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Flying-Tiger

David Taylor; What Have You Won?

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Taylor and Ruth represent something that wrestling needs.

 

They don't just win. They win with aggressiveness and style. I am so tired of the low scoring OT ride out type of match that many of today's stars rely upon.

 

Dake beat Taylor. I get it, so you haters take a break. But Taylor was just way more fun to watch. Try to deny that. Dake was content with 2 point wins. Taylor wants to crush his opponent. As does Ruth.

 

And that's what wrestling needs. Scorers. Panache. We complain about the sport dying, but the very kids who may save the sport are the ones who draw cynical criticism from some on this site.

 

Tsirtsis has the potential to be a scoring machine, imo. But in his match he didn't turn it on until OT. If he can turn it on in the first period and maintain it throughout, we've got a winner.

 

I root against Nelson not because he's from Minny but because he's a bore to watch. One minute into his bouts I am nodding off.

 

If wrestling is to have a future outside of the community, i.e. if it is to develop a fan base, we need more Taylors and Steibers, guys who it is fun to watch.

 

Next year we have Marsteller and Snyder coming up. I'll say that if Marsteller translates his talent to the college level, he'll be as popular as Taylor is today. We NEED guys like him and Snyder to carry the baton.

 

Tighten up the stalling calls and open up the game. That's the way wrestling will survive.

 

Oldcougar, wasn't Kyle Dake the reason for all of the excitement last year? His quest for 4 NCAA titles caused probably the biggest wrestling media frenzy that I've ever seen. I'm not sure if it's accurate to call him boring. Last year, I would have rather watched a Kyle Dake match over any other ncaa wrestlers.

 

And I'm not convinced that "scoring machines" will cause a noticeable increase in viewers. I keep hearing that over and over again, but I never see anything to back it up.

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And I'm not convinced that "scoring machines" will cause a noticeable increase in viewers. I keep hearing that over and over again, but I never see anything to back it up.

 

I'm not one to be critical- but really? That is one of the worst quotes I have EVER seen. How much criticism do you see on these boards do you see on Tony Nelson, Chris Perry, etc? Anyone in their right mind would rather watch David Taylor, Logan Stieber, Ed Ruth, Jordan Burroughs, Jordan Oliver style of wrestling. Kids here in our local gym in Western PA all know who David Taylor and Jordan Burroughs is. I'm not sure they know anyone else, and yes they are quite young still.

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Dakes 5-0 ---- odds are Taylor will get him eventually.

 

After 1 win is he better with a1-5 record or will only last win count?

 

Just curious not here to name call.

College is over and Dake was better in college. If one day David beats Kyle in Freestyle and does so convincingly (and also has similar or better performances against better opponents), then David will have surpassed Dake at that moment in Freestyle. Won't change their college careers though.

 

Edit: in fact I might argue the performances against common opponents is the key here. If he rises higher on the freestyle ladder than Dake, he'll be considered better regardless of whether or not he beats Dake. For now though, Dake wins the matches, Dake is higher on the ladder, Dake is better.

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Dakes 5-0 ---- odds are Taylor will get him eventually.

 

After 1 win is he better with a1-5 record or will only last win count?

 

Just curious not here to name call.

 

By gets the better I mean eventually starts winning more than 50% of their meetings and that is said with the utmost respect for Dake he is truly an elite maybe top 3 ever guy. My comments may be more of want then reality being a Taylor fan. But one can be a fan can't they and I think Taylor has the skill set to one day make my prediction a reality.

 

Also, of note They where wrestling when Taylor was a junior and Dake a senior is Taylor better now then he was last year. I don't know that answer but its possible having another year under his belt would have changed 1 or more of the epic dake taylor matches.

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Dakes 5-0 ---- odds are Taylor will get him eventually.

 

After 1 win is he better with a1-5 record or will only last win count?

 

Just curious not here to name call.

College is over and Dake was better in college. If one day David beats Kyle in Freestyle and does so convincingly (and also has similar or better performances against better opponents), then David will have surpassed Dake at that moment in Freestyle. Won't change their college careers though.

 

Edit: in fact I might argue the performances against common opponents is the key here. If he rises higher on the freestyle ladder than Dake, he'll be considered better regardless of whether or not he beats Dake. For now though, Dake wins the matches, Dake is higher on the ladder, Dake is better.

 

Dake and Taylor have a common opponent in Tsargush. Of course Taylor lost by technical fall 0-8 and Dake won 10-5. I've always said that if you raise the level of competition to the highest level, Dake would continue to win and have a better record/point differential against common opponents. That's why I was never too moved by the fact that David Taylor could put up better numbers than Dake against the weaker college competition. Dake is the more "dominant" wrestler when the stakes and competition are at its highest.That matters a ton more. And when you consider the fact that Dake has a 5-0 record head to head, the comparisons between the two simply don't make that much sense. In the past I compared it to the fact that Andrew Alton had more pins halfway through his true freshman season than Mcilravy had his entire college career! Although that's true, most (should be all) recognize the difference between those two wrestlers.

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Also, of note They where wrestling when Taylor was a junior and Dake a senior is Taylor better now then he was last year. I don't know that answer but its possible having another year under his belt would have changed 1 or more of the epic dake taylor matches.

 

In all fairness, redshirt junior vs. true senior. They both had the same number of years in college when they wrestled.

 

That being said, they are both fantastic and I think the rivalry between them has been and will continue to be a blessing for the sport. Clearly Dake has the edge head-to-head thus far, but Taylor has been able to score more on most of their common opponents. I just try to appreciate them both. I don't see why there is this constant need to try to tear one of them down. I'm a Cornell fan and will always root for Dake when they meet head-to-head, but I absolutely love watching Taylor wrestle.

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Also, of note They where wrestling when Taylor was a junior and Dake a senior is Taylor better now then he was last year. I don't know that answer but its possible having another year under his belt would have changed 1 or more of the epic dake taylor matches.

 

In all fairness, redshirt junior vs. true senior. They both had the same number of years in college when they wrestled.

 

That being said, they are both fantastic and I think the rivalry between them has been and will continue to be a blessing for the sport. Clearly Dake has the edge head-to-head thus far, but Taylor has been able to score more on most of their common opponents. I just try to appreciate them both. I don't see why there is this constant need to try to tear one of them down. I'm a Cornell fan and will always root for Dake when they meet head-to-head, but I absolutely love watching Taylor wrestle.

 

Good catch. They did have the same amount of college experience at the time of their matches.

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Dakes 5-0 ---- odds are Taylor will get him eventually.

 

After 1 win is he better with a1-5 record or will only last win count?

 

Just curious not here to name call.

College is over and Dake was better in college. If one day David beats Kyle in Freestyle and does so convincingly (and also has similar or better performances against better opponents), then David will have surpassed Dake at that moment in Freestyle. Won't change their college careers though.

 

Edit: in fact I might argue the performances against common opponents is the key here. If he rises higher on the freestyle ladder than Dake, he'll be considered better regardless of whether or not he beats Dake. For now though, Dake wins the matches, Dake is higher on the ladder, Dake is better.

 

Dake and Taylor have a common opponent in Tsargush. Of course Taylor lost by technical fall 0-8 and Dake won 10-5. I've always said that if you raise the level of competition to the highest level, Dake would continue to win and have a better record/point differential against common opponents. That's why I was never too moved by the fact that David Taylor could put up better numbers than Dake against the weaker college competition. Dake is the more "dominant" wrestler when the stakes and competition are at its highest.That matters a ton more. And when you consider the fact that Dake has a 5-0 record head to head, the comparisons between the two simply don't make that much sense. In the past I compared it to the fact that Andrew Alton had more pins halfway through his true freshman season than Mcilravy had his entire college career! Although that's true, most (should be all) recognize the difference between those two wrestlers.

I'm well aware and I agree with you, for now. All I'm saying is that it may not be the case one day. Impossible to predict the future especially considering Taylor hasn't even started training freestyle full-time yet.

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And I'm not convinced that "scoring machines" will cause a noticeable increase in viewers. I keep hearing that over and over again, but I never see anything to back it up.

 

I'm not one to be critical- but really? That is one of the worst quotes I have EVER seen. How much criticism do you see on these boards do you see on Tony Nelson, Chris Perry, etc? Anyone in their right mind would rather watch David Taylor, Logan Stieber, Ed Ruth, Jordan Burroughs, Jordan Oliver style of wrestling. Kids here in our local gym in Western PA all know who David Taylor and Jordan Burroughs is. I'm not sure they know anyone else, and yes they are quite young still.

 

Watching Taylor continually tilt inferior opponents is boring.

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I'm well aware and I agree with you, for now. All I'm saying is that it may not be the case one day. Impossible to predict the future especially considering Taylor hasn't even started training freestyle full-time yet.

 

Well anything can happen I guess. For all we know, Colt Sponsellor may one day reach the top of the 74kg weight class in the U.S.

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And I'm not convinced that "scoring machines" will cause a noticeable increase in viewers. I keep hearing that over and over again, but I never see anything to back it up.

 

I'm not one to be critical- but really? That is one of the worst quotes I have EVER seen. How much criticism do you see on these boards do you see on Tony Nelson, Chris Perry, etc? Anyone in their right mind would rather watch David Taylor, Logan Stieber, Ed Ruth, Jordan Burroughs, Jordan Oliver style of wrestling. Kids here in our local gym in Western PA all know who David Taylor and Jordan Burroughs is. I'm not sure they know anyone else, and yes they are quite young still.

 

Watching Taylor continually tilt inferior opponents is boring.

I agree, but that's his opponents fault.

 

 

I'm well aware and I agree with you, for now. All I'm saying is that it may not be the case one day. Impossible to predict the future especially considering Taylor hasn't even started training freestyle full-time yet.

 

Well anything can happen I guess. For all we know, Colt Sponsellor may one day reach the top of the 74kg weight class in the U.S.

I was merely responding to the hypothetical proposed above me and in your response you even agreed with what I wrote.

 

You should know from my name alone that I'm a MUCH bigger fan of Dake than I am of Taylor. I hope Taylor never rises higher on the ladder than Dake, but considering these guys are 23 with a huge amount freestyle ahead of them (and not a whole lot of freestyle behind them) it wouldn't shocking if he does. Injuries, life priorities, age, and many other factors can and will affect them over the next decade.

 

With that said, it's irrelevant to my post because I was only responding to the hypothetical scenario posited above me. You even agreed with what I posted. Not sure why you insist on being obtuse here.

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I'm well aware and I agree with you, for now. All I'm saying is that it may not be the case one day. Impossible to predict the future especially considering Taylor hasn't even started training freestyle full-time yet.

 

Well anything can happen I guess. For all we know, Colt Sponsellor may one day reach the top of the 74kg weight class in the U.S.

I was merely responding to the hypothetical proposed above me and in your response you even agreed with what I wrote.

 

You should know from my name alone that I'm a MUCH bigger fan of Dake than I am of Taylor. I hope Taylor never rises higher on the ladder than Dake, but considering these guys are 23 with a huge amount freestyle ahead of them (and not a whole lot of freestyle behind them) it wouldn't shocking if he does. Injuries, life priorities, age, and many other factors can and will affect them over the next decade.

 

With that said, it's irrelevant to my post because I was only responding to the hypothetical scenario posited above me. You even agreed with what I posted. Not sure why you insist on being obtuse here.

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I was merely responding to the hypothetical proposed above me and in your response you even agreed with what I wrote.

 

You should know from my name alone that I'm a MUCH bigger fan of Dake than I am of Taylor. I hope Taylor never rises higher on the ladder than Dake, but considering these guys are 23 with a huge amount freestyle ahead of them (and not a whole lot of freestyle behind them) it wouldn't shocking if he does. Injuries, life priorities, age, and many other factors can and will affect them over the next decade.

 

With that said, it's irrelevant to my post because I was only responding to the hypothetical scenario posited above me. You even agreed with what I posted. Not sure why you insist on being obtuse here.

 

 

BigRedmachine, I wasn't being obtuse. Just wanted to clear this up.

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Edit: in fact I might argue the performances against common opponents is the key here. If he rises higher on the freestyle ladder than Dake, he'll be considered better regardless of whether or not he beats Dake. For now though, Dake wins the matches, Dake is higher on the ladder, Dake is better.

 

Taylor Tech Howe while in college. Dake won in overtime.

 

Pretty convincing head to head win for Taylor being the superior wrestler.

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Edit: in fact I might argue the performances against common opponents is the key here. If he rises higher on the freestyle ladder than Dake, he'll be considered better regardless of whether or not he beats Dake. For now though, Dake wins the matches, Dake is higher on the ladder, Dake is better.

 

Taylor Tech Howe while in college. Dake won in overtime.

 

Pretty convincing head to head win for Taylor being the superior wrestler.

 

If anyone wants to take into account common opponents, then Dake had a very close win over Nick Marable while Taylor totally dominated Marable.

 

3, 2, 1 ....

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Edit: in fact I might argue the performances against common opponents is the key here. If he rises higher on the freestyle ladder than Dake, he'll be considered better regardless of whether or not he beats Dake. For now though, Dake wins the matches, Dake is higher on the ladder, Dake is better.

 

Taylor Tech Howe while in college. Dake won in overtime.

 

Pretty convincing head to head win for Taylor being the superior wrestler.

 

Taylor was also handled by Andrew Howe during his college career. Dake lost to Howe a few years back a few months after winning ncaas at 149. Taylor won ncaas at 165 before he lost to Howe.

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You should know from my name alone that I'm a MUCH bigger fan of Dake than I am of Taylor. I hope Taylor never rises higher on the ladder than Dake, but considering these guys are 23 with a huge amount freestyle ahead of them (and not a whole lot of freestyle behind them) it wouldn't shocking if he does. Injuries, life priorities, age, and many other factors can and will affect them over the next decade.

 

With that said, it's irrelevant to my post because I was only responding to the hypothetical scenario posited above me. You even agreed with what I posted. Not sure why you insist on being obtuse here.

 

Bigredmachine, I wasn't being obtuse.

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Edit: in fact I might argue the performances against common opponents is the key here. If he rises higher on the freestyle ladder than Dake, he'll be considered better regardless of whether or not he beats Dake. For now though, Dake wins the matches, Dake is higher on the ladder, Dake is better.

 

Taylor Tech Howe while in college. Dake won in overtime.

 

Pretty convincing head to head win for Taylor being the superior wrestler.

 

Taylor was also handled by Andrew Howe during his college career. Dake lost to Howe a few years back a few months after winning ncaas at 149. Taylor won ncaas at 165 before he lost to Howe.

 

The Taylor loss to Howe is ancient compared to the Taylor Tech on Howe. This is like Taylor thoroughly beating Marable last year while Marable just beat Burroughs. I'm sure most people would give more credence to what happened more recently.

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Taylor was also handled by Andrew Howe during his college career. Dake lost to Howe a few years back a few months after winning ncaas at 149. Taylor won ncaas at 165 before he lost to Howe.

 

The Taylor loss to Howe is ancient compared to the Taylor Tech on Howe.

 

I think the match was about a year apart.

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