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Broomstick

Steiber's chances at #4

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The question isn't whether or not Logan is the favorite, the question is whether or not he is the biggest favorite at any weight next year?

 

You have everyone except the 6th place finisher coming back. However, if you had to bet on any guy to be an NCAA champion next year, who would you take?

 

Delgado, Garrett or Nico at 125;

Schopp or anyone else at 133;

Logan at 141;

Tsirtis, Kindig, Houdashelt or Stieber at 149;

Ness, Green, Miller or Realbuto at 157;

Dieringer, Sulzer, Moreno or Jordan at 165;

Storley, Kokesh, Brown, Evans or Chance at 174;

Dean, Dechow or Thomas at 184;

Cox, Schiller, Gadsen, McIntosh or Snyder at 197; or,

Gwiz, Cox (?), McMullen, Telford or Coon at 285.

 

Honestly, I would rank them

Stieber, then Dean, then Cox (197), then ...

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....to avoid having to deal with Port and Stieber at NCAAs. If he redshirts, when he comes back the following year he is the favorite and has much better chance to be a 3x champ, along with the big points at NCAAs to help in the team race.

 

He had to deal with them this year. I don't know why Penn State wouldn't need his points next year.

 

you don't?

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Logan Stieber has the ability to take down any wrestler at any time. Look at Ramos this year...his entire strategy was not to give up the TD. It would never have worked against Stieber. Logan is the greatest competitor of his generation and will win #4.

 

Just my opinion.

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Logan Stieber has the ability to take down any wrestler at any time. Look at Ramos this year...his entire strategy was not to give up the TD. It would never have worked against Stieber. Logan is the greatest competitor of his generation and will win #4.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Let's not go too far. He wasn't able to takedown Retherford in OT of the first match. He wasn't able to takedown Graff to win their freestyle match last year either.

 

How are you defining "generation"?

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Stieber wrestles year round. He has not taken a break from wrestling in probably the last 12 years of his life. He has been in the top tier of Sr. Freestyle for the last 5 years. Within that time, anyone is going to get hurt or get sick. Yes, he might have not gotten a take down on Graff or Retherford in some matches that he was not 100%. But if you had both of those two with Stieber in 10 matches, Stieber would win 9 out of 10 if not 10 out of 10. He is simply better than both and in my opinion, by a long shot. I think what makes him the better overall wrestler than someone liek David Taylor is that he is never out of position, which translates well in freestyle. He is truly a special talent and I am looking forward to #4.

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Stieber wrestles year round. He has not taken a break from wrestling in probably the last 12 years of his life. He has been in the top tier of Sr. Freestyle for the last 5 years. Within that time, anyone is going to get hurt or get sick. Yes, he might have not gotten a take down on Graff or Retherford in some matches that he was not 100%. But if you had both of those two with Stieber in 10 matches, Stieber would win 9 out of 10 if not 10 out of 10. He is simply better than both and in my opinion, by a long shot. I think what makes him the better overall wrestler than someone liek David Taylor is that he is never out of position, which translates well in freestyle. He is truly a special talent and I am looking forward to #4.

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no disrespect to Zain (god knows i love the kid)

 

and it takes incredible amounts of talent, endurance, and heart to beat Stieber in any condition, but...

 

wrestling folks are sort of programmed for the 'no excuses' thing.

 

sometimes it is what it is. sometimes losses (or even anomalous performances in wins) ARE due to extenuating circumstances.

 

sometimes guys ARE hurt. sometimes guys ARE sick. sometimes guys haven't been able to train properly or have distractions.

 

Zain is amazing. But Stieber is World Class on the senior level right now.

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Stieber wrestles year round. He has not taken a break from wrestling in probably the last 12 years of his life. He has been in the top tier of Sr. Freestyle for the last 5 years. Within that time, anyone is going to get hurt or get sick. Yes, he might have not gotten a take down on Graff or Retherford in some matches that he was not 100%. But if you had both of those two with Stieber in 10 matches, Stieber would win 9 out of 10 if not 10 out of 10. He is simply better than both and in my opinion, by a long shot. I think what makes him the better overall wrestler than someone liek David Taylor is that he is never out of position, which translates well in freestyle. He is truly a special talent and I am looking forward to #4.

 

Jeff,

 

This is a joke right? Logan 10 out of 10 over Zain and Graff? You do realize he has lost to both already, right? Please tell me you missed the PSU dual meet this year.

 

Some people on here.....

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Makoma,

 

If 100 %, I would say yes, 10 out of 10. Did you also see where I said 9 out of 10? Do you disagree that he is better than both? If not, I think you are joking with yourself.

 

Some people...

 

What exactly was wrong with Stieber when he lost to Graff last year? Stieber never mentioned that he was less than 100% when he lost to Retherford either. At least that's not what I heard. Do you have a source where he mentions being less than 100% in either match?

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"Stieber never mentioned that he was less than 100% when he lost to Retherford either. At least that's not what I heard. Do you have a source where he mentions being less than 100% in either match"

 

I have no evidence of this, but my personal opinion is that Logan would consider "defensive" excuses coming out of his mouth as disrespectful to his opponent. You can decide that Logan's lack of comments about any physical problem means that there was no physical problem. Or you could consider it inconclusive.

 

On the other hand, coach's often have no qualms about defending their wrestlers, and to a fault. But Tom Ryan's comments could be considered inconclusive also.

 

It's interesting. Some could say "so what". But, as I've said before, the first Rutherford-Stieber match could retain a place as a highlighted footnote on both of their resumes, and will be subject to reminiscing.

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Logan Stieber has the ability to take down any wrestler at any time. Look at Ramos this year...his entire strategy was not to give up the TD. It would never have worked against Stieber. Logan is the greatest competitor of his generation and will win #4.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Let's not go too far. He wasn't able to takedown Retherford in OT of the first match. He wasn't able to takedown Graff to win their freestyle match last year either.

 

How are you defining "generation"?

 

It seems like you put all your stock in the first match, and completely ignore the next 2 matches they wrestled. You know, the matches where Logan completely dominated both matches with multiple takedowns.

 

Oh and yes Logan is the best wrestler of his generation. Whatever you choose as your definition of generation, he is the best of that.

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"Stieber never mentioned that he was less than 100% when he lost to Retherford either. At least that's not what I heard. Do you have a source where he mentions being less than 100% in either match"

 

I have no evidence of this, but my personal opinion is that Logan would consider "defensive" excuses coming out of his mouth as disrespectful to his opponent. You can decide that Logan's lack of comments about any physical problem means that there was no physical problem. Or you could consider it inconclusive.

 

On the other hand, coach's often have no qualms about defending their wrestlers, and to a fault. But Tom Ryan's comments could be considered inconclusive also.

 

It's interesting. Some could say "so what". But, as I've said before, the first Rutherford-Stieber match could retain a place as a highlighted footnote on both of their resumes, and will be subject to reminiscing.

 

LkwdSteve, I heard that Stieber denied there being anything wrong with him physically in his first match with Retherford. I think there is an interview somewhere where he discusses it. And I never heard a thing about the Graff match. Have you?

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"LkwdSteve, I heard that Stieber denied there being anything wrong with him physically in his first match with Retherford. I think there is an interview somewhere where he discusses it."

 

That interview is what I was referencing in the above post. Can you take that as proof positive that Logan had no physical problem? If memory serves he was sort of contradicted by Ryan. It's inconclusive to me. Others use, as evidence, the results of the Big Ten and NCAA championship matches that Logan wasn't 100 % in the first one. I think that's inconclusive also. Was Logan outwrestled by Retherford or simply not 100%?

 

Might be like Flight 370. Maybe we never know the real reason Logan crashed in that first match.

 

No clue on Graff.

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Retherford caught Logan off guard their first match and executed his strategy flawlessly. Logan was not prepared to face an A level opponent and he got beat--period. Adjustments were made, however, and Stieber won the next two without much drama.

 

With the exception of one forfeit, Logan Stieber won every single match last season by bonus--and most of those by pin or TF--with three exceptions. The opponent in all three of those matches....Zain Retherford.

 

I think Retherford was the best true frosh in the country for that reason alone.

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"LkwdSteve, I heard that Stieber denied there being anything wrong with him physically in his first match with Retherford. I think there is an interview somewhere where he discusses it."

 

That interview is what I was referencing in the above post. Can you take that as proof positive that Logan had no physical problem? If memory serves he was sort of contradicted by Ryan. It's inconclusive to me. Others use, as evidence, the results of the Big Ten and NCAA championship matches that Logan wasn't 100 % in the first one. I think that's inconclusive also. Was Logan outwrestled by Retherford or simply not 100%?

 

Might be like Flight 370. Maybe we never know the real reason Logan crashed in that first match.

 

No clue on Graff.

 

I see no reason to even consider that Stieber was less than 100%. I'm not entirely sure if Stieber has ever been 100% for any match, so how should I view his matches then? Is it not reasonable to assume that Stieber, at some point, has wrestled a collegiate match at 100%?

 

With all that said, it doesn't really matter to much to me. Stieber was well enough to win the match. If Stieber's technique and match strategy were a bit better, he could have beaten Retherford the first time like he did in their next two matches. Stieber's great, but that Retherford match causes me to view him in a different light now. He's not the wrestler I thought he was. I didn't think I'd favor an 18 year old true freshman Kyle Dake over him at this stage of his career.

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Superold: You state that you can't imagine Dake having lost to a true frosh at that point in his career and then claim it has caused you to view Stieber differently. Ok...that's your prerogative. But there's no logic in that argument. It's just your rationale for ranking wrestlers and it's not really based in fact.

 

The only way to compare Stieber and Dake would be to examine their overall careers at the same point. Stieber had a better high school career and has been more dominating in college. He also has accomplished more internationally. So does that make Stieber better? I don't think so. I think Dake is phenomenal. But so is Stieber. And Dake did win his titles without benefit of a redshirt.

 

It can be argued either way. Ultimately, it's fruitless.

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Superold: You state that you can't imagine Dake having lost to a true frosh at that point in his career and then claim it has caused you to view Stieber differently. Ok...that's your prerogative. But there's no logic in that argument. It's just your rationale for ranking wrestlers and it's not really based in fact.

 

I wasn't attempting to make an argument there silver-medal.

 

The only way to compare Stieber and Dake would be to examine their overall careers at the same point. Stieber had a better high school career and has been more dominating in college. He also has accomplished more internationally. So does that make Stieber better? I don't think so. I think Dake is phenomenal. But so is Stieber. And Dake did win his titles without benefit of a redshirt.

 

I disagree with the dominance thing silver medal.

 

It can be argued either way.

 

If we are talking ncaa careers, I disagree. More on that later.

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