn State at which time I will switch for that one match. Same way I felt about Jordan Oliver.

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Damn superold got treated like Jodie Foster in The Accused in this thread.

 

Damn, you need to be a bit more specific. There are several ways she was treated that I don't think apply.......

 

vhsalum picked him up and put him on a pinball machine...

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