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Tech_fall15

How will Marstellar do in College?

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Again, you don't get to make that choice. It is clear from the 10 pages of thread, that I am the clear victor. The consensus from ALL who have replied (other than your, old, self) is that my arguments pass the proverbial taste test. Yours sour in the mouth of a newborn.

 

In the words of 2004, "YOU GOT SERVED!"

 

But according to your own posts I "win". Claim "victory" all you want. You are clearly emotionally invested in this one. :) Trying to ignore poor technique by claiming a significant strength disadvantage (which went unproven btw) is laughable at best.

 

 

And the crowd goes - BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! BOO the lack of evidentiary accountability!!!! BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! BOO the lack of any superold providing any further analysis after being soundly refuted by vhsalum! BOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! BOO superold for not listing any college coaches that agreed with him, as he purported in earlier statements, and then was silenced when vhsalum named ten of his own!!!!!! BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! BOO superold for having all of his questions answered and not answering any of vhsalum's!!!!!! BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! BOO superold for not saying vhsalum agreed with your major points, even though he has illustrated in minute detail that he does not!!!! BOOOOOO!!!!!!! BOO superold for being crotchety and clearly in need of pain medications!!!!!!! BOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! BOO we say!

 

Jeez. The masses have spoken.

 

What college coaches did you list btw? Are you talking about college coaches who believe that Marsteller showed perfect technique in his match with Rhoads? If not, I'm not sure what your point is.

 

So, like, umm... I was TOTALLY, like, joking with you, like, that, you suck at reading comprehension.

 

But now its clear. You suck at reading comprehension. My list of college coaches maintained that AS A HIGH SCHOOLER, he had ADVANCED technique AND FUNDAMENTALS for a Division I wrestler. I also posted one quote by a coaches who said that Chance (as a sophomore) was better than guys in their room and one quote who intimated Chance would have won big tens at 149 that year. So again, here is the list of colleges where-in a coach on staff TOLD ME that Chance was ready to compete in college while still in high school. And they say he would have done BETTER THAN 'well.' This goes to your SECOND, MAJOR POINT, that I do not agree with, that Chance needs better fundamentals to do 'well' at the college level:

 

Cornell

Penn State

Michigan State

OTC

Air Force

Iowa

NC STATE

Arizona State

Missouri

Rutgers

Virginia.

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Tbar, are you afraid to give your specific college prediction for Marsteller for some reason? I've asked you multiple times, and you continue to beat around the bush.

 

superold, you'd be fortunate if I gave you the time of day after the way you have acted in MANY threads. Grow up first, then start making stupid demands of people. If you are lucky as all get out then maybe, MAYBE, someone will decide you are worth conversing with.

 

Tbar, have I ever insulted you? I don't think I have. If I did, please name the time. You've insulted me on many occasions, and have offered no apology. So you can't be serious about mentioning the way I have acted in threads when I haven't done or said anything that's on par with the things you have said. Stop trying to turn the tables and play the victim. What's sad is that you have to muster up in your imagination insults that I've made towards Marsteller just so you can somehow justify your behavior on this board. That's very sad Tbar. If you're honest with yourself you'd agree with that. You know that many of your claims have no basis in reality. Just look at this last post that you've made to me. If I grow up then maybe someone will converse with me? Really? Look at all the back and forth that I've had on this very thread. Look at the discussions that have had on other threads. Reality has escaped you.

 

 

And instead of replying to me with accusations, why don't you simply just give a specific prediction? Are you afraid to give a prediction for some reason?

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Someone needs a time out.

 

Is there anyone out there with a soft spot for suzie-like misfits, who can take superold under his wing for some wise counsel.... perhaps Hurricane??

 

Come on rossel3, we've had good discussions back and forth. No need to call me a misfit. Don't let yourself be misguided by the posts of Tbar, Leshishmore, and company. Notice their behavior towards me. Note that it's nothing more than my honest opinion that upsets these guys so much. Hopefully you aren't letting my position on McDonough cloud your judgement.

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So, like, umm... I was TOTALLY, like, joking with you, like, that, you suck at reading comprehension.

 

But now its clear. You suck at reading comprehension. My list of college coaches maintained that AS A HIGH SCHOOLER, he had ADVANCED technique AND FUNDAMENTALS for a Division I wrestler. I also posted one quote by a coaches who said that Chance (as a sophomore) was better than guys in their room and one quote who intimated Chance would have won big tens at 149 that year. So again, here is the list of colleges where-in a coach on staff TOLD ME that Chance was ready to compete in college while still in high school. And they say he would have done BETTER THAN 'well.' This goes to your SECOND, MAJOR POINT, that I do not agree with, that Chance needs better fundamentals to do 'well' at the college level:

 

Cornell

Penn State

Michigan State

OTC

Air Force

IowaMissouri

NC STATE

Arizona State

Rutgers

Virginia.

 

These aren't names of college coaches Vhsalum. These are names of schools. :) Could you be more specific about which coaches said what?

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Tbar, are you afraid to give your specific college prediction for Marsteller for some reason? I've asked you multiple times, and you continue to beat around the bush.

 

superold, you'd be fortunate if I gave you the time of day after the way you have acted in MANY threads. Grow up first, then start making stupid demands of people. If you are lucky as all get out then maybe, MAYBE, someone will decide you are worth conversing with.

 

Tbar, have I ever insulted you? I don't think I have. If I did, please name the time. You've insulted me on many occasions, and have offered no apology. So you can't be serious about mentioning the way I have acted in threads when I haven't done or said anything that's on par with the things you have said. Stop trying to turn the tables and play the victim. What's sad is that you have to muster up in your imagination insults that I've made towards Marsteller just so you can somehow justify your behavior on this board. That's very sad Tbar. If you're honest with yourself you'd agree with that. You know that many of your claims have no basis in reality. Just look at this last post that you've made to me. If I grow up then maybe someone will converse with me? Really? Look at all the back and forth that I've had on this very thread. Look at the discussions that have had on other threads. Reality has escaped you.

 

 

And instead of replying to me with accusations, why don't you simply just give a specific prediction? Are you afraid to give a prediction for some reason?

 

 

Tbar, i got cho back son!

 

Yo superold, lemme spell it out fa you SON! Tbar said he mad tired of yo ish. Sez you ak like a spoiled, insecure only child and shizz. He will answer yo questions, when you ak like a adult. One who don't insult kidz and can participate in meaningful dialogue YO!

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Sometimes you have to speak to people in their native tongues. I'm not sure which superold is, so I've tried valley girl and hoodrat. Lets see what happens now!

 

 

I edited my post so you may have missed it. You list a name of schools, not coaches. Could you be more specific about what coaches said what please?

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Well lickety split. I sho hasn't seen a kind like uze afo! I'ssa pretty sure I'ssa sed dat I couldn't be naming no names on accoun I has relationships wit dese folks, and whats dey be telling me in confidence I shoze have to keep it that away Mistah!

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Well lickety split. I sho hasn't seen a kind like uze afo! I'ssa pretty sure I'ssa sed dat I couldn't be naming no names on accoun I has relationships wit dese folks, and whats dey be telling me in confidence I shoze have to keep it that away Mistah!

 

Can you give specific names of the coaches and what they said? Or did you just make that up?

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It sounds like you guys are just talking right past each other.

 

It sounds to me that superold's view is that when Wrestler X scores on Wrestler Y, there generally was a technique error on Y's part that led to the score. In other words, had Y countered X's move with the right technique for the situation, X would not have scored. Superold chooses to describe that scenario as "poor technique" on Y's part -- which may be a more perjorative description than I'd use, but I get his meaning.

 

I gather superold's view, using this word choice, is that *every* wrestler uses "poor technique" at times, since e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e gets scored on at times where a different counter-technique would have prevented it. And I think superold would admit this, as he has no problem admitting that John Smith has used poor technique at times.

 

As applied to Marstellar, I think superold is saying Marsteller used "poor technique" in the sense that Rhodes scored on him in a situation where better technique would have prevented it. And that's it.

 

As for vhsalum, I think he's interpreting "poor technique" to be more of a generized indictment against the wrestler -- i.e. as tantamount to a suggestion that the wrestler has bad technique. Or at minimum, that word choice implies that the wrestler's overall technique is not in the upper eschelon among wrestlers. I understand that too; its a reasonable interpretation.

 

But again, I don't think that was superold's intent. I don't think he's saying that Marsteller's technique is lacking in relation to his peers, or disputing that Marstellar's technique compared to his peers is top-tier. Just that better technique by Marstellar could have prevented Rhodes from scoring, just as better techique by John Smith during his heyday could have prevented his opponent from scoring.

 

And I don't know if vhsalum really disagrees with any of that. There appears to be a minor disagreement as to whether and how much a strength disparity came into play, but even there, I don't understand vhsalum to be claiming that there was no technique at all that Marstellar could have used to prevent Rhodes from scoring. And I don't think superold is saying that strength is/was irrelevant.

 

Or maybe I'm wrong. I won't post further on the thread as I don't want to get dragged into it. But once you get past the word choice issues, I really don't see any substantive disagreement between you guys.

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But again, I don't think that was superold's intent. I think he's saying that Marsteller's technique is lacking in relation to his peers, or disputing that Marstellar's technique compared to his peers is top-tier. Just that better technique by Marstellar could have prevented Rhodes from scoring, just as better techique by John Smith during his heyday could have prevented his opponent from scoring.

 

Bac, did you mean to put a "don't" before the "think" in the second sentence?

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A few observations after reading through this thread, which was quite entertaining. Don't really care about either of these, just was interesting as Rhoads was a wrestler I knew when he was in high school.

 

1. Rhoads is just barely 2 years older than Marsteller - 4/15/93 for Rhoads and 7/9/95 for Marsteller. At the time of the match mentioned, Rhoads was 18 (a few days short of his 19th birthday) and Marsteller was 16, about 3 months short of his 17th birthday. Not quite a 3 year older 'man' as quoted a few times. Does Marsteller have a beard in that video? Doesn't appear to be physically immature.

 

2. One D1 coach said the sophomore Marsteller would have beaten the NCAA champ Molinaro? Yet, as a sophomore he couldn't beat a freshman backup with a record of 6-4? Something isn't lining up here.

 

3. In relation to the above - Marsteller didn't have the strength to finish technique on a lanky freshman but would be able to do so against a senior Molinaro? I'm willing to bet that the senior Molinaro was quite a bit stronger than the freshman Rhoads.

 

4. The first thing high school kids find out when they get to college is: You can get to a college wrestler's legs with whatever you did in high school, but finishing is a whole different matter. This is where possibly Superold was talking about technique?? There have been numerous threads on this board with former college guys that were REALLY good talking about how long it took them to get their first TD in the room. To do so, they had to refine their technique from what was succesful in high school. Maybe this is what Superold is saying, but he was a little more blunt in his observations.

 

5. Never seen him wrestle except for a couple videos, but from all accounts and achievements, it sure appears that Marsteller should be a very good college wrestler. Lot of factors come into play in college so making any kind of predictions is always a shot in the dark. I wish him the best in his college career.

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But again, I don't think that was superold's intent. I don't hink he's saying that Marsteller's technique is lacking in relation to his peers, or disputing that Marstellar's technique compared to his peers is top-tier. Just that better technique by Marstellar could have prevented Rhodes from scoring, just as better techique by John Smith during his heyday could have prevented his opponent from scoring.

 

Bac, you have my position pretty much nailed down. I'm not sure why my position causes so much offense.

 

 

As applied to Marstellar, I think superold is saying Marsteller used "poor technique" in the sense that Rhodes scored on him in a situation where better technique would have prevented it. And that's it.

 

Extremely close, you understand my point very well Bac. I'm saying that his technique was poor in the sense that he would have scored on Rhoads had his technique been better in that particular situation. Another way of putting it is that poor technique was a very real contributing factor to Marsteller not finishing a td. I reject that everything about the attempt at the td finish was spot on and only strength or some other factor stopped Marsteller. The only reason for this slight correction is because I don't believe that Rhoads scored on Marsteller.

 

 

You understand my position well Bac, thank you for your post. If anyone her was unclear on my position before, see Bac's post. If there is still confusion, I will try to clear it up.

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A few observations after reading through this thread, which was quite entertaining. Don't really care about either of these, just was interesting as Rhoads was a wrestler I knew when he was in high school.

 

1. Rhoads is just barely 2 years older than Marsteller - 4/15/93 for Rhoads and 7/9/95 for Marsteller. At the time of the match mentioned, Rhoads was 18 (a few days short of his 19th birthday) and Marsteller was 16, about 3 months short of his 17th birthday. Not quite a 3 year older 'man' as quoted a few times. Does Marsteller have a beard in that video? Doesn't appear to be physically immature.

 

2. One D1 coach said the sophomore Marsteller would have beaten the NCAA champ Molinaro? Yet, as a sophomore he couldn't beat a freshman backup with a record of 6-4? Something isn't lining up here.

 

3. In relation to the above - Marsteller didn't have the strength to finish technique on a lanky freshman but would be able to do so against a senior Molinaro? I'm willing to bet that the senior Molinaro was quite a bit stronger than the freshman Rhoads.

 

4. The first thing high school kids find out when they get to college is: You can get to a college wrestler's legs with whatever you did in high school, but finishing is a whole different matter. This is where possibly Superold was talking about technique?? There have been numerous threads on this board with former college guys that were REALLY good talking about how long it took them to get their first TD in the room. To do so, they had to refine their technique from what was succesful in high school. Maybe this is what Superold is saying, but he was a little more blunt in his observations.

 

5. Never seen him wrestle except for a couple videos, but from all accounts and achievements, it sure appears that Marsteller should be a very good college wrestler. Lot of factors come into play in college so making any kind of predictions is always a shot in the dark. I wish him the best in his college career.

 

Sbdude, thanks for sharing.

 

I will say that I don't believe that there was a big strength difference in that match. Look how easily Marsteller was able to lift Rhoads up off the whistle after he won the ball grab. I know that it's easier to lift starting with the leg elevated, but Marsteller appeared to do it with ease. During the ball grab days, many wrestlers trained to be able to do exactly what Marsteller did to Rhoads off the whistle, and many weren't able to do it in live competition. That shows sufficient strength on Marsteller's part. I see no clear evidence of a strength disparity between the two. This thread is the first time I've ever heard someone question Marsteller's strength.

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Depends.....does Bo have good technique? :D

------

 

just a guess.... not all the time

 

 

Exactly, and if he happens to lose a match because of showing poor technique in a particular situation, it would not be "bashing" to point it out. I'm not sure why so many seem to have a problem with that. Has anyone here ever had a wrestling coach? :)

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