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teach

What bothers me about D1

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My son has now wrestled at the D1 level for 4 years. He was an outstanding HS wrestler, was recruited, and is getting a great education before he goes on to grad school. He has also wrestled varsity all of his years and has over 70 wins. However, in the wrestling world he is not very good because he did not qualify for nationals. (Many people will stop reading because he is so bad). My point is, if he played another sport, FB, BB, baseball, hockey..... People would say wow he was a four time starter on a team that was top 25 in the nation division 1! Our hometown would probably brag him up and think it was great. I understand that when you choose to wrestle you understand that. What I don't understand is big wrestling fans, on here, and even when I am talking to people, feel you are nothing if not an AA. You can see that people think he is not good, even coaches. We need to start celebrating our sport with each other if we ever want others to.

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My son has now wrestled at the D1 level for 4 years. He was an outstanding HS wrestler, was recruited, and is getting a great education before he goes on to grad school. He has also wrestled varsity all of his years and has over 70 wins. However, in the wrestling world he is not very good because he did not qualify for nationals. (Many people will stop reading because he is so bad). My point is, if he played another sport, FB, BB, baseball, hockey..... People would say wow he was a four time starter on a team that was top 25 in the nation division 1! Our hometown would probably brag him up and think it was great. I understand that when you choose to wrestle you understand that. What I don't understand is big wrestling fans, on here, and even when I am talking to people, feel you are nothing if not an AA. You can see that people think he is not good, even coaches. We need to start celebrating our sport with each other if we ever want others to.

Are you kidding me man? There are people on this board you are nothing if you aren't an NCAA champion. Then people beyond that, you are nothing if you aren't a multiple time champion. Even those that don't consider you much worth of recognition unless your name is Cael Sanderson and you went undefeated.

 

We preach consistently how tough this sport is, and frankly it is. Then we turn around and only want to recognize the best of the absolute best?

 

I'm with you man, something is wrong here.

 

Your kid wrestled Division I, an accomplishment in its own right.

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A high school football player has a greater chance of making a professional football roster then a high school wrestler does of becoming a D1 All American. Wrestling and graduating as a college wrestler is an outstanding accomplishment. Wrestling a starting in D1 for 4-5 years is extremely difficult and rare comparatively speaking

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Teach's point about negativity is a good one. And Teach, if you think you are going to get a generally positive outlook on something here, you have come to the wrong place. This is a place where negativity rules. Of course there are many constructive posters but the overarching tone here is negative. That is just the way it is. As another example, many posters decry the loss of programs and threads will go on for pages. But when we post about a new program being started there is virtually not a peep. Maybe it is just the nature of these types of message boards. Your son is an elite person for accomplishing what he has. And he will get recognized for it in many ways throughout his life. Most wrestling people I know will hold him in high regard. Just not here.

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Teach's point about negativity is a good one. And Teach, if you think you are going to get a generally positive outlook on something here, you have come to the wrong place. This is a place where negativity rules. Of course there are many constructive posters but the overarching tone here is negative. That is just the way it is. As another example, many posters decry the loss of programs and threads will go on for pages. But when we post about a new program being started there is virtually not a peep. Maybe it is just the nature of these types of message boards. Your son is an elite person for accomplishing what he has. And he will get recognized for it in many ways throughout his life. Most wrestling people I know will hold him in high regard. Just not here.

That's probably because the programs we're losing that we are decrying are the programs at the top level of the sport (Division I) and the programs that we're gaining are at lower rungs in terms of visibility. I can assure you, there would be eight-zillion threads on the topic if Fresno State, Clemson, or Louisville started (or brought back) wrestling programs.

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It's got to be this message board. I mean, the initial threads each season start up with who's likely to win, who's likely to be invited to the all star. I don't think it's a slight, it's just the nature of the board.

Part of the reason I rank all of Division I, or at least as many as I have data for.

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As a club-level wrestler, I have the utmost respect for your son, along with the thousands of other NCAA wrestlers, all Divisions alike. I agree with you that these boards are very focused on solely the absolute elite upper echelon. To be honest, I think it takes more guts to step into that room every day, train year round and endure that grind and be an "average" division 1 wrestler and have to fight for recognition than it is to be a David Taylor, a Logan Stieber or a Cael Sanderson that will run through competition.

 

Your son's the kind of guy I want to be, if that is any consolation. I would kill to have any spot on a Division 1 team and still get a great education. Best of luck to him in grad school.

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It's an interesting anomaly. When I talk about how good my high school team was, I like to point out that we had starters on seven different college teams, most Division 1. But only one of them was a NQ, so no one seems impressed. I guess each person has his own perspective, but if you are a college starter, usually that means good things. At least I'm impressed.

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It is hard to impress wrestling fans, and I think that is a good thing.

 

The problem is not with wrestling fans, its with people in general. Those who work hard and find success will more than likely try to boost others up to find success as well. Those who know deep down that they arent giving all they have in life, arent taking the risks and lumps to get what they want, and havent found any real success of their own are going to tear down everyone else more often than not.

 

It is a human condition, not a message board phenomenon.

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First, you're son's a stud. Any educated wrestling fan recognizes this. Anyone that puts 4/5 years in at the D1 level is a special person and deserves all the credit in the world, no matter if he ever steps foot on the mat as a starter. As someone said above, I have a certain amount of more respect for those that battle every day and never even see the mat at all, you career "practice" guy if you will.

You make a good point though about college wrestlers not getting much respect from the general wrestling fans. I really think most fans do respect all college wrestlers but we often get "lost" in just discussing the highest performers and lose sight of "reality" at times. I mean this is a message board and most people just like to verbally attack and degrade other's opinions and view points.

As for recognition or respect from the general public, not sure that will ever be a reality as those that have never went through a high school wrestling season (let alone a college season) have no idea what it takes. You really can't respect/admire the accomplishment if you have no first hand knowledge of how difficult it is.

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I think there are 2 distinctly different aspects that need to be looked at.

 

1.) The fan that follows wrestling.

 

2.) The wrestler that follows wrestling.

 

The above 2 are most often a combination as most fans were wrestlers. The problem you have is with the fan. That problem is due to the nature of sports in general. If you then throw in that DI is designed SOLELY to recognize the NCAA tournament it is pretty much impossible to not see a bias from fans. I am as guilty as anyone.

 

The fan watches the sport and gravitates towards the best. They are often more entertaining and the storylines are more intriguing. You have to be a diehard fan and do a lot of research yourself to really follow the journeyman wrestlers. It is simply easier as a fan to follow the top teams and the top wrestlers. Remember MOST fans are LAZY. A fan may appreciate the sacrifice it takes but really mainly respond to successes. You simply don't want to see your team finish middle of the pack year in and year out(LET ALONE LAST).

 

As a wrestler the viewpoint can be, and often is VERY different. I have the UTMOST respect for your son. I know 1st hand what it takes to wrestle in a D1 room and just sticking with the team for your whole college career is amazing to me, especially if done as a walk-on. To be a 4 year starter is an accomplishment I hold in VERY high esteem. To be the best guy on your team at a weight for 4 years shows so much about your work ethic and dedication to both school and wrestling. There are SOOOO many obstacles to being a full-time DI wrestler that those who didn't do it would NEVER be able to understand.

 

You realize what your son accomplished. Your son's coaches and teammates realize what he accomplished. And MOST IMPORTANTLY your son realizes what he accomplished. Wrestling is most often a thankless sport. You do it for yourself and then the team. He is a better person because of what he has done and due to how thankless wrestling can often be I am sure he learned that he doesn't need ANYONE but himself to get the job done.

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We celebrate the heroes pretty well in wrestling, but we often don't recognize the workmen. Granted, if you win, you get the publicity, but there are some things we can do to improve the experience, recognition and promotion of wrestling.

 

1) Dual meets - wrestling is often treated almost exclusively as an individual sport, yet we are completely dependent on having a good partner to work with to be successful. Dual meets create a team atmosphere and bond individuals together.

 

2) Dual meets - our stars will always shine, but dual meets provide the opportunity for everyone to earn the extra point necessary to win the team victory.

 

3) Dual meets - tournaments are hard for a new parent, friend, fan, girlfriend, teacher or even the media to follow. We need consumable, accessible, well produced dual meets that create an atmosphere that puts our wrestlers in the spotlight.

 

All wrestlers walk away with a gift much, much bigger than any public recognition, but the public loses out on not knowing the stories of each wrestler's challenges and how they overcame them.

 

If we fix this, you won't be able to stop the growth of wrestling.

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I certainly can understand what the initial poster is saying. The truth is, people outside of the wrestling community will be more impressed that he was a D1 starter than those on these boards. Anybody who competes on the D1 level, in any sport, is a stud relative to his peers. Most sports fans will immediately get that. They can appreciate how talented a D1 athlete must be, because most who compete in sports never get a whiff of that level of success. I wouldn't worry about the folks on these boards. Most have never competed beyond HS.

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My son has now wrestled at the D1 level for 4 years. He was an outstanding HS wrestler, was recruited, and is getting a great education before he goes on to grad school. He has also wrestled varsity all of his years and has over 70 wins. However, in the wrestling world he is not very good because he did not qualify for nationals. (Many people will stop reading because he is so bad). My point is, if he played another sport, FB, BB, baseball, hockey..... People would say wow he was a four time starter on a team that was top 25 in the nation division 1! Our hometown would probably brag him up and think it was great. I understand that when you choose to wrestle you understand that. What I don't understand is big wrestling fans, on here, and even when I am talking to people, feel you are nothing if not an AA. You can see that people think he is not good, even coaches. We need to start celebrating our sport with each other if we ever want others to.

 

How exactly do you want us to celebrate your son Teach?

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Anyone who has wrestled at the D1 level knows how difficult it is to do what your son has done. We could make a message board a mile long about all of the great wrestlers in high school who were not able to accomplish what your son did. However, with the limited amount of exposure that is given to wrestling, it is easy to see why only the cream of the crop get recognized. While he may go unnoticed, no one who has wrestled at a high level will say that a 4 year starter is "not that good".

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My son has now wrestled at the D1 level for 4 years. He was an outstanding HS wrestler, was recruited, and is getting a great education before he goes on to grad school. He has also wrestled varsity all of his years and has over 70 wins. However, in the wrestling world he is not very good because he did not qualify for nationals. (Many people will stop reading because he is so bad). My point is, if he played another sport, FB, BB, baseball, hockey..... People would say wow he was a four time starter on a team that was top 25 in the nation division 1! Our hometown would probably brag him up and think it was great. I understand that when you choose to wrestle you understand that. What I don't understand is big wrestling fans, on here, and even when I am talking to people, feel you are nothing if not an AA. You can see that people think he is not good, even coaches. We need to start celebrating our sport with each other if we ever want others to.

 

Don't generalize, your son has nothing to be ashamed of and plenty to be proud of.

10 minutes in any wrestling room makes you tougher.

Finishing a college career at any level is impressive.

 

Others opinions of what is "good" and what isn't only matter in context.

I doubt your son wrestles for them but rather for his own goals, therefore he is the main judge.

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Thanks for all of the support, maybe that is what dad needed? Superold has a good point, what do I want? Nothing I guess, I just find it interesting that kids I know play D3 football and I hear people go WOW that kid is really good! But if I tell people my son wrestles D1 they will always say, well how has he done, or was he a national qualifier.... I don't think he gives a crap but Dad does?

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Teach, curious as to what state your from. My son also has wrestled for a DI program and was only a spot starter and wrestled behind some real tough kids. I think a lot of people do seem to respect and admire that he is competing for a DI program and I never hear anyone say, "Did he qualify for NCAA,etc". I am wondering if it is because I live in a wrestling state and maybe you don't? Otherwise, you must be talking to some ignorant people. I do agree, on these boards, if you are not a top level guy, they are disrespected but in the general population, I don't see that.

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Thanks for all of the support, maybe that is what dad needed? Superold has a good point, what do I want? Nothing I guess, I just find it interesting that kids I know play D3 football and I hear people go WOW that kid is really good! But if I tell people my son wrestles D1 they will always say, well how has he done, or was he a national qualifier.... I don't think he gives a crap but Dad does?

 

i think this is a good point. mentioning football and college will get the average person thinks about reggie bush and johnny manziel, no matter how close in reality one might be to those guys. mention wrestling and people are just clueless.

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I live in Wisconsin and we are a big d3 state. Our state colleges are all d3 in all sports and they do very well in many sports. So maybe people are just use to being national qualifiers and place winners at that level and really do not understand the difference between d3 and d1? Maybe?

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