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Northwestern: College Athletes Can Unionize

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Then consider the academic aspect: I'd assume somewhere in this CBA would be a requirement to also attend classes. This also seems arbitrary...why is it important if these employees learn about "communications" during their time as an employee of the school.

 

Lots of university jobs have the requirement to be a student. Grad students are the big one. But also a lot of maintenance jobs, groundskeepers assistants, food service, and so on. There's a long precedent for that.

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i still feel that as long as university's stick to their primary mission of educating their students this will all work itself out. i think the UNC phantom classes scandal is such a bigger deal, its an outrage that more people aren't outraged. all the spilled ink about labor laws and compensation when the much more important issue goes unremarked.

 

the other more important issue (to me) is that all the money schools take in from football and basketball need to be funneled into the schools. i think for the most part that happens and i dont care that coaches or media professionals make a living off the students. i care that football bowl organizers make 100K/year when they should be working as volunteers.

 

anyway, lot of different issues and its a long way to go before we start seeing the big changes that have been predicted. if nothing else, the next decade should be an interesting time for college sports.

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These guys are employees and their job title is 'student-athlete'. :) They are going to rake in overtime and get paid premium wage to study more. How many hours total does a football player put in for both school and sports? 60? A serious student at Northwestern --- 70? The university will have to hire work-study folks to make sure they are actually studying during their billable hours.

 

This will herald the end of non-revenue sports.

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The important thing here is mandating that any discussions moving forward include actual athletes in proportion. In other words, there are 1 or 2 revenue sports and at least a dozen non-revenue sports at any given university, so the committees should have more non-revenue sports representatives than football/basketball. Obviously football/basketball will have to agree to any solution, but the athletes themselves are extremely unlikely to do harm to the non-revenue sports - they have too much respect for each other. As long as athletes have a seat at the negotiating table, non-revenue sports will be fine. If athletes are excluded from the decision-making process, non-revenue sports are in trouble, I agree.

 

The "paper" classes at UNC are scandalous, to be sure. Therein lies part of the lie. These "student-athletes" are supposedly getting an education in exchange for their "athleteness", but really they are only getting a meaningless degree - if that. Certainly not a meaningful education. Poor athletic performance with outstanding academics will lose you your scholarship everytime. Poor academic performance with outstanding athletic performance will too (assuming poor = ineligible). No reason both aspects of "employment" will change under any compensation plan. They'll still have to stay eligible and perform well.

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Deadspin posted a pic of an A- paper by an athlete in one of UNC's "classes".

 

http://deadspin.com/this-unc-athletes-paper-is-a-joke-whos-to-blame-1552798110

 

reading it should make people sick to their stomachs. i find such behavior from universities far more deplorable than when EA uses player likenesses to sell video games.

 

Barry Petchesky, the deadspin author, loves to rail on the NCAA, but they are just the organization the universities hire to execute the rules under which all the schools agree to compete under. its the university presidents and admins who need to be held accountable. throw out the NCAA completely and some other acronym will just have to be invented to do the same job.

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This was brought up earlier in a post but has not been discussed; if they are employees won't they have to pay taxes on their scholarships? If they are compensated $58,000 a year in scholarship money won't they now have to pay taxes on that income? If it were up to me I would rather get a scholarship that is tax free, than receive an income in the amount of the scholarship that is taxed? Am I missing something?

 

 

Again, I'm not an expert, but I would say yes, it would be taxed. There may be exemptions since it is education. For instance, your employer is allowed to pay for you to go back to school and you don't report the education as income.

 

If it is taxable income, it would cost about $7500 to cover a $60,000 income. That is with no deductions, exemptions. If the player is compensated $20,000 a year he comes out about 8,000 ahead.

 

No, it would not be taxed. Waived tuition for employees of the university is not taxable income.

 

Tuition is never actually waived, but students are given grants or fellowships to cover it. For most students, this occurs behind the scenes and they never have to worry about it. Nevertheless, they do receive a university bill that lists tuition, but on that same bill is listed the financial aid that is paying for it. The federal government does not tax money that is considered a "qualified educational expense". There is a list of what constitutes "qualified". To use a real world example, many graduate students have their tuition paid for by the school, and then receive a stipend of 20-30k per year on top of that as a "salary". What the school provides to the IRS at the end of the year is the sum of all the money they paid the student, which could be 40k tuition + 30k stipend = 70k. But the 40k is listed as a "qualified expense" and is not subject to taxes. Importantly, however, the student is responsible for paying income tax on the 30k stipend they receive. Interestingly, depending on the source of the money the student is receiving, they may or may not receive a W2, and in most cases are not considered employees in the eyes of the government. The fact that graduate students can be paid without being considered employees saves the University a lot of money because if you are not an employee, they don't have to provide you with the same benefits. But even in cases where they do not receive a W2, the student is still responsible for paying income tax on their stipend.

 

So if NCAA players were paid, they wouldn't be earning hourly salaries but instead receiving stipends, and these stipends would be subject to taxes. This is a minor issue, however, because the system obviously works just fine for graduate students who receive money. But there is no way the athletes would be considered employees, and in fact the courts have already decided that. The harder issue to tackle here is who would get the stipends and how much. The fact that they are not considered employees wouldn't mean they couldn't be paid a stipend, but if the stipends were not the same across the board (especially to male and female athletes), this would create a giant uproar both within the athletic department and the university as a whole. It is definitely not something that Universities want to deal with. Also, the "profits" of a University stay within the University. Except in cases of corruption (which of course exists), the profits do not go to line the pockets of an owner, but instead are pumped back into the University to fund new projects, such as the multi-million dollar construction operations you see continually at major Universities. This is what non-profit means. There is still a profit, but it isn't distributed among employees the way it would be at a private corporation.

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the NFL and NBA have no minor leagues for players to develop like A, AA & AAA in MLB

 

well, actually they do - NCAA D1 college football & basketball

 

do the NFL & NBA pay for this player development? NO

 

is there money to be made? of course

 

who makes it? the NCAA & D1 colleges

 

who does not? the student/athletes

 

 

In October 2011, in an article for The Atlantic, “The Shame of College Sports,” Branch sparked a discussion that has been amplified by the recent scandals. “For all the outrage,” he wrote, “the real scandal is not that students are getting illegally paid or recruited, it’s that two of the noble principles on which the NCAA justifies its existence—‘amateurism’ and the ‘student-athlete’—are cynical hoaxes, legalistic confections propagated by the universities so they can exploit the skills and fame of young athletes…. The NCAA makes money, and enables universities and corporations to make money, from the unpaid labor of young athletes.”

 

Branch added that “slavery analogies should be used carefully. College athletes are not slaves. Yet to survey the scene—corporations and universities enriching themselves on the backs of uncompensated young men, whose status as ‘student-athletes’ deprives them of the right to due process guaranteed by the Constitution—is to catch an unmistakable whiff of the plantation.”

 

Taylor Branch is The Pulitzer Prize–winning author of a magisterial three-volume series on Martin Luther King Jr., Branch also has roots in the sports world, as the co-author of Bill Russell’s memoir, Second Wind.

 

above exerpt form this link:

 

http://www.thenation.com/article/173307 ... ploitation

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the NFL and NBA have no minor leagues for players to develop like A, AA & AAA in MLB

 

well, actually they do - NCAA D1 college football & basketball

 

do the NFL & NBA pay for this player development? NO

 

You are wrong. The NBA Development League is the official minor league funded by the NBA. http://www.nba.com/dleague/

 

Why are colleges getting penalized because they have become a proxy due to what you claim is a market shortfall? And if a minor league is so profitable, why hasn't the NFL developed their own league to make even more money? Why haven't they other professional football leagues thrived? They haven't succeeded because the value is not from the athletes but from the schools. People want to be a part of the school community, not watch these particular individuals play. If they were so valuable, they would be better off going to the AFL or another league and getting a nice contract for their services while they wait for the NFL.

 

As far as the health issues, there are always risks involved. They assume the long term risks just as high school kids do. They do it because they enjoy it. Are D3 athletes not employees despite being asked to commit the same as the BCS schools? I can tell you Mount Union operates their program similarly to Ohio State.

 

This whole thing is just crazy to me. Just because there is money changing hands doesn't mean anyone should feel entitled to it. Next I will hear that Little Leaguers playing in Williamsport deserve a cut of the contract with ESPN and ABC.

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who's paying the girls scouts their fair share for all the cookies they sell?

 

Pretty sure a large portion of the profits returns to the troop(some to the national). And I think some of the funds the individual girl sells goes into an account she can access for camp (etc) expenses. Just like when my HS wrestling booster club sells subs, the Wrestlers individual sales contribute to his camp expenses.

 

I believe the primary purpose of the NW lawsuit was to guarantee the medical expenses for latent injuries from football (destroyed brains) are covered later in light. Also I think they would like a little additional "laundry" money but hopefully not enough for all the players to drive corvettes.

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who's paying the girls scouts their fair share for all the cookies they sell?

 

Pretty sure a large portion of the profits returns to the troop(some to the national). And I think some of the funds the individual girl sells goes into an account she can access for camp (etc) expenses. Just like when my HS wrestling booster club sells subs, the Wrestlers individual sales contribute to his camp expenses.

 

I believe the primary purpose of the NW lawsuit was to guarantee the medical expenses for latent injuries from football (destroyed brains) are covered later in light. Also I think they would like a little additional "laundry" money but hopefully not enough for all the players to drive corvettes.

 

so the cookie bakers and shipping corporations get rich while the girls break there backs, peddling snacks, working day and night, and all they get out of the deal is a merit badge and some camping trips? there is a name for that kind of arrangement, its called a slave plantation.

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who's paying the girls scouts their fair share for all the cookies they sell?

 

Pretty sure a large portion of the profits returns to the troop(some to the national). And I think some of the funds the individual girl sells goes into an account she can access for camp (etc) expenses. Just like when my HS wrestling booster club sells subs, the Wrestlers individual sales contribute to his camp expenses.

 

I believe the primary purpose of the NW lawsuit was to guarantee the medical expenses for latent injuries from football (destroyed brains) are covered later in light. Also I think they would like a little additional "laundry" money but hopefully not enough for all the players to drive corvettes.

 

so the cookie bakers and shipping corporations get rich while the girls break there backs, peddling snacks, working day and night, and all they get out of the deal is a merit badge and some camping trips? there is a name for that kind of arrangement, its called a slave plantation.

 

 

 

 

Actually, the girl scouts themselves are nothing more then a middle man between the person producing the product (bakers) and the consumer. The girl scout could be cut out of the loop entirely. This is a different dynamic then football in which the players themselves are creating the product (entertainment) that the consumer is paying for.

 

Also, does anyone actually make money other then the girl scouts off the cookies? I'm not aware of troupe leaders making millions of dollars like college coaches but I could be wrong.

 

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/02/0 ... oney-go-2/

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Actually, the girl scouts themselves are nothing more then a middle man between the person producing the product (bakers) and the consumer. The girl scout could be cut out of the loop entirely. This is a different dynamic then football in which the players themselves are creating the product (entertainment) that the consumer is paying for.

 

Also, does anyone actually make money other then the girl scouts off the cookies? I'm not aware of troupe leaders making millions of dollars like college coaches but I could be wrong.

 

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/02/0 ... oney-go-2/

 

the way you dismiss the entire field of business development as mere middle men is both insulting and disappointing.

 

those girls are getting exploited by big cookie. plain and simple. end of story.

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those girls are getting exploited by big cookie. plain and simple. end of story.

 

Do you have a source for that or is it just something you made up?

 

yes, the source is my niece. i''ve watched her line big cookie's pockets for years with nothing to show for it except a few burnt marshmallows and a useless piece of fabric. and of course the public doesn't care, as long as the tagalog pipeline stays open they'll countenance any injustice.

 

disgusting.

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those girls are getting exploited by big cookie. plain and simple. end of story.

 

Do you have a source for that or is it just something you made up?

 

yes, the source is my niece. i''ve watched her line big cookie's pockets for years with nothing to show for it except a few burnt marshmallows and a useless piece of fabric. and of course the public doesn't care, as long as the tagalog pipeline stays open they'll countenance any injustice.

 

disgusting.

 

 

So you don't have a source.

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yes, the source is my niece. i''ve watched her line big cookie's pockets for years with nothing to show for it except a few burnt marshmallows and a useless piece of fabric. and of course the public doesn't care, as long as the tagalog pipeline stays open they'll countenance any injustice.

 

disgusting.

 

 

So you don't have a source.

 

wow, sounds like someone's been paid off by big cookie. how many cartons of thin mints do you have lining your fridge i wonder. wish i could say i'm surprised but thats the way this country is headed i'm afraid.

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wow, sounds like someone's been paid off by big cookie. how many cartons of thin mints do you have lining your fridge i wonder. wish i could say i'm surprised but thats the way this country is headed i'm afraid.

 

 

You obviously have read me wrong. I'm a peanut butter sandwich man.

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If this passes muster, how long before the band and baton twirlers unionize? They are a part of the show, are they not?

 

And what about high school football players? The high school marching band too?

 

Sports in high school are optional. You do not need to play a sport to attend. Your athletic performance has no real bearing on whether you graduate (though we know that isn't always the case).

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If these guys don't want to be amateur athletes anymore does this mean they want to be paid by the University instead of getting a free education?

 

Seems like it can only be one or the other. Either you are amateur student athlete with free education/housing/books/etc or you are a semi-professional representing a school getting paid as an employee.

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If this passes muster, how long before the band and baton twirlers unionize? They are a part of the show, are they not?

 

And what about high school football players? The high school marching band too?

 

Sports in high school are optional. You do not need to play a sport to attend. Your athletic performance has no real bearing on whether you graduate (though we know that isn't always the case).

 

Sports in college are optional as well.

 

Getting a FREE college education may be dependent on playing athletics for the school.

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If this passes muster, how long before the band and baton twirlers unionize? They are a part of the show, are they not?

 

And what about high school football players? The high school marching band too?

 

Sports in high school are optional. You do not need to play a sport to attend. Your athletic performance has no real bearing on whether you graduate (though we know that isn't always the case).

 

Sports in college are optional as well.

 

Getting a FREE college education may be dependent on playing athletics for the school.

 

Which is not the case in high school. A high school will not admit or deny on the basis of your athletic talent. Though again some do make exceptions in certain cases.

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[

Sports in high school are optional. You do not need to play a sport to attend. Your athletic performance has no real bearing on whether you graduate (though we know that isn't always the case).

 

Sports in college are optional as well.

 

Getting a FREE college education may be dependent on playing athletics for the school.

 

Which is not the case in high school. A high school will not admit or deny on the basis of your athletic talent. Though again some do make exceptions in certain cases.

 

With over 90 percent of students attending public schools (even higher percentage if you only count high schools) and most of the kids in both public and private schools falling under compulsory schooling laws, I think you're comparing apples and oranges...

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