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Ed Ruth all-time at Penn State?

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Hoping Ed Ruth wins his Third title this weekend. Smart, tough and entertaining. His record has to be one of the finest in Penn State history.

 

Where does he stand in total vicories, NCAA Titles and whatnot in Penn State Wrestling all time?

 

No doubt he is one of the finest wrestlers they have ever had with one of the best records over his career at the school. Where does he stand in school history?

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I'm wondering if he didn't get injured his freshman year at the tournament; would he have possibly made the finals and given Mooch, Lewnes and or Reader a battle? Probably not, but still a great year for him.

 

If he wins it all again, and in dominating fashion, he deserves to be in the conversation as one of the best Lions in their storied history.

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Penn State has never had a 3 time champ so I think Ed has the opportunity to go down as their all time great with a win on Saturday night.

 

If DT wins a championship and the Hodge, he probably still has an argument considering he will be the all time ncaa point scorer and had to deal with Dake his junior year. They have virtually the same winning percentage. I think he will be at least a clear #2 and some fans may put him ahead of Ruth despite one less championship.

 

What's crazy in all this is that these guys wrestled all 4 years together. How many teams have had their 2 best wrestlers in the history of the program wrestle together like that? We have been very fortunate as PSU fans.

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Also Quentin Wright on the team -some times overlooked so maybe 3 of the best of PSU

on same team.

 

With Taylor losing close to Dake (one of all time colleged greats) 2 wins and 2 runner ups would be impressive. (damn Bubba you did get even -never seen that haymaker coming ).

 

Frank C

 

PS another few days still before we are talking 2x and 3x anything can happen! Ask Bubba!

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Ruth and Taylor are certainly a pair of all timers. Neither will end up on any non Penn Staters list of the all time greats in all of the NCAA, but they were the guys along with Wright that basically put Penn State back on the wrestling mat for sure.

 

As the one article headline stated, they will be missed but not forgotten.

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I still remember Ruth handling Lewnes and being dumbfounded. Shocked the hell out of me. And then he did it again. At which point, now win by him would have been surprising. Would have loved to see him vs Reader in the finals. Would he have won? Maybe not but it would have been awesome to see.

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I'm wondering if he didn't get injured his freshman year at the tournament; would he have possibly made the finals and given Mooch, Lewnes and or Reader a battle? Probably not, but still a great year for him.

 

If he wins it all again, and in dominating fashion, he deserves to be in the conversation as one of the best Lions in their storied history.

 

I'm a huge Ruth fan and he's my favorite wrestler but Mooch was kicking his ass that match turning him easy.

 

I would have liked to seen him wrestle Reader though.

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Kerry McCoy has the most wins as a Nittany Lion (159).

 

Ruth currently is at 132 (Taylor 130).

 

Hopefully they each go 5-0 Thursday through Sat. That will put them as the #'s 5 and 6 All-Time on the PSU wins list behind McCoy, Dr. Jim Martin (155), Josh Moore (146) and Greg Elinsky (138).

 

Taylor passed Sonny Abe (128) at the B1G Championships, Ruth did when he won against Clarion.

 

Ruth is tied with McCoy, Quentin Wright, Jeff Prescott and Andy Matter as the only 2 time NCAA champs for Penn State.

 

Taylor and Wright are the schools only 3 time finalists.

 

If Ruth wins out he will be Penn State's 1st 3 time NCAA champ. If Taylor makes the finals he will be Penn State's 1st 4 time finalist.

 

If each wins it on Saturday, Ruth would be Penn State's all-time leader in winning %, Taylor 2nd, Andy Matter 3rd.

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Ruth and Taylor are certainly a pair of all timers. Neither will end up on any non Penn Staters list of the all time greats in all of the NCAA, but they were the guys along with Wright that basically put Penn State back on the wrestling mat for sure.

 

As the one article headline stated, they will be missed but not forgotten.

 

I don't think that's true. If Ed Ruth wins this year, he'll go down as an all time great.

 

And if Ruth and Taylor stop winning, you can certainly believe that they will be forgotten. Many tough wrestlers of the past have been forgotten because they didn't win on the big stage (Worlds/Olympics).

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"Ruth is tied with McCoy, Quentin Wright and Andy Matter as the only 2 time NCAA champs for Penn State."

 

 

Didn't Jeff Prescott win two? Not trying to nit-pick. I'm getting old and it's very possible that I'm remembering wrong.

 

 

You are correct Sir!

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"Ruth is tied with McCoy, Quentin Wright and Andy Matter as the only 2 time NCAA champs for Penn State."

 

 

Didn't Jeff Prescott win two? Not trying to nit-pick. I'm getting old and it's very possible that I'm remembering wrong.

I did forget Jeff - which is unexcusable as I was talking with Stephen Abas about him only a couple of weeks ago at CA State!

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I think the two of them will be joined together for all of history, in terms of college wrestling. I think they are tied for first in PSU history. This is because they are the leaders on the only multiple-time team champions in Penn State history. Their individual performances are so close, that the difference in value will be debated for years.

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I think the two of them will be joined together for all of history, in terms of college wrestling. I think they are tied for first in PSU history. This is because they are the leaders on the only multiple-time team champions in Penn State history. Their individual performances are so close, that the difference in value will be debated for years.

 

If Ruth wins this year, he has a clear edge over Taylor. I'm not sure why any PSU fan would argue for Taylor over Ruth.

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I think the two of them will be joined together for all of history, in terms of college wrestling. I think they are tied for first in PSU history. This is because they are the leaders on the only multiple-time team champions in Penn State history. Their individual performances are so close, that the difference in value will be debated for years.

 

If Ruth wins this year, he has a clear edge over Taylor. I'm not sure why any PSU fan would argue for Taylor over Ruth.

 

If they both win out ...

 

They will both have three career losses. All of Taylor's losses will have been to NCAA champs.

 

Taylor will have more career falls (by 5), tech falls (by 18) and bonus point victories (by 20). Ruth will have more major decisions (by 3).

 

Taylor could very well join Ben Askren and Cael Sanderson as the only multipe Hodge Trophy winners.

 

Taylor will be a four-time finalist, Ruth a three-time finalist.

 

Ruth will be a three-time champion, Taylor a two-time champion.

 

Nothing clear about the edge for either wrestler.

 

They will be 1 and 1(a) on the PSU list of all-time greats.

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They are both freaking good. They are both PSU legends, for sure.

 

As far as freestyle. I'm not sure Taylor can beat Burroughs or that Ruth can beat Foster. (Foster just beat world champ Aldatov.) I also wonder if Ruth will try MMA like his friend and fellow Lion Phil Davis.

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I think the two of them will be joined together for all of history, in terms of college wrestling. I think they are tied for first in PSU history. This is because they are the leaders on the only multiple-time team champions in Penn State history. Their individual performances are so close, that the difference in value will be debated for years.

 

If Ruth wins this year, he has a clear edge over Taylor. I'm not sure why any PSU fan would argue for Taylor over Ruth.

 

If they both win out ...

 

They will both have three career losses. All of Taylor's losses will have been to NCAA champs.

 

Taylor will have more career falls (by 5), tech falls (by 18) and bonus point victories (by 20). Ruth will have more major decisions (by 3).

 

Taylor could very well join Ben Askren and Cael Sanderson as the only multipe Hodge Trophy winners.

 

Taylor will be a four-time finalist, Ruth a three-time finalist.

 

Ruth will be a three-time champion, Taylor a two-time champion.

 

Nothing clear about the edge for either wrestler.

 

They will be 1 and 1(a) on the PSU list of all-time greats.

 

Very similar statistics across the board. With everything else being so close, a third ncaa title would clearly give Ruth the edge. Ncaa titles is what it's all about at the end of the day. If Ruth wins out, are PSU fans really going to hold out on giving him the edge because DT had a slightly higher bonus point %? Really? In light of what Dake did to Taylor?

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I think the two of them will be joined together for all of history, in terms of college wrestling. I think they are tied for first in PSU history. This is because they are the leaders on the only multiple-time team champions in Penn State history. Their individual performances are so close, that the difference in value will be debated for years.

 

If Ruth wins this year, he has a clear edge over Taylor. I'm not sure why any PSU fan would argue for Taylor over Ruth.

I can see your point since Ruth has one more title than Taylor. However, right now, I'm inclined to agree with socalnittanny that its difficult to differentiate between the two. Here's some other factors for consideration:

 

Currently, Taylor has scored scored 74 points in his three NCAA appearances. (Ruth has 72.)

Taylor won the Gorriaran Award in 2013 and 2012. (Ruth won the Gorriaran in 2011.)

Their career records to date are 130-3 for Taylor and 132-3 for Ruth (win rates of 97.74% and 97.78%).

Ruth had undefeated seasons in 2012 and 2013. (Taylor was undefeated in 2012 and so far in 2014.)

 

While both are prolific bonus point scorers, I believe Taylor has been slightly better than Ruth to this point in their careers. For example, this year Taylor leads the NCAA Most Dominate Wrestler standings, scoring an average of 5.1071 points per match. Ruth is third with an average of 4.5714. Taylor also has the edge over Ruth in the other two NCAA award categories (falls and techs) this year.

 

NCAA Division I Award Leader Standings (as of March 14, 2014)

 

Division I Most Dominant

Rank/Name/School/WtClass/Points

1 David Taylor Penn State 165 5.1071

2 Logan Stieber Ohio State 141 4.5833

3 Edward Ruth Penn State 184 4.5714

4 Robert Kokesh Nebraska 174 4.3103

4 Aaron (A.J.) Schopp Edinboro 133 4.3103

6 Andrew Howe Oklahoma 174 4.25

7 Steven Monk North Dakota State University 165 4.1379

8 Nick Gwiazdowski North Carolina State 285 4.0857

9 Mitchell Port Edinboro 141 4.0417

10 Taylor Walsh Indiana 157 4.0286

 

Division I Fall Leaders

1 Joe Stolfi Bucknell 285 21 62:36

2 Taylor Walsh Indiana 157 21 62:50

3 Harrison Hightower Ohio 165 13 27:50

4 Dylan Peters Northern Iowa 125 13 36:35

5 David Taylor Penn State 165 12 32:12

6 Kevin Birmingham Davidson 149 12 36:39

7 Nick Gwiazdowski North Carolina State 285 11 32:06

8 Ophir Bernstein Brown 184 11 34:20

9 Brian Realbuto Cornell 157 11 39:41

10 Evan Henderson North Carolina 141 10 21:37

 

Division I Tech Fall Leaders

1 Logan Stieber Ohio State 141 10 49:55

2 Joe Colon Northern Iowa 133 10 58:36

3 Tyler Graff Wisconsin 133 8 19:13

4 Cody Brewer Oklahoma 133 8 45:14

5 David Taylor Penn State 165 8 50:22

6 Alex Hudson Chattanooga 157 7 30:15

7 Nahshon Garrett Cornell 125 7 40:55

8 Ed Ruth Penn State 184 7 45:37

9 Jesse Delgado Illinois 125 6 29:53

10 Austin Trott Gardner-Webb 165 5 24:22

 

Last, but not least, Taylor has a realistic shot at becoming only the third wrestler to win multiple Hodge Awards. (If so, he'll be the first to win the award in nonconsecutive years.)

 

Based on the above, I wouldn't be able to pick one guy over the other. And, if they both run the table at NCAA's, it might still be impossible for me to make that call. But that's just my personal opinion. (It will be very interesting to see how they close out their careers.)

.

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HurricaneWrestling,

 

If you acknowledge that both guys are separated by only a slight difference in bonus point % then why should Taylor be seriously considered for going over Ruth? Why doesn't the extra ncaa title, which is what it's all about at the end of the day, make it clear that Ruth gets the nod? Slight bonus point % edge overrides an ncaa title? I don't see that at all. I think you are putting too much emphasis on the wrong things here.

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If Ruth wins this year, he has a clear edge over Taylor. I'm not sure why any PSU fan would argue for Taylor over Ruth.

 

If they both win out ...

 

They will both have three career losses. All of Taylor's losses will have been to NCAA champs.

 

Taylor will have more career falls (by 5), tech falls (by 18) and bonus point victories (by 20). Ruth will have more major decisions (by 3).

 

Taylor could very well join Ben Askren and Cael Sanderson as the only multipe Hodge Trophy winners.

 

Taylor will be a four-time finalist, Ruth a three-time finalist.

 

Ruth will be a three-time champion, Taylor a two-time champion.

 

Nothing clear about the edge for either wrestler.

 

They will be 1 and 1(a) on the PSU list of all-time greats.

 

Very similar statistics across the board. With everything else being so close, a third ncaa title would clearly give Ruth the edge. Ncaa titles is what it's all about at the end of the day. If Ruth wins out, are PSU fans really going to hold out on giving him the edge because DT had a slightly higher bonus point %? Really? In light of what Dake did to Taylor?

Of course Dake's victories over Taylor definitely factor into the evaluation. But, as PhiferFuqua alludes to, you can argue that the two guys who beat Taylor (in particular Dake) were better wrestlers than the three guys Ruth has lost to (Letts, Mooch and Dean). Taylor just had the misfortune of having one of the all-time greats in his weight class last year. And, although Dake was clearly the better guy, Taylor kept all of their matches to a one-point margin.

 

Let me ask it like this, superold: Has Ruth had to face anyone as good as Dake during his career? And, if not, then - when comparing Taylor and Ruth - shouldn't we consider the respective level of competition each wrestler faced?

 

That said, like you, I usually give a lot of weight to championships. However, when one racks up numerous awards (all designed to recognize the best wrestler, either overall or in specified categories) then that also has to factor into the evaluation. Again, that's just my opinion. I don't think there's any right or wrong answer - just different value judgments that we fans assign to various accomplishments. As I stated earlier, I see your point and I also agree its a reasonable position to take. I just believe they're too close in overall accomplishments to say who is "greater" (which is a somewhat subjective term anyway).

 

BTW, I was typing up my response and didn't see PhiferFuqua's post earlier. But, as you may have noted, we both considered some of the same factors (other than total titles) as important to the evaluation. My guess is that there are other Penn State fans who feel the same way. However, whether one or the other is rated "greater" (or if they're considered equally great), I'm just glad we got to watch them perform the past four years.

.

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