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Flo Wrestler of the Year: David Taylor (link)

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Great article by Christian Pyles. The last paragraph is the best description I have read yet.

 

No, he’s not in the Cael, Dake, Smith conversation, but I’ll put his credentials and team impact with almost anyone else. It was more than just NCAA title accumulation, it’s the impact he had on an entire team, the way he carried himself and the impact he’s had on fans and young wrestlers alike. He’s a star for his style, dominance and personality more than his NCAA finishes. He carried himself with class every step of the way. When he won, he showed a youthful exuberance and renewed excitement every time. When he lost, he carried himself like a man. He’s an example and role model for young wrestlers. The popularity he’s gained he earned through a contagious and captivating style. Who knows what’s next for DT, but I think we know he’s going to continue to excel and excite.

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/article/258 ... zVicIWyp5Z

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Great article by Christian Pyles. The last paragraph is the best description I have read yet.

 

No, he’s not in the Cael, Dake, Smith conversation, but I’ll put his credentials and team impact with almost anyone else. It was more than just NCAA title accumulation, it’s the impact he had on an entire team, the way he carried himself and the impact he’s had on fans and young wrestlers alike. He’s a star for his style, dominance and personality more than his NCAA finishes. He carried himself with class every step of the way. When he won, he showed a youthful exuberance and renewed excitement every time. When he lost, he carried himself like a man. He’s an example and role model for young wrestlers. The popularity he’s gained he earned through a contagious and captivating style. Who knows what’s next for DT, but I think we know he’s going to continue to excel and excite.

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/article/258 ... zVicIWyp5Z

 

I would revise the first sentence of that last paragraph to say:

 

No, he’s not in the Cael, Dake, Smith conversation as far as individual titles, but I’ll put his team impact with anyone.

 

Who, if anyone, can say they had a greater team impact than Taylor -- especially given Taylor's bonus point production?

 

If "average team points per career match" were a statistic, my guess is Taylor would be #1, or possibly 2 behind Cael. And that is the stat I'd most look at if I were a coach in a hypothetical draft of the top college wrestlers of the past 20-30 years.

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Can there ever be a thread about Taylor without a breakout of why he should be revered above someone else?

 

It's the insecurity of his worshippers shining through. He was a great wrestler, but not in the conversation for best ever. Period. Not even the best of his generation.

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If "average team points per career match" were a statistic, my guess is Taylor would be #1, or possibly 2 behind Cael. And that is the stat I'd most look at if I were a coach in a hypothetical draft of the top college wrestlers of the past 20-30 years.

 

You nailed it, BAC. I think you'd be proven correct in an analysis like this. Taylor would be #1 or #2 in avg. points per match over his career, and this is what wins meets and tournaments.

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Can there ever be a thread about Taylor without a breakout of why he should be revered above someone else?

 

It's the insecurity of his worshippers shining through. He was a great wrestler, but not in the conversation for best ever. Period. Not even the best of his generation.

 

hey NJWC

 

by "worshippers" are you talking about the people who voted Taylor BIG wrestler of the year 3 times?

 

or those who voted him BIG OW this year?

 

or those who voted him OW at the 2012 & 2014 NCAA tourneys?

 

or those who bestowed Taylor with the Hodge Award?

 

or maybe Cael when he said that he would take David Taylor over anyone in the history of wrestling to build his team?

 

just wondering...

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Can there ever be a thread about Taylor without a breakout of why he should be revered above someone else?

 

It's the insecurity of his worshippers shining through. He was a great wrestler, but not in the conversation for best ever. Period. Not even the best of his generation.

 

hey NJWC

 

by "worshippers" are you talking about the people who voted Taylor BIG wrestler of the year 3 times?

 

or those who voted him BIG OW this year?

 

or those who voted him OW at the 2012 & 2014 NCAA tourneys?

 

or those who bestowed Taylor with the Hodge Award?

 

or maybe Cael when he said that he would take David Taylor over anyone in the history of wrestling to build his team?

 

just wondering...

 

He's probably talking about the David Taylor who lost to Kyle Dake 5 times (thusfar) and yet still ha people making cliams that he's secretly better than Dake.

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He's probably talking about the David Taylor who lost to Kyle Dake 5 times (thusfar) and yet still ha people making cliams that he's secretly better than Dake.

 

I haven't seen anyone say he's "better than Dake," one on one -- heck, that's easy. But if the question is how Taylor's career stacks up with other Div. I greats more generally -- that is a harder question, since Taylor's team point stats are off the charts, despite having "only" 2 titles. It really comes down to what criteria you value when weighing a career.

 

If you want to just count up titles, fine -- just make sure you're prepared to say Jake Rosholt had a better college career than John Smith and Brent Metcalf. And if you want to use head-to-head measures as a yardstick, fine, just make sure you're ready to say Darrion Caldwell had a better career than Metcalf.

 

Personally I think its reasonable to look a little deeper.

 

If this were a baseball forum, and we were arguing about who the "best hitter" is, there'd be guys saying we should look to who has the highest batting average and/or the highest on-base percentage. Yet there'd also be people saying no, you need to look not just at batting average, but also at how many home runs (read: pins) and extra base hits (read: techs/majors), since those extra bases (read: bonus points), contribute more to the team. So, these people would say to instead look at a statistic like slugging percentage. I'd even say that's the majority view, as most baseball fans would identify the likes of Barry Bonds and Babe Ruth as the best hitters overall, rather than a Rogers Hornsby or Tony Gwynn type guy.

 

In wrestling, Taylor's career slugging percentage blows away all but a few competitors. Cael is right there. Gable is probably up there too. A few others. But overall it does set Taylor apart.

 

Or I guess you can just count up NCAA titles and weigh a career that way, as though its the only variable that matters. Whatever floats your boat.

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I find it funny that so many non psu fans refuse to put Taylor in the best ever category. If he didn't get caught as a freshman, which getting caught has happened to a lot of guys that belong in the best ever conversation, I think anyone would agree he is one of the best ever. His losses to Dake were close and easily could have swung the other way. I am not saying he was a better wrestler than Dake, but he was obviously as close as anyone could be. If you say Dake is one of the best ever, then Taylor is too. If you argue Taylor is not in that category, then Dake should'nt be either. Dake has the four titles, but he has losses to lesser caliber opponents than Taylor and was not as dominant as far as bonus points go. Dake just had Taylor's number.

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I find it funny that so many non psu fans refuse to put Taylor in the best ever category. If he didn't get caught as a freshman, which getting caught has happened to a lot of guys that belong in the best ever conversation, I think anyone would agree he is one of the best ever. His losses to Dake were close and easily could have swung the other way. I am not saying he was a better wrestler than Dake, but he was obviously as close as anyone could be. If you say Dake is one of the best ever, then Taylor is too. If you argue Taylor is not in that category, then Dake should'nt be either. Dake has the four titles, but he has losses to lesser caliber opponents than Taylor and was not as dominant as far as bonus points go. Dake just had Taylor's number.

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I find it funny that so many non psu fans refuse to put Taylor in the best ever category. If he didn't get caught as a freshman, which getting caught has happened to a lot of guys that belong in the best ever conversation, I think anyone would agree he is one of the best ever. His losses to Dake were close and easily could have swung the other way. I am not saying he was a better wrestler than Dake, but he was obviously as close as anyone could be. If you say Dake is one of the best ever, then Taylor is too. If you argue Taylor is not in that category, then Dake should'nt be either. Dake has the four titles, but he has losses to lesser caliber opponents than Taylor and was not as dominant as far as bonus points go. Dake just had Taylor's number.

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Dake just had Taylor's number.

 

"Just"? Dake had everyone's number when it mattered. He's not in the best ever group "just" because he beat Taylor. Also, it's more than a little preposterous to claim that Taylor's defeats could have just as easily gone the other way. Maybe in your mind, but most reasonable folks would suggest that five times is decisive, no matter the margin. They were close, but close is what separates guys who are in the best ever category from those who are just below them.

 

When you're trying to select the handful of guys who are the best ever, you are forced to nitpick, and hardware and not getting caught matter. If you are going to include in the best ever category guys with two losses in the finals or otherwise got caught, as you put it, then the entire group of best ever balloons to over a dozen guys.

 

I think Taylor does belong in the best ever category if you want to expand the list to a dozen guys or so, but he is clearly a step below the very top four or five guys, and there is zero shame in that. He was a total stud, and we should just celebrate his very impressive career on its own without trying to constantly compare him to other guys or artificially put him in a place he didn't earn on the mat.

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The amount of energy spent putting down David Taylor over the past few years spent by a handful of Minnesota, Iowa and Cornell fans could fill Noah's Ark.

 

E=mc^2. I can't imagine the energy produced by converting the mass of just one elephant into energy, let alone the ark. Your statement is preposterous. :D

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I think the folks who seek to find a way to slight Taylor at every turn are sad and are more doing it to get at the Penn State fans. Wish it would stop. But sometimes, these folks are baited ....

 

I think the fans that constantly try to find some way to say how Taylor was better than X wrestler do a disservice to Taylor by trying to overstate things and thus draw criticism and those folks I mentioned above come out of the woodworks.

 

I thinks we can all say that Taylor is an exceptional wrestler who is very fun to watch and we all wish he was on our favorite team. Simply incredible.

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