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LordNelson

How to beat Delgado

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Rumor has it, and I suspect it's quite probable, that he will RS. I'm certainly not privy to PSU's plans but it may make some sense. I really don't think he'll knock both of them off, but based on his near TD at the end of the third, he may have a better opportunity to beat Nashon.

 

I can somewhat understand the Lions fans enmity towards Delgado, but it really is a bit old. He has his style, and it's a winning formula...and it sure isn't boring. I only wish I had his skills back in the day...

 

BTW, Mark Perry and Jeremy Hunter might have a little bit to do with his success. :)

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When he posts on your head to try to keep you away, grab his wrist and pull him into a Russian tie (two on one). From there, jack him up and work trips (inside or outside) and foot sweeps. Don't even give him the opportunity to get to your legs.

 

I think attacking with your own legs is one of the most under-utilized skill sets in wrestling. Even when guys start to expect it from you, they generally react by keeping their hips back, which opens them up to a hard snap and go behind.

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1. Having watched Garrett win the handfights and tie-up battles when he needs to, I am confident that if Garrett ties up with Delgado, he will win.

2. Also, Delgado will not be able to stop Garrett's every shot. Even during the last match, Garrett hit a very powerful double that Delgado could not stop, but time had run out before it could be scored.

3. Finally, I believe Garrett can ride Delgado for an entire period but Delgado won't be able to ride Garrett.

4. So Delgado's real edge is the funk, which is not solid enough of an edge to win consistently.

These two are very close, and Garrett will get him eventually, even without significant adjustments.

 

1. Garrett isn't really a tie up wrestler, needs to get better in this area. He likes space like Delgado, Delgado is just better at this game at this point in time.

 

2. Except up to this point, he has stopped all of his shots. He is 3-0, all comfortable wins.

 

3. He might be able to. Garrett is good on top. I wouldn't count on it though.

 

4. Except again, it has won consistently. Usually winning two NCAA Championships indicates success in style.

 

I think adjustments/match plan need to change.

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Or you can buy Ben Askren's Funk DVD and learn the defense to the defense. If you want take it all the way you can learn the defense to the defense to the defense. Seriously it's as easy as getting that video and working the positions. Folkstyle wrestling has evolved. Clean shots just aren't enough against a kid who does what delgado does. This is one of the points Askren makes on his blog, you need to learn these positions in this day and age. It's not just "funk" it's technique.

 

Look at what Pendleton did to Askren. Clean shots can still work, it's just that there aren't many truly great takedown artists in college wrestling.

 

Askren and Delgado are two totally different kinds of funk.

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1. Having watched Garrett win the handfights and tie-up battles when he needs to, I am confident that if Garrett ties up with Delgado, he will win.

2. Also, Delgado will not be able to stop Garrett's every shot. Even during the last match, Garrett hit a very powerful double that Delgado could not stop, but time had run out before it could be scored.

3. Finally, I believe Garrett can ride Delgado for an entire period but Delgado won't be able to ride Garrett.

4. So Delgado's real edge is the funk, which is not solid enough of an edge to win consistently.

These two are very close, and Garrett will get him eventually, even without significant adjustments.

 

1. Garrett isn't really a tie up wrestler, needs to get better in this area. He likes space like Delgado, Delgado is just better at this game at this point in time.

 

2. Except up to this point, he has stopped all of his shots. He is 3-0, all comfortable wins.

 

3. He might be able to. Garrett is good on top. I wouldn't count on it though.

 

4. Except again, it has won consistently. Usually winning two NCAA Championships indicates success in style.

 

I think adjustments/match plan need to change.

 

Garrett can be a tie-up wrestler and is certainly more of one than Delgado. I have seen him control tie-ups against very good guys. i saw him throw Alan waters to his back, for example. He has also wrestled Megaludis very tough from tie-ups, some of which have reulted in a TD.

 

3 is a very small sample. He had a TD scored had there been one more second on the clock. Delgado landed flat on his ass unable to reach for the leg hat time. The fact that the clock ran out fractions of a second early doesn't take away from the fact that Delgado was unable to stop that shot. You conveniently forgot about that one.

 

I'm sure Koll will make adjustments but I don't believe they're necessary. I think they split the next few if nothing changes in terms of strategy.

 

You are of course entitled to your opinion too.

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It is easier than you think: if Garrett would have had the ref who did the Colon vs Graff match, Garrett would have had 2 TD's and 2 sets of near-fall and an insurmountable 8-2 lead in the first.

Sorry I could not help myself - seriously though I kept thinking to myself that there was no substantial difference between Colon's situation and Delgado's x2 (and I believe that neither should have been awarded any points).

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I say think backwards.

Thoughts??

 

what's happening.

1. delgado likes to fall to the side bend his waist and catch a knee or ankle.

2. garrett's shots are explosive and initially made delgado fall back to his butt.

3. as delgado was landing, he was bending to catch garrett's leg.

4. garrett, conventially, continued to drive forward bringing his leg closer to delgado's reaching hand.

 

think bacwards? nope, go backwards or at least stop.

 

what to do

1. same explosive shot, same grip in the same places.

2. hit the breaks and stop any forward momentum after contact.

3. garrett needs to go backwards with his grip tight and head up after delgado hits the mat.

4. delgado will not reach garrett's leg if garrett can stay parralel with a tight enough grip.

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I always forget about the the takedowns that didn't happen.

 

Such an intelligent comment, I should've expected as much. Of course, the point is that Delgado can be taken down by blast doubles. It's not as if they were out of bounds and Garrett shot in on him while Delgado was walking back to the mat. Garrett shot, Delgado tried his best to defend and couldn't. The fact that time was running out as the sequence transpired doesn't change a goddamn thing about the fact that the shot happened.

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I disagree.

The fact that time ran out and Delgado knew it influences his reaction to the shot.

You can't assume that he would've gotten the TD or that Delgado would react the same way.

 

You either score on him or you don't.

 

Except Delgado didn't know it. He only knew it after the video review, but at the time, he was full-on trying to defend but couldn't.

 

Granted, Delgado is quick, but he's not so quick that he was able to teleport himself to the scorer's table, peek at the official clock with hundredths of a second on it, then teleport himself back and decide that he didn't want to make an effort after all because, you know, Garrett would be 0.2167 seconds short of a TD, so why bother.

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what's happening.

1. delgado likes to fall to the side bend his waist and catch a knee or ankle.

2. garrett's shots are explosive and initially made delgado fall back to his butt.

3. as delgado was landing, he was bending to catch garrett's leg.

4. garrett, conventially, continued to drive forward bringing his leg closer to delgado's reaching hand.

 

think bacwards? nope, go backwards or at least stop.

 

what to do

1. same explosive shot, same grip in the same places.

2. hit the breaks and stop any forward momentum after contact.

3. garrett needs to go backwards with his grip tight and head up after delgado hits the mat.

4. delgado will not reach garrett's leg if garrett can stay parralel with a tight enough grip.

 

Makes some sense. I can see it working because Delgado doesn't do a traditional sprawl. Maybe twisting the double off??

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Except Delgado didn't know it. He only knew it after the video review, but at the time, he was full-on trying to defend but couldn't.

 

Granted, Delgado is quick, but he's not so quick that he was able to teleport himself to the scorer's table, peek at the official clock with hundredths of a second on it, thenteleport himself back and decide that he didn't want to make an effort after all because, you know, Garrett would be 0.2167 seconds short of a TD, so why bother.

 

If you think that any of the wrestlers on the mat last weekend aren't fully aware of the clock pretty much at all times then I wonder your knowledge of the sport in general.

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Except Delgado didn't know it. He only knew it after the video review, but at the time, he was full-on trying to defend but couldn't.

 

Granted, Delgado is quick, but he's not so quick that he was able to teleport himself to the scorer's table, peek at the official clock with hundredths of a second on it, then teleport himself back and decide that he didn't want to make an effort after all because, you know, Garrett would be 0.2167 seconds short of a TD, so why bother.

 

Like any good wrestler, Delgado was fully aware of the clock.

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He was aware that there was short time left, but he absolutely was NOT aware at the time Garrett shot and he defended (or unsuccessfully tried) that time had run out before he landed on his ass. That would have been literally impossible to know, which is why the timeout was needed to verify that literally hundredths of a second had or had not transpired before time ran out.

 

If you think that Delgado just decided that time was short so he wouldn't reaaally try, well, what else is there to say.

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As for variations to the double, if Garrett wants to try something different, he might want to look at how Logan stieber hits and finishes his doubles. It's unorthodox. He usually snakes an arm against the near leg, cups his hand against the foot or ankle of the opposite leg, and finishes the double to the "wrong" side, almost like a cutback motion. Very difficult to funk that.

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As for variations to the double, if Garrett wants to try something different, he might want to look at how Logan stieber hits and finishes his doubles. It's unorthodox. He usually snakes an arm against the near leg, cups his hand against the foot or ankle of the opposite leg, and finishes the double to the "wrong" side, almost like a cutback motion. Very difficult to funk that.

 

WN: you beat me to it. Stieber has a multitude of shots he uses and the one you're describing works great against funk. Stieber almost spins you down like a corkscrew.

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As for variations to the double, if Garrett wants to try something different, he might want to look at how Logan stieber hits and finishes his doubles. It's unorthodox. He usually snakes an arm against the near leg, cups his hand against the foot or ankle of the opposite leg, and finishes the double to the "wrong" side, almost like a cutback motion. Very difficult to funk that.

 

WN: you beat me to it. Stieber has a multitude of shots he uses and the one you're describing works great against funk. Stieber almost spins you down like a corkscrew.

 

It is lethal. By far my favorite TD of any from currently active college wrestlers. The only way to defend it is to not get hit by it.

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I haven't watched that much Delgado but like must counter wrestlers he seems adept at suckering his opponents into shooting when it us advantageous for him.

 

Traditionally there are two ways to beat funky defense. One is with patient technically perfect offense. Think of Pendleton vs Askren or (in Fs) Sajidov vs Adam Saitiev. The other is to hit with hard slick/powerful attacks that don't have room to be countered. Think of Dean beating Ruth or Slay trucking Saitiev or Burroughs vs anyone.

 

Either way you need technically excellent shots at the right time . Delgado seems to sucker people into "the leg is right there, I'll dive for it!"

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I've got no dog in this hunt, but am scratching my head trying to reason out why Garrett was robbed of two double legs to Delgado's hip/rear end? Especially since there is no reaction time to account for?

 

Felt like Garrett was jobbed. :?

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I've got no dog in this hunt, but am scratching my head trying to reason out why Garrett was robbed of two double legs to Delgado's hip/rear end? Especially since there is no reaction time to account for?

 

Felt like Garrett was jobbed. :?

 

I thought the replay from the first video review clearly showed that there was a moment in time when Garrett was in a position of control with Delgado not having the leg pass in place. But I am not a ref, so I'm not going to say definitively that it was a TD since there may be some room for interpretation in the "no reaction time" rule (is it literally no reaction time, or more like very, very little reaction time?). The announcers seemed to think it was a TD too, but what do they know. I'll chalk it up as a very close call that was ruled no TD, fair and square.

 

The second time, I do think it was undisputably a TD, but it happened literally hundredths of a second too late after the clock hit zero.

 

Delgado is certainly living dangerously if he thinks he is going to be able to defend Garrett's shots that way indefinitely... especially since, as I've noted in this thread, he was unable to defend one of those shots successfully in that very match.

 

At this point, only a truly biased observer would say Delgado is not ahead of Garrett, but I think the gap is really thin and likely to narrow given Garrett's rapid improvement over the past two years. We'll see next year how far the leg pass can take Delgado against Garrett.

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