wrestlingnerd 2,761 Report post Posted April 1, 2014 The sequence that was the difference in the match starts around 6:50: http://www.dartfish.tv/Presenter.aspx?C ... NzAAAAA%3d I get why it was 4 points for Novachkov, since he initiated the action and took Asgarov to his back. With the new rules, is there any situation in which Asgarov could also score while Novachkov is executing his double? In the old days, I saw this sequence being scored differently, with Asgarov getting credit for the chest lock and throw for exposure (2), although there was some subjectivity involved in scoring that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrestleSBA 4 Report post Posted April 1, 2014 If I am remembering the rule modifications from last year correctly, and they are still in play, then I believe the interpretation on a double was that if the offensive wrestler maintained his lock all the way through the chest wrap and roll from the defensive wrestler, then the only points awarded would be for the offensive wrestler. If the offensive wrestler broke his lock then the defensive wrestling could score the points from his counter throw. Obviously that isn't the exact situation here as Novachkov appears to have a single and not a double from what I can tell and the move was finished with Asgarov on his back in the protection area. Anyone know if my interpretation from the first paragraph is still the case under the current rules? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrestleSBA 4 Report post Posted April 1, 2014 If I am remembering the rule modifications from last year correctly, and they are still in play, then I believe the interpretation on a double was that if the offensive wrestler maintained his lock all the way through the chest wrap and roll from the defensive wrestler, then the only points awarded would be for the offensive wrestler. If the offensive wrestler broke his lock then the defensive wrestling could score the points from his counter throw. Obviously that isn't the exact situation here as Novachkov appears to have a single and not a double from what I can tell and the move was finished with Asgarov on his back in the protection area. Anyone know if my interpretation from the first paragraph is still the case under the current rules? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrestleSBA 4 Report post Posted April 1, 2014 If I am remembering the rule modifications from last year correctly, and they are still in play, then I believe the interpretation on a double was that if the offensive wrestler maintained his lock all the way through the chest wrap and roll from the defensive wrestler, then the only points awarded would be for the offensive wrestler. If the offensive wrestler broke his lock then the defensive wrestling could score the points from his counter throw. Obviously that isn't the exact situation here as Novachkov appears to have a single and not a double from what I can tell and the move was finished with Asgarov on his back in the protection area. Anyone know if my interpretation from the first paragraph is still the case under the current rules? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quick__single 18 Report post Posted April 1, 2014 I simply think they are trying to get away from the 3-2 (now 4-2) situation and reward only the offensive wrestler. I think the defensive guy has to stop him momentarily or change direction in order to score points. The defensive guy will no longer score on a momentum based attempt. I could be wrong but that's what I witnessed at the World Cup. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quick__single 18 Report post Posted April 1, 2014 I simply think they are trying to get away from the 3-2 (now 4-2) situation and reward only the offensive wrestler. I think the defensive guy has to stop him momentarily or change direction in order to score points. The defensive guy will no longer score on a momentum based attempt. I could be wrong but that's what I witnessed at the World Cup. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gutfirst 219 Report post Posted April 1, 2014 only 1 guy can score if the actions goes out of bounds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quanon 161 Report post Posted April 1, 2014 I simply think they are trying to get away from the 3-2 (now 4-2) situation and reward only the offensive wrestler. I think the defensive guy has to stop him momentarily or change direction in order to score points. The defensive guy will no longer score on a momentum based attempt. I could be wrong but that's what I witnessed at the World Cup. This makes sense. I know that the locking hands interpretation was discussed, but I'm not sure if it is the law of the land. Either way, if you maintain your lock throughout a shot, you're likely to get all of the points. In this particular case, the action landed out of bounds, so it would not continue, even if Novachkov were exposed afterward. In any case, I don't think Novachkov ever exposed, so the score was not controversial. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quanon 161 Report post Posted April 1, 2014 Later in the match, Novachkov scored two points off of a hand to hand exposure. Otherwise, everything else made sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GranbyTroll 441 Report post Posted April 2, 2014 only 1 guy can score if the actions goes out of bounds. Red hit his back out of bounds, 4 points blue. Red did not initiate an action in bounds and could not score any points for actions done out of bounds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sockobuw 49 Report post Posted April 2, 2014 the exact same action in the center of the mat would be scored? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GranbyTroll 441 Report post Posted April 2, 2014 4-2 for feet-to-back and exposure. However, I never understood how that takedown, exposure situation is "supposed" to be score. This is just my educated guess and what I would call if I had to ref Cadet freestyle at a local gym. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sockobuw 49 Report post Posted April 2, 2014 4-2 for feet-to-back and exposure. However, I never understood how that takedown, exposure situation is "supposed" to be score. This is just my educated guess and what I would call if I had to ref Cadet freestyle at a local gym. my thoughts as well. just looking for some confirmation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
armspin 257 Report post Posted April 2, 2014 depends... Wrestler A initiates leg attack, takes B to his back while maintaining control but while exposing own back: A gets 4-0 Wrestler A initiates leg attack, takes B to his back, but does not maintain full control and has own back exposed- 4-2 for A Wrestler A initiates leg attack, B stops his momentum and takes control throwing A to As back: 2-0 or 4-0 for B depending on altitude. Wrestler A initiates leg attack, scramble ensues, both guys backs are exposed without total control by one athlete- 2-2 And if either guy rolls flat across own back its 2 for the other guy, regardless of control... Yes, its really confusing and will be called differently with different refs. In the 61 kg final just know what I thought was a clear 4-2 was scored 2-2. FILA is trending towards awarding the first scenario more often (4-0), which I suppose is good because it rewards offense, but really I wish theyd just say that any double-exposure scramble is 2-2 and be done with it. (Tie break criteria to the guy taking the initial shot, I guess... or we could scrap criteria and make two good rule changes in one.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bman546 11 Report post Posted April 3, 2014 I don't think a wrestler must maintain his lock or grip on the legs to be awarded points. If the attacking wrestler loses his lock on the legs, but due to the interpretation of the ref he has maintained continuation of the move, he could still be awarded the points. If The defensive wrestler does a check lock and gets an exposure, but the attacking wrestler maintains his lock, even if he gets exposed, only the attacking wrestler is awarded points. As usual, there is a lot open to interpretation. As we saw during the match, the ref called 4 for Red, but the other tow officials scored it 4 for blue. BTW, all turns are now 2 points. There is no 1 point for hand to hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bman546 11 Report post Posted April 3, 2014 I don't think a wrestler must maintain his lock or grip on the legs to be awarded points. If the attacking wrestler loses his lock on the legs, but due to the interpretation of the ref he has maintained continuation of the move, he could still be awarded the points. If The defensive wrestler does a check lock and gets an exposure, but the attacking wrestler maintains his lock, even if he gets exposed, only the attacking wrestler is awarded points. As usual, there is a lot open to interpretation. As we saw during the match, the ref called 4 for Red, but the other tow officials scored it 4 for blue. BTW, all turns are now 2 points. There is no 1 point for hand to hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bman546 11 Report post Posted April 3, 2014 I don't think a wrestler must maintain his lock or grip on the legs to be awarded points. If the attacking wrestler loses his lock on the legs, but due to the interpretation of the ref he has maintained continuation of the move, he could still be awarded the points. If The defensive wrestler does a check lock and gets an exposure, but the attacking wrestler maintains his lock, even if he gets exposed, only the attacking wrestler is awarded points. As usual, there is a lot open to interpretation. As we saw during the match, the ref called 4 for Red, but the other tow officials scored it 4 for blue. BTW, all turns are now 2 points. There is no 1 point for hand to hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bman546 11 Report post Posted April 3, 2014 I don't think a wrestler must maintain his lock or grip on the legs to be awarded points. If the attacking wrestler loses his lock on the legs, but due to the interpretation of the ref he has maintained continuation of the move, he could still be awarded the points. If The defensive wrestler does a check lock and gets an exposure, but the attacking wrestler maintains his lock, even if he gets exposed, only the attacking wrestler is awarded points. As usual, there is a lot open to interpretation. As we saw during the match, the ref called 4 for Red, but the other tow officials scored it 4 for blue. BTW, all turns are now 2 points. There is no 1 point for hand to hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bman546 11 Report post Posted April 3, 2014 I don't think a wrestler must maintain his lock or grip on the legs to be awarded points. If the attacking wrestler loses his lock on the legs, but due to the interpretation of the ref he has maintained continuation of the move, he could still be awarded the points. If The defensive wrestler does a check lock and gets an exposure, but the attacking wrestler maintains his lock, even if he gets exposed, only the attacking wrestler is awarded points. As usual, there is a lot open to interpretation. As we saw during the match, the ref called 4 for Red, but the other tow officials scored it 4 for blue. BTW, all turns are now 2 points. There is no 1 point for hand to hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gimpeltf 1,631 Report post Posted April 3, 2014 Hey, Bman! Do you think a wrestler has to maintain his lock to score? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quanon 161 Report post Posted April 3, 2014 BTW, all turns are now 2 points. There is no 1 point for hand to hand. This would be news to me. Here's the rule from the rulebook: 1 point: - To the wrestler who blocks his opponent on one or two outstretched arms, his back facing the mat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quick__single 18 Report post Posted April 3, 2014 Not true. Hand to hand is still 1. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bman546 11 Report post Posted April 3, 2014 I don't think so. Maintaining the lock is only necessary to avoid giving up points in the counter move such as an opponents chest lock when finishing a double. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quanon 161 Report post Posted April 3, 2014 Posts are getting eaten by the forum monster. Hand to hand is 1 point. 1 point: - To the wrestler who blocks his opponent on one or two outstretched arms, his back facing the mat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GranbyTroll 441 Report post Posted April 3, 2014 Hey, Bman! Do you think a wrestler has to maintain his lock to score? Get out of here! Only I may troll this board!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
