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Northern_Fan

Flying Tiger and PA-Fan

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scribe, I'm not a PSU fan, but I was the one who said Dake stalled his ass off.

 

Thank you for coming forward with this.

 

As I said Scribe, most of the comments you are referring to are from neutral fans. Blaming this on PSU fans is falsly accusing. No pun intended here, just stating...

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scribe, I'm not a PSU fan, but I was the one who said Dake stalled his ass off.

 

Thank you for coming forward with this.

 

As I said Scribe, most of the comments you are referring to are from neutral fans. Blaming this on PSU fans is falsly accusing. No pun intended here, just stating...

 

 

Oh, anonymous poster with 4 posts claims to be unbiased and then sides with you. Obviously this is the font of truth we have all been waiting for.

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scribe, I'm not a PSU fan, but I was the one who said Dake stalled his ass off.

 

Thank you for coming forward with this.

 

As I said Scribe, most of the comments you are referring to are from neutral fans. Blaming this on PSU fans is falsly accusing. No pun intended here, just stating...

 

 

Oh, anonymous poster with 4 posts claims to be unbiased and then sides with you. Obviously this is the font of truth we have all been waiting for.

 

 

What does anonymity have to do with anything? As for being unbiased, read my 4 posts. If anything, I come off as a slight Dake homer, not the other way around. I have repeatedly stated that I think Dake is the better wrestler and have given my reasons for believing he will win again later in the year. How does that show any bias to Taylor?

 

Also, if you haven't noticed, I am from NY.

 

Finally, who gives a rat's ass how many posts someone has? The fact that I just started posting on here has no bearing on the validity of my comments. They stand for themselves, and if you don't agree with them, that's fine, but to call me a Taylor homer based on what I've written is to lack credibility yourself.

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scribe, I'm not a PSU fan, but I was the one who said Dake stalled his ass off.

 

Thank you for coming forward with this.

 

As I said Scribe, most of the comments you are referring to are from neutral fans. Blaming this on PSU fans is falsly accusing. No pun intended here, just stating...

 

 

Oh, anonymous poster with 4 posts claims to be unbiased and then sides with you. Obviously this is the font of truth we have all been waiting for.

 

Sides with me how?

 

He clearly made cases for both and stated that he was a fan of both. You questioning his integrity is on you. I have no reason to believe the dude is lying about not being a PSU fan.

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You can't really call a guy out for making $1000 bet afterward unless you took the other side beforehand. That's a pretty "hard ass" move in itself.

I think the $1,000 bet profer was that Dake wouldn't TF or pin Taylor, as it was a direct response to a poster who said Dake completely destroyed Taylor in freestyle and implied the same would occur in their All-Star match. Obviously, that's not how it turned out. Kudos to Dake for the win.

 

The match was paradoxical in that it was both boring and exciting at the same time. As sometimes happens when top guys wrestle, it was a conservative match without much in the way of action. However, it was suspenseful as it was low scornig and decided by the slightest of margins in OT. Kudos to Dake for a hard-fought win.

 

It will be interesting to see how Dake's senior year plays out. He has a chance to make history, but Taylor and Caldwell could be formidable obstacles. And there are few others that might be able to upset the apple cart, such as Yates, Evans, and Kokesh (if he doesn't bump up to 174) - not to mention the ever-present possibility of injury or illness. However, as of right now, Dake has to be considered the cream of the crop and the favorite to be the next 4x NCAA champ.

 

Personally, I find it hard to root against Dake or Taylor. They both represent the sport and their respective universities very well. JMHO though.

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I bleed Penn State Blue and White. I am also not a big fan of Dake's style. That said, he was and is the better wrestler unless and until DT can prove it on the mat. These two will likely meet two more times this year. Will be exciting. Like Dake, I was also not a big fan of Varner's style. All he has to show for it is an Olympic Gold Medal. Dake's "boring" style may very likely earn him four NCAA titles at four different weights, without a redshirt and having beaten (perhaps three times) a returning Hodge Trophy winner. If Dake pulls that off, and I say its a 70/30 chance he does, he will go down as one of the top five wrestlers of all time. In the conversation with Sanderson, Smith, Gable, Utake, Hodge, Bill Koll. What a legacy! And an Ivy League Degree too. The way he does it is not not pretty but it is sure impressive. Only reason I even give DT the 30% chance is that I actually think the loss will be "good" for Taylor in the long run. After you crush everybody all year long, go undefeated and win the Hodge, I imagine it might be hard to remain motivated (of course I can only imagine as I only managed a .500 career as a back up). Gotta think DT will be even more driven now and he is not a kid that I would bet against too often. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best. Taylor wants to be the best.

Dake is the best. I'll be routing for Taylor.

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He also looks huge at 165; I don't see how he makes 157 again.

I could see him making 157 simply because he's a proven big cutter, but I agree he looked huge. Isn't it funny that every time Dake steps on the mat, he looks big for the weight? It was true at 141, then 149 where he dwarfed Molinaro, then 157, and now he looks bigger than Taylor at 165. The only weight he's wrestled where he hasn't looked bigger than most opponents is 163 with day before weigh ins.

 

 

That being said, he didn't score an offensive point and won by the slimmest of margins. There was nothing here to validate all the trash talk by Gonzo, Scribe and others after the trials. Taylor is right there with a guy that many keep placing in the top 5 all time. Not too shabby.

Keep in mind most of the trash talk was hyperbole in response to people saying that the freestyle result meant nothing, and Taylor would comfortably win a folkstyle match. So this match was really a lot like statistics, in that they can be doctored to say whatever you want. Both sides can claim victory, because Taylor didn't get destroyed, but yet here was a folkstyle match, and Dake still won. Notable features of both matches to me are that if you can control Taylor in the ties so that he can't control the head and simply reach down and pick your ankle, his offense stagnates. If you look at the matches between Taylor/Howe and Taylor/Dake from freestyle, and simply ignore all the points scored, the simple message is that when Taylor can't control the ties and wrestle his style, his offense goes away. And in the All Star match against Dake, as boring and unconvincing a win as it might have been for Dake, Taylor's offense still failed to show up. So you're right that Taylor is "right there", but he still needs to come up with enough offense for the W.

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dsnc, good observation. Another one is that Taylor has a very hard time finishing against the cream of the crop, so the notion that he can push the pace and shoot more and therefore get in more and improve his chances of winning may or may not be accurate, but whether or not he can score is still a big question. Against Dake, throughout this summer, and against Bubba, he was not able to finish or come close. Against people like any of those guys, getting in is just half the battle.

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It puzzles me that more guys don't keep DT off of their head more. I really do think that there is a 2nd tier of guys 165 this year behind the top 3. All of them have noticeable weaknesses that the top 3 will expose and separate themselves from.

 

DT Opening up: Tough to open up if you can't break down lines of defense. Forcing it will only get you scored on.

 

Conversely: KD has the same issue because DT is a pretty good counter scorer as well.

 

Either's attack will have to be well set up and finished right away if a clean TD is to occur. Otherwise expect a scary scramble like the end of the 2nd.

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Were are they??? So they can tell us we were right when we said Dake is better right now. I got to laugh at them since they were on some "magic potion" to think that Dake would get killed in Folkstyle,

 

If you guys can come clean I wont throw it in your face any more:lol:

 

 

I met FT at the all star. I'm sure he'll be around. He's a nice fella for a PSU fan. I doubt he's running for cover. Probably just traveling back today?

I have also Met FT & Yes He is a Very Nice Fella, Poor Guy has Two Strikes against Him though {A Lawyer & a PSU Fan} that is some Burden to Carry ;)

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Thanks old fan. Between you as a Lehigh fan and Vais and Vak as Iowa Fans, I am bit taken back by the support. I suspect these boards would be a lot more civil if more of us met each other in person. Heck I had a good conversation with LiMaRty back at the ESU Open.

 

Anyway, back to jungle. DSNC, you assertions are ridiculous. People (Gonzo, Scribe, Jersey, ex.) hammered DT, said he was overrated, didn't deserve the hodge and that Dake would hammer him in folk. Furthermore, no one claimed DT would win big in folk so that is a complete fabrication. In the end, it is patently absurd to claim that the freestyle result was validated at the All Star match. Dake went from scoring 5 in the first and a fall in the second to eking out a ride out win in ot. GAME OVER on that debate.

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Now.... this All Star win doesn't validate the freestyle win.

2-0 vs David Taylor.

 

Poor Guy has Two Strikes against Him though {A Lawyer & a PSU Fan} that is some Burden to Carry icon_e_wink.gif

 

It's not a bad combination when you really think about it. :D

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Thank you for coming forward with this.

 

As I said Scribe, most of the comments you are referring to are from neutral fans. Blaming this on PSU fans is falsly accusing. No pun intended here, just stating...

 

 

Oh, anonymous poster with 4 posts claims to be unbiased and then sides with you. Obviously this is the font of truth we have all been waiting for.

 

What does anonymity have to do with anything? As for being unbiased, read my 4 posts. If anything, I come off as a slight Dake homer, not the other way around. I have repeatedly stated that I think Dake is the better wrestler and have given my reasons for believing he will win again later in the year. How does that show any bias to Taylor?

 

Also, if you haven't noticed, I am from NY.

 

Finally, who gives a rat's ass how many posts someone has? The fact that I just started posting on here has no bearing on the validity of my comments. They stand for themselves, and if you don't agree with them, that's fine, but to call me a Taylor homer based on what I've written is to lack credibility yourself.

 

 

@ wrestlingnerd ..... Well, Don't let it get to ya' ....

 

Because in a previous environment, this site, had a "Non Wrestling Topics" forum. It was a nasty, vile, toxic forum, where a bunch of the current posters lived. 24 X 7. Unfortunately, it carried over to the wrestling forums, and was eventually shut down. So in most cases, those 19K, 10K, 12K post numbers you see, had absolutely nothing to do with wrestling. just an FYI ... ;)

 

I seems to be a badge of honor for some folks.

 

Meanwhile back to the match .... Dake had a good strategy to slow down the pace, and won. DT needs to figure out how to work in that environment, cause it's going to become the new normal for guys who wrestle him.

 

It's gonna be an interesting rivalry to follow, that's for sure.

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One major thing everyone seems to be missing is that Taylor couldn't break down Dake. Taking away Taylor's scoring in top position is a HUGE part in how to beat Taylor. Now Taylor does deserve a ton of credit for being able to do the same thing against Dake. But Dake wasn't a big scorer on top so this doesn't favor Taylor as much.

 

For Taylor to beat Dake it looks like he will have to do it on his feet. If he opens up he opens himself up for the type of counters Dake flourishes with. The more I watch, the more I think Dake is a TERRIBLE match up nightmare for Taylor. I think the best available plan was what he took into the Classic. He tried to look busy while taking several half shots, making Dake look passive enough for stalling calls. If he can get that call he can win. Since Dake is content not pushing the action I see this as his best option. Dake is just so ridiculously hard to score on that Taylor has to be patient and hope to find an opening.

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Tiger-There are so many inaccuracies in that post I'm not going to bother addressing them. I will say I've been on these boards a long time and dsnc is a very knowledgable poster. He brings an unbiased view to the conversation (as well being very good poster on the international forum). You bring nothing but an often times ignorant PSU and Cael view. You ran your mouth louder than anyone else and again you're wrong. We all knew you'd start your b.s. eventually and you're right back to it. I'm out. Scribe, he's all your's. He's no better than Mopar.

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Thanks old fan. Between you as a Lehigh fan and Vais and Vak as Iowa Fans, I am bit taken back by the support. I suspect these boards would be a lot more civil if more of us met each other in person. Heck I had a good conversation with LiMaRty back at the ESU Open.

 

Anyway, back to jungle. DSNC, you assertions are ridiculous. People (Gonzo, Scribe, Jersey, ex.) hammered DT, said he was overrated, didn't deserve the hodge and that Dake would hammer him in folk. Furthermore, no one claimed DT would win big in folk so that is a complete fabrication. In the end, it is patently absurd to claim that the freestyle result was validated at the All Star match. Dake went from scoring 5 in the first and a fall in the second to eking out a ride out win in ot. GAME OVER on that debate.

FT Ur Right on Meeting Posters & Yes Martin isn't a Bag Guy either, Martin Likes to Get inside Peoples Heads & He does a Great Job of it on here :) I have spent Time with Marty @ Tournaments & U couldn't find a Better Fan {cant believe I am saying this} :lol: Very Knowledgeable & has A Burning Passion for NY Wrestling. {U can give me the $50 next time U see me Marty} ;) FT, We all know that the Only Match that Means anything between DT & Dake is the One in March. Dake could Beat DT 10 Time during the Season But if He Lost the One in March {if they meet}the Others Mean Nothing :| I am Glad Dake won this one to take some of the Steam out of that Stupid Train {Between DT & Quintin they Derailed the Damn thing :P

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Folks supporting Dake - best way to handle this is to rise above the fray. 2-0 record ... 1 in free, 1 in folk, is all you need. No need to trash talk anyone and call Taylor supporters out. Pulls you (and other Dake fans) down in the process.

 

Looked like Taylor escaped in the 2nd due to Dake being overly aggressive, could have put Taylor down a lot smarter.

 

I predicted Taylor to win, I was wrong. I frankly see the next match being a 2-0, 2-1 score.

 

Dake esc

Dake RT point

Taylor escape at the end of a period (maybe) but RT built up.

 

Boring -- yes a bit, but effective.

 

Dake's top strategy with Taylor - slowly allow the stand up. Pause, adjust grip, lift and bring back to mat. Repeat until period is over. There was a bit of a scramble out of bounds where Dake made motion to do a crab ride with a half in but to much was out of bounds to read much into it.

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DT is very good at converting that return to the mat into a reverse. He is most definitely the most difficult opponent Dake has ever ridden.

 

I see the scuffle being a much higher score match with Dake winning 11-8. DT will try to open it up when all of the chips are not on the table. And Dake goes with him when conditioning and adrenaline don't factor into January like they did on Nov 3rd.

 

If it goes as above, I see the finals being a low scoring bout, if DT can get past Caldwell in semis. ;)

 

Scribrodamus has spoken.

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It puzzles me that more guys don't keep DT off of their head more.

 

They simply don't have the skill, strength, mentality, or strategy to do so. That's kind of like saying why didn't guys keep Cael off their heads? Turns out there were guys that could do it, but they were winning medals at the World Championships, not wrestling in the NCAA. Likewise, most guys Taylor wrestles don't have that ability. His opponent in the NCAA finals last year was a one time 7th place finisher who Taylor put up 22 points on. We'll have to see what Caldwell can do, but right now, Dake, Taylor, and probably Caldwell are in a completely different echelon of guys at 165. Dake will probably have several close matches, because that is his style, but I think there's a good change Taylor will continue to put up 12+ points against anybody not named Dake or Caldwell.

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