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NJDan

Cox and also Dance

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Retherford and Coon got most of the hype amongst the true frosh this year-- and deservedly so based on their regular seasons. Cox got quite a bit, too, and he lived up fully. Joey dance got none, but wound up outplacing both Coon and Retherford.

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I still think Zain Retherford was the best pure true frosh in the country. Dance improved a lot as the season went along but he would never have been able to beat a wrestler the caliber of Stieber. Cox won a pedestrian 197 pound wt class. He would not have touched a Kilgore or a Wright. Retherford lost 3 matches--two to Stieber and one to Port. Stieber is on course to go down as one of the All Time greats. Port was a returning finalist. Let's not let NCAA finishes cloud the facts.

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I still think Zain Retherford was the best pure true frosh in the country. Dance improved a lot as the season went along but he would never have been able to beat a wrestler the caliber of Stieber. Cox won a pedestrian 197 pound wt class. He would not have touched a Kilgore or a Wright. Retherford lost 3 matches--two to Stieber and one to Port. Stieber is on course to go down as one of the All Time greats. Port was a returning finalist. Let's not let NCAA finishes cloud the facts.

 

Arent NCAA finishes the entire point? Are they not facts? You declaring that Retherford is the best true frosh is your opinion, not a fact. Now his loses are to two very good kids, however saying Cox could not compete with at a different weight class is also speculation. The only "facts" you mentioned were the NCAA finishes.

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silver - your definition of 'fact' differs from mine. NJDan discussed facts. You are bringing in subjective opinion. I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion. But it is just that. Your last statement made me chuckle. Should have been something like - don't let the facts influence your opinion. :lol:

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If you ask me which true frosh was the best pure wrestler, my answer is Retherford. If you ask me which true frosh finished highest at the NCAA tourney, my answer is Cox.

 

This.

 

Zain is the best freshman wrestler, but Cox got the better result because of pure physical strength. Cox was bigger and stronger even as a true freshman than almost everyone he wrestled.

 

While Cox is a very good wrestler, Zain is the better pure technical wrestler. Zain was nowhere near Logan Stieber in strength but he beat him once and wrestled him harder than anyone wrestled him all year, including Devin Carter. Zain's only other loss was in ride outs to Port and Port looked at least 10lbs. bigger than Zain. Something tell me that when Zain catches up in size and strength his technical skill will have him dominating guys.

 

Joey Dance finishing 3rd is great, and I expect big things from him. He had 10 losses though, which shows he isn't quite where Zain is just yet. Still a great young wrestler.

 

Coon is going to be a force as the Hwt weight class clears out. Probably needs to get a little bigger, which he obviously will.

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If you ask me which true frosh was the best pure wrestler, my answer is Retherford. If you ask me which true frosh finished highest at the NCAA tourney, my answer is Cox.

 

This.

 

Zain is the best freshman wrestler, but Cox got the better result because of pure physical strength. Cox was bigger and stronger even as a true freshman than almost everyone he wrestled.

 

While Cox is a very good wrestler, Zain is the better pure technical wrestler. Zain was nowhere near Logan Stieber in strength but he beat him once and wrestled him harder than anyone wrestled him all year, including Devin Carter. Zain's only other loss was in ride outs to Port and Port looked at least 10lbs. bigger than Zain. Something tell me that when Zain catches up in size and strength his technical skill will have him dominating guys.

 

Joey Dance finishing 3rd is great, and I expect big things from him. He had 10 losses though, which shows he isn't quite where Zain is just yet. Still a great young wrestler.

 

Coon is going to be a force as the Hwt weight class clears out. Probably needs to get a little bigger, which he obviously will.

 

I think you're underestimating Cox's wrestling skill. I definitely don't see Retherford as clearly being a better technical or tactical wrestler than Cox.

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Dance was under the radar all year. I was very impressed with his wrestling. He's very technical and his height causes problems for most others at 125. Kudos to him.

 

Zain has the uncanny ability to keep matches close...too many matches in my opinion. There is definitely room for improvement.

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Retherford and Coon got most of the hype amongst the true frosh this year-- and deservedly so based on their regular seasons. Cox got quite a bit, too, and he lived up fully. Joey dance got none, but wound up outplacing both Coon and Retherford.

 

How old is Joey Dance?

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I think Dance is your typical older "for their grade" wrestler, but only by 12-18 months. I don't think he wrestled any Iowa guys, but it doesn't matter. He finished 4th, and they didn't in the real tournament...not the hypothetical message board one. He's good. Don't knock him cause he performed when it counts, and the others didn't.

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If you ask me which true frosh was the best pure wrestler, my answer is Retherford. If you ask me which true frosh finished highest at the NCAA tourney, my answer is Cox.

 

This.

 

Zain is the best freshman wrestler, but Cox got the better result because of pure physical strength. Cox was bigger and stronger even as a true freshman than almost everyone he wrestled.

 

While Cox is a very good wrestler, Zain is the better pure technical wrestler. Zain was nowhere near Logan Stieber in strength but he beat him once and wrestled him harder than anyone wrestled him all year, including Devin Carter. Zain's only other loss was in ride outs to Port and Port looked at least 10lbs. bigger than Zain. Something tell me that when Zain catches up in size and strength his technical skill will have him dominating guys.

 

Joey Dance finishing 3rd is great, and I expect big things from him. He had 10 losses though, which shows he isn't quite where Zain is just yet. Still a great young wrestler.

 

Coon is going to be a force as the Hwt weight class clears out. Probably needs to get a little bigger, which he obviously will.

 

I think you're underestimating Cox's wrestling skill. I definitely don't see Retherford as clearly being a better technical or tactical wrestler than Cox.

 

 

Yes, Cox only won because he was stronger. LOL, if that's the case, college wrestling is in real trouble.

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Not sure off accurate ages but I think both Dance/ Jeske were about 18 months older then the rest of there class coming out of high school.

 

Someone posted (to lazy to look up) awhile ago about their age and either Tulsa, USA or Abu ages and when they wrestled when

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This just in: Zain wrestled Logan Stieber.

I repeat Zain wrestled logan stieber.

 

I do agree Zain was the better wrestler but placed lower.

 

Take nothing away from Cox... he was the best 197. But IMO the skill level of 41s is much deeper and better than 97s. Cox didnt have to wrestle a Logan Stieber like wrestler. Thats life.

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Did Dance wrestle Clark or Gilman from Iowa? Dance is tough but not sure if he could beat either of those two.
Dance lost to Nico and Dellgado. He beat Taylor, Patterson & Peters. Not really sure why he couldn't have beat either Iowa guy. He is a stud and had better high school credentials than either Iowa guy. Unfortunately he is one more serious obstacle for any Iowa 125lber for the next 3 years.

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I think Jaden Cox will be a 4x NCAA champ. What will you say about him then. He is a so physically and mentally mature.

I had said I don't think any wrestler will do what Dake did being a true freshman (not held back or redshirted) and winning 4 NCAA titles. Cox may be that guy. Kyle Snyder may have something to say about this though.

These two are going to dominate the 197 class for the next 4-5 years.

Dance turned 20 before he wrestled a college match. It's still great and tough to AA obviously no matter when it happens.

Retherford looked big to me. He was not an undersized 141lber. He was impressive this year. He is very good at what he does. Tough to score on and is so tough with the leg ride.

141 is going to be stacked next year. 7 of the 8 AA's are returning. Only Lazor graduates.

All 8 are returning at 125. It will interesting to see how many move up to 133.

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Lol it must hurt the Penn State faithful to see Retherford drop to the third most relevant true freshman position. He got 5th because that's how good he was, not because of how "deep" 141 was. I would go as far to say that 141 was one of the weakest weight classes for depth this year, behind only 165 and 149. Cox had a great year, and didn't win by brute force as some are trying to make it seem. Dance's season wasn't as strong, but he put it together when it counted - and yes, the 125 field was much tougher than 141. Oh, and Zain Retherford is incredibly boring to watch wrestle. That's all.

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