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NCWA is the future of college wrestling

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NCAA already has less schools with wrestling and is shrinking while the NCWA continues to grow it wont be long until the NCWA is the gold standard of college wrestling. The REAL national tournament already happened last weekend in Allen Texas.

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The NCWA is a great organization but they are essentially college sports clubs that are competing. They're probably the gold standard for college sports club organizations, but they aren't even comparable to actual school teams, no matter how many participants they have.

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the ncwa also allows for full scholarships so i think we can all agree the ncwa has passed d3 naia and juco in terms of competition and is probably on par with division 2 in the long run i would bet NCWA takes over NCAA wrestling. Lets Face facts NCAA doesnt care about wrestling they care about football and basketball thats why title 9 is forcing wrestling out at schools across the nation. NCWA is dedicated to just wrestling

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Allowing full scholarships has nothing to do with the level of competition. I bet the NCWA All Star team would get blanked by the national champion team from each other division.

 

The NCWA is a great organization but the wrestling in those divisions is not the best.

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Organizations dedicated to a singular sport, such as with rowing and boxing, work when there is no NCAA-regulated system for it. In the case of the NCWA, where wrestling is already sponsored (albeit on the decline), it would be near impossible for people to accept the NCWA over the NCAA. Sure, it's great for the club teams and women's teams, but as far as varsity programs go.. not so much.

 

I'm not so sure that the NCWA's main goals even include being the de facto body for ALL of college wrestling, just for those who aren't able to maintain a varsity program. Isn't the main goal of the NCWA to create NCAA programs?

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the ncwa also allows for full scholarships so i think we can all agree the ncwa has passed d3 naia and juco in terms of competition and is probably on par with division 2 in the long run i would bet NCWA takes over NCAA wrestling. Lets Face facts NCAA doesnt care about wrestling they care about football and basketball thats why title 9 is forcing wrestling out at schools across the nation. NCWA is dedicated to just wrestling

 

 

Even you do not believe that statement.

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It is obvious to me NCAA DI is the top banana.  D2, D3, NAIA and JUCO are pretty competitive at top levels.  NCWA is like a catch-all-that-falls-through-cracks which at the top could be really good, also. 

Because Title IX paved the way for the creation of the NCWA in the first place, the other divisions suffered cut backs and continue to do so.  D1 still attracts top-talent due to funding and national recognition but lost programs and is down to 77 teams,  D2 offers financial aid but currently has about 60 programs, while D3 has over 100 teams, but is non-athletic scholarship. NAIA offers financial help with about 60 teams.  JUCO has 77 teams with some help at some schools.  CCCA (California Community College Assn.) has 20 teams.  NCWA has 35 top tier programs and over 100 at a lower tier and can offer scholarships.

The drawback with the NCWA is the funding for the program itself.  If the program gains the support of the institution as part of the athletics and is funded, it has a better chance over the long run.  If it is generated only by student support, then students must pay for it which can vary year-to-year.  

So it seems the better wrestlers will gravitate to the more viable programs.  Still though, Title IX has caused a shift in the paradigm.

 

 

   

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On 3/18/2014 at 3:43 PM, Stove_Pipe said:

^^I think the NCWA is a tremendous, dynamic organization. I think the NCWA needs to have a plan that, if the need were to arise, they quickly would add an elite division to their current two-tier structure.

A blast from the past?

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This ^ I like the idea of empowering club wrestling at the collegiate level including Division 1. NCAA D  1 is loosing teams every year soon enough every school will qualify their whole line up for NCAAs. All the highest rated prospects get stacked onto a few teams that have shown the ability to develop national champions. Only one per weight can wrestle, the big programs have forty kids on a roster which makes for an already watered down NCAA tournament. Not getting to see Gilman as a freshmen, no spot for Nelson Brands, the Bailey and Rogers kids from Okie state, No Cessar the year he beats Colin Moore, Matt Brown potentiality an NCAA finalist the year he lost to Ruth in Scuffle finals, the list could go on for ever and I am sure there are some really good examples I left out.  Let the kids have more autonomy, in many small schools the kids could act as player, coach, athletic director, general manager, and or owner of their own club wrestling teams all the while they will be growing the sport.  If the kids not a D1 starter,  let those kids compete in a club nationals format. Get them more matches if they want them. Let them wrestle in dual meets.  That would mean a club dual meet national title and an individual club national championship set up by a point system from open tournaments and potential regional and or group club qualifying tournaments.   Let all college students compete, wrestle, qualify, broadcast, officiate, coach, for the NCAA club championships regardless of what university they attend. Why put all our eggs into a governing body and a system that may not be whats best for wrestling. Let the absolute best continue to shine bright on ESPN, but The sport of wrestling outside of NCAA D1 is growing and there is no doubt we can do better to facilitate it.  

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1 hour ago, wgeorge said:

This ^ I like the idea of empowering club wrestling at the collegiate level including Division 1. NCAA D  1 is loosing teams every year soon enough every school will qualify their whole line up for NCAAs. All the highest rated prospects get stacked onto a few teams that have shown the ability to develop national champions. Only one per weight can wrestle, the big programs have forty kids on a roster which makes for an already watered down NCAA tournament. Not getting to see Gilman as a freshmen, no spot for Nelson Brands, the Bailey and Rogers kids from Okie state, No Cessar the year he beats Colin Moore, Matt Brown potentiality an NCAA finalist the year he lost to Ruth in Scuffle finals, the list could go on for ever and I am sure there are some really good examples I left out.  Let the kids have more autonomy, in many small schools the kids could act as player, coach, athletic director, general manager, and or owner of their own club wrestling teams all the while they will be growing the sport.  If the kids not a D1 starter,  let those kids compete in a club nationals format. Get them more matches if they want them. Let them wrestle in dual meets.  That would mean a club dual meet national title and an individual club national championship set up by a point system from open tournaments and potential regional and or group club qualifying tournaments.   Let all college students compete, wrestle, qualify, broadcast, officiate, coach, for the NCAA club championships regardless of what university they attend. Why put all our eggs into a governing body and a system that may not be whats best for wrestling. Let the absolute best continue to shine bright on ESPN, but The sport of wrestling outside of NCAA D1 is growing and there is no doubt we can do better to facilitate it.  

I don't think those are the best examples. Guys like that are always going to gravitate toward the best programs. A program like Penn st will have some really good guys riding the bench because those guys are willing to do it in order to have a shot to wrestle in those blue and white or gold and black singlets 

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On 3/18/2014 at 1:40 PM, zeeb said:

The NCWA is a great organization but they are essentially college sports clubs that are competing. They're probably the gold standard for college sports club organizations, but they aren't even comparable to actual school teams, no matter how many participants they have.

Theyre not even close to the gold standard. Excellent organization but look at how organized the College Lacrosse league is across Division 1 Power 5 schools. 

 

https://ncllax.com/

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The way things are going, this may be the only organization that sponsors college wrestling. 

There are so many more college wrestling teams than there were 10 years ago. There is no reason to believe varsity college wrestling is going away. For every D1 team that has dropped, dozens have been added in D2, D3, NAIA, and Women.

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16 hours ago, IronChef said:


There are so many more college wrestling teams than there were 10 years ago. There is no reason to believe varsity college wrestling is going away. For every D1 team that has dropped, dozens have been added in D2, D3, NAIA, and Women.

Good point but I am not sure the ratio is 1 to dozens. The schools that are adding wrestling are doing so to boost enrollment or to off set gender imbalance (less males). Most of the schools are private with costs exceeding $40,000:year. Time will tell if these fledgling programs last. 
 

The impact of covid will have a lasting impact on higher education. Look to see online universities boom. Pennsylvania state colleges are hurting for students. Currently there is a plan to consolidate several. 
 

Definitely, unknown times are ahead. Would not be surprised to see wrestling go back to 1 division. 

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3 hours ago, gowrestle said:

Good point but I am not sure the ratio is 1 to dozens. The schools that are adding wrestling are doing so to boost enrollment or to off set gender imbalance (less males). Most of the schools are private with costs exceeding $40,000:year. Time will tell if these fledgling programs last. 
 

The impact of covid will have a lasting impact on higher education. Look to see online universities boom. Pennsylvania state colleges are hurting for students. Currently there is a plan to consolidate several. 
 

Definitely, unknown times are ahead. Would not be surprised to see wrestling go back to 1 division. 

As of the 2018-19 participation report, there were 313 NCAA-sponsored wrestling teams. If you breakout Division I and Division II for a "scholarship" offering division, you'd have 137. I'm waiting for the 2019-20 participation report to be released (usually around this time of year annually), which will provide official statistics to reference. My tracking counts are including announced programs that may start in 2021-22. 

On JUST the men's side, the last time NCAA Division I men's wrestling was over 100 teams was in 1995-96 (106), that year, there were 277 men's college programs sponsored by the NCAA. 

Since then, all three divisions had dips, but Division II and Division III have shown rallies, some with new schools coming on board from the NAIA then adding wrestling, others from Division II members adding wrestling. In 95-96, D2 was at 52 teams. It dipped to 38 teams in 02-03, now D2 is up to 62 as of the reporting 2018-19 year. Division III was at 119 in 95-96, then dipped to a low of 87 teams in 2011-12. As of the end of the 18-19 reporting year, D3 was back up to 108, with more on board for 2019-20 (once official).

The NAIA, which isn't counted in the NCAA research (for obvious reasons) had 18 teams in 2001. EIGHTEEN. They finished 2018-19 with 68. We're at 313 four-year men's programs at the end of the reporting year.

Women's wrestling went from 4 teams in 2001 to an announced 87 teams going into the 2021-22 season across schools in the NCAA, NAIA, NJCAA and the Northwest Conference. 

Per your last line, men's ice hockey has 67 D1/D2 schools competing in "D1 hockey. Men's Volleyball has 46 teams in D1/D2 competing in "national collegiate" men's volleyball. Both of them have separate Division III championships. Under the current structure, there's no indication or evidence we'll go back to one division anytime soon. 

 

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2 hours ago, gowrestle said:

Good point but I am not sure the ratio is 1 to dozens. The schools that are adding wrestling are doing so to boost enrollment or to off set gender imbalance (less males). Most of the schools are private with costs exceeding $40,000:year. Time will tell if these fledgling programs last. 
 

The impact of covid will have a lasting impact on higher education. Look to see online universities boom. Pennsylvania state colleges are hurting for students. Currently there is a plan to consolidate several. 
 

Definitely, unknown times are ahead. Would not be surprised to see wrestling go back to 1 division. 

I could see it going to two divisions, like Ice Hockey etc. I guess D2 teams could choose to go either way

 

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Club wrestling, whether NCWA or another future organization,  should be embraced much more fully by the wrestling community. NCAA D1 programs are too expensive. 1.2 million a year for Fresno State's 30 athletes? That is 40,000 per year per athlete, many times the cost of the college, for what? A status symbol? Many NAIA teams are essentially manipulating their athletes into taking student loans for a subpar education,  so they can be "varsity" athletes. Club wrestlers sweat and bleed  as much as D2, D3 and NAIA athletes. NCWA guys cry just as hard as NCAA guys at the nationals. Club wrestlers can get 90% of the personal benefits, of the lifelong intangibles of D1 guys for 1% of the cost. Most club teams can pay their athletes, give them scholarships, pay coaches whatever they want, they have total freedom. They just don't have any money. Most of the NCAA guys are simply financing our passion, our entertainment with taxpayer or football money. If wrestling wanted to stand on its own two feet, we could have club teams of 25 kids  competing against other college athletes for $25,000 per year. Is one Fresno state worth 48 intercollegiate club teams? Are 30 D1 experiences worth 1200 club experiences?

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15 hours ago, BootScoot122 said:

Club wrestling, whether NCWA or another future organization,  should be embraced much more fully by the wrestling community. NCAA D1 programs are too expensive. 1.2 million a year for Fresno State's 30 athletes? That is 40,000 per year per athlete, many times the cost of the college, for what? A status symbol? Many NAIA teams are essentially manipulating their athletes into taking student loans for a subpar education,  so they can be "varsity" athletes. Club wrestlers sweat and bleed  as much as D2, D3 and NAIA athletes. NCWA guys cry just as hard as NCAA guys at the nationals. Club wrestlers can get 90% of the personal benefits, of the lifelong intangibles of D1 guys for 1% of the cost. Most club teams can pay their athletes, give them scholarships, pay coaches whatever they want, they have total freedom. They just don't have any money. Most of the NCAA guys are simply financing our passion, our entertainment with taxpayer or football money. If wrestling wanted to stand on its own two feet, we could have club teams of 25 kids  competing against other college athletes for $25,000 per year. Is one Fresno state worth 48 intercollegiate club teams? Are 30 D1 experiences worth 1200 club experiences?

Your comparing 30 D1 experiences to 1200 club experiences is making a false comparison.  It is like comparing the NBA players experience to all the men's rec league basketball groups that exist in this country.  Obviously the NBA represents the sport being played at the highest level possible vs the men's rec leagues that exist for many great reasons (fun, exercise, friendships etc) but don't get the per capita resources spent on them that the NBA does. The  D1 programs are American folkstyle wrestling being done at the highest and most competitive form there is in this country.  NCWA is great and I am a full supporter of having as many club teams as possible but it will not be able to replace what exists in D1 today.  You are fooling yourself if you think the level of ability and in most cases commitment is the same.

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