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PhiferFuqua

All-time tourney point scorers

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I think Dake was amazing. My question is if you were a coach, which one would you rather have on your team. If I were a college coach, I know I would rather have the guy that can put up bonus points even against top five opponents consistently. Dake was a more technically capable wrestler in that he was less likely to make a mistake to give up points. Taylor can score from anywhere while doing things that make it look like he should be thrown to his back. Taylor is obviously more dangerous. He had more pins, more techs, equal amount of majors. To only have 9% of your matches won by regular decision is ridiculous. Dake is better head to head no doubt about it. Dake and Taylor would both beat everyone they face in college from their sophomore years on. I just think Taylor is the guy you want on your team first.

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as far as college is concerned it is near impossible to consider Taylor over Dake

 

even with 4 finals appearances, 2 NCAA titles, 2 NCAA Gorriarans, 2 NCAA OW's and likely 2 Hodges - Dake's 4X's and head-to-heads trumps Taylor

 

although...

 

Taylor's 4 team titles has to soften the blow

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If Dake and Taylor were at the same weight all 4 years I would pick Dake without any hesitation. Dake would have won the weight EVERY year and Taylor would have taken no better than 2nd. That takes the 9.5 pts Taylor earned in his 2 championship years away and Dake would definitely have outscored Taylor. ARGUMENT OVER.........

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If Dake and Taylor were at the same weight all 4 years I would pick Dake without any hesitation. Dake would have won the weight EVERY year and Taylor would have taken no better than 2nd. That takes the 9.5 pts Taylor earned in his 2 championship years away and Dake would definitely have outscored Taylor. ARGUMENT OVER.........

 

But that isn't the case would Dake have won 157 his freshmen year? If I had to choose from their exact 4 year career not a hypothetical if he was at this weight ect ect. Based purely on what actually took place and not what I think would have taken place. Taylor is the better choice to win team titles Dake is the better choice to win individual titles. Different objectives.

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The lengths some people will go to, to convince themselves of something they know deep down isn't true. Lol.

DT was a GREAT collegiate wrestler. One of the best of the past ten years, no doubt. Kyle Dake was better every year they were in college together, and had the far better career, and continues to be better. Period.

You guys want to play hypotheticals? What if DT didn't redshirt his freshman year. He'd be a 1X champ.

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Without Dake, I think Taylor's final appearances are a little less legitimate. While he wrestled talented kids in each final, Dake is the only one that will probably have a long withstanding impact on wrestling outside of message boards. Taylor's opponents will probably make a good "Where are they now?" topic. Hatchet? Caldwell? (who will be referred as "no, not the one that beat Metcalf) and Bubba? Seems like he'll tool around in MMA for awhile. I think Taylor was/is really good, but this argument will never end, and my point isn't to end it. I'm not a huge Dake fan, but you can't argue four individual titles...you really can't argue four at four different weights without taking a redshirt. He wasn't flashy, but he won.

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NJWC, we all know Dake has the 4 individual championships to Taylor's 2, but Taylor's phenomenal point scoring is still what makes young wrestlers want to be like Taylor first, even when compared to Dake.

 

Taylor's style also translates to others on the team trying to emulate what he does, which is equally important to the team concept. It is these reasons why Cael Sanderson would, even in hindsight, choose Taylor over Dake. And given Sanderson won the last 4 titles, his opinion means something.

 

Had Taylor finished in 2nd in 2013 wrestling with a style like Dake's, then Penn State would have lost to Oklahoma State. That is why Penn State fans think so highly of him. He's a big time scorer. Wrestling needs more David Taylors.

 

3 .... 2..... 1..... :lol:

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NJWC, we all know Dake has the 4 individual championships to Taylor's 2, but Taylor's phenomenal point scoring is still what makes young wrestlers want to be like Taylor first, even when compared to Dake.

 

Taylor's style also translates to others on the team trying to emulate what he does, which is equally important to the team concept. It is these reasons why Cael Sanderson would, even in hindsight, choose Taylor over Dake. And given Sanderson won the last 4 titles, his opinion means something.

 

Had Taylor finished in 2nd in 2013 wrestling with a style like Dake's, then Penn State would have lost to Oklahoma State. That is why Penn State fans think so highly of him. He's a big time scorer. Wrestling needs more David Taylors.

 

3 .... 2..... 1..... :lol:

 

Do you guys HONESTLY think Sanderson was going to say he would pick someone else in that interview? Do you think Rob Koll would have picked Taylor over Dake? Do you think John Smith would have said he would pick someone over Chris Perry if he was asked the same question? The ignorance on here some times is laughable.......

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NJWC, we all know Dake has the 4 individual championships to Taylor's 2, but Taylor's phenomenal point scoring is still what makes young wrestlers want to be like Taylor first, even when compared to Dake.

 

Taylor's style also translates to others on the team trying to emulate what he does, which is equally important to the team concept. It is these reasons why Cael Sanderson would, even in hindsight, choose Taylor over Dake. And given Sanderson won the last 4 titles, his opinion means something.

 

Had Taylor finished in 2nd in 2013 wrestling with a style like Dake's, then Penn State would have lost to Oklahoma State. That is why Penn State fans think so highly of him. He's a big time scorer. Wrestling needs more David Taylors.

 

3 .... 2..... 1..... :lol:

 

How many young wrestlers have you polled about this? Lol, the true measurement of a wrestler is how many young wrestlers tell TBalllicker that they want to be like DT?

Dake was better, and Dake is better. 5-0 head to head. 4 titles to 2. No redshirt. Stop embarrassing yourself.

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I think Dake was amazing. My question is if you were a coach, which one would you rather have on your team. If I were a college coach, I know I would rather have the guy that can put up bonus points even against top five opponents consistently. Dake was a more technically capable wrestler in that he was less likely to make a mistake to give up points. Taylor can score from anywhere while doing things that make it look like he should be thrown to his back. Taylor is obviously more dangerous. He had more pins, more techs, equal amount of majors. To only have 9% of your matches won by regular decision is ridiculous. Dake is better head to head no doubt about it. Dake and Taylor would both beat everyone they face in college from their sophomore years on. I just think Taylor is the guy you want on your team first.

 

Trolling 10/10

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Do you guys HONESTLY think Sanderson was going to say he would pick someone else in that interview? Do you think Rob Koll would have picked Taylor over Dake? Do you think John Smith would have said he would pick someone over Chris Perry if he was asked the same question? The ignorance on here some times is laughable.......

 

I would expect those coaches to say exactly what you implied they would say, they are never going to diss their guys. Keep in mind that Cael wasn't asked about this, he just came out and said it. He would not want anyone else to build a program around more than David Taylor. His words, and I can see why he said them.

 

You guys are not getting the major reason here. It has nothing to do with two close losses to Kyle Dake. Nothing. It has everything to do with his style of wrestling and his personality.

 

3, 2, 1 ....

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These are four-time finalists (plus Ed Ruth) since 1975 with the career team points they scored in the NCAA tourney:

 

Cael Sanderson 107.5

Ed Banach 103.5

David Taylor 99

Pat Smith 99

Ed Ruth 94.5

Lincoln McIlravy 94

Kyle Dake 92

Steve Mocco 90

Daryl Burley 89.5

Ben Askern 87.5

Lee Kemp 86

Jake Varner 80.5

Mark Branch 79

Duane Goldman 78

 

 

Logan Stieber has 77.5 thru his junior year. If he matches this year's result next year, he'll move into 2nd all time with 104.

 

 

Amazing that Steiber has scored that much. He could finish 2nd to Cael-never would have guessed that. Pretty amazing list. ONly two OLympic champs on that list-Cael and Varner. Ed was in that depleted 1984 games.

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lol, no. Here's the one number that really matters: NCAA titles, Kyle Dake: 4 vs. David Taylor: 2. You can try and defend Taylor having a better career however you want, but it won't make it true.

 

Bringing this thread back since we can add Logie's 104.5 to the all-time list. And to this fellow, yeah man you're totally right. Dan Gable and J Jaggers are equally as good. They have the same amount of titles, which is apparently all that matters.

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Good stuff. Are you adjusting scoring based on today's scoring rules? Many changes over the years (tech falls v superior decisions, incomplete v full WBs, varying rules regarding advancement points and byes).

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wondered this myself.

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vsnej said

2010 3 dec, 1 major, 1 fall = 23

2013 3 dec, 2 major = 22 

 

If I'm not mistaken the base points for a NC (w/o bonus) should be 5 pts for advancing thru the bracket plus 16 placement points for a total of 21 pts.  So 2010 would be plus 3 = 24 pts and 2013 would be + 2 = 23 pts

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