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How much credit does Sanderson get for...

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Coaches can only control so much. Their success depends partly on things they have no control over -- how the kids perform, how the kids match up with other guys, how the kids develop, whether kids get injured, etc. Coaching honors generally shine a light on good coaches during lucky years.

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Coaches can only control so much. Their success depends partly on things they have no control over -- how the kids perform, how the kids match up with other guys, how the kids develop, whether kids get injured, etc. Coaching honors generally shine a light on good coaches during lucky years.

 

Like Gable??

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Coaches can only control so much. Their success depends partly on things they have no control over -- how the kids perform, how the kids match up with other guys, how the kids develop, whether kids get injured, etc. Coaching honors generally shine a light on good coaches during lucky years.

 

Like Gable??

 

Gable gets 100% credit but Cael 38%... duh.

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I've heard more than a few times that we should wait until Ruth and Taylor graduate before we can judge the quality of Cael's coaching. I believe that it was a few days ago when I read a comment from a wrestling fan that said that he could have coached Taylor and Ruth to ncaa titles if he had the opportunity. Has anyone else heard comments similar to these?

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I am not much of a Penn State fan but lets face it Sanderson gets the credit. It is an entire program that wins, the assistant coaches, the weight program, the diet of the kids, the communication and support from the parents, how they travel, how they peak, what they do in the off season, and on and on, but the bottom line is that the head coach is responsible for all of it. Everyone has a part, but the head coach takes the blame and should get the credit.

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He gets a ton of credit. When your superstars are performing up to their standard and unseeded wrestlers are earning an AA and you bring your academic advisor up for the team championship photo, you are doing things right as a coach. National championships aren't given out like candy and Cael has been the head coach of 4 in a row.

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Agree completely. Taylor and Ruth would not have won any titles if they had been at any another school.

 

And Penn State won so many NCAA titles before Cael right? Its pretty easy to win those things in PA so he isn't all that special.

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A wrestler's ability and work ethic (both things most would argue Taylor and Ruth had a lot of) at some point overtakes coaching. Cael played a major role in their development, but so did Taylor and Ruth. Both are key factors as to why they achieved what they did.

 

I firmly believe that If I were sitting in their corner(not career long coaching duties or even season long coaching duties, just one really important match) of the national finals I could have coached both Taylor and Ruth to victories, and I am not that great of a coach. This is not meant as a knock to the PSU coaching staff, I would say the same about Steiber for this years champions. Cael and staff helped lay the foundation for these two phenomenal athletes and they took it from there. Once the match starts, the coach is there more so for strategy purposes than anything. Taylor, Steiber and Ruth have given enough evidence that they don't require a strategy any longer as their ability is far superior to their opponents. As a result it minimizes the impact of a coach. Cael says it best when asked what it is like coaching Ruth and Taylor "I just try to stay out of their way." Of course he is being modest, but there is some validity in his statement as well since the work is already done and now it is all up to them.

 

Not meaning to deemphasize the impact of a coach, cuz they obviously are very important, but exceptional talent can supersede exceptional coaching at some point IMO.

 

I fully accept the wrath this post may receive. Some will view it as Cael bashing, but really it is just complimenting Taylor and Ruth. Two rare rare talents that were a pleasure to watch.

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When talking about wrestlers of the caliber of Taylor of Ruth I think you need to look at it from the perspective of whether they reached their potential under the head coach. There’s little doubt that both of them would have achieved success in most programs, but the question is whether they would have had better results under a different head coach.

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It had been rumored by many on the forums early in Taylor and Ruth's careers that Taylor was not strong enough and Ruth was too nonchalant to ever achieve what they eventually produced. Certainly Cael and his staff had a profound effect on the finished product! Would they have been national champs elsewhere???? Most certainly, though possibly not the dominate wrestlers they became!

 

Couple keeping these two focused and the flames burning with developing lower recruits such as Conaway, Beitz, English and Gingrich and managing a team hurt by injuries to both Altons and their number 1 heavy weight, Jimmy Lawson and I feel there was not a more deserving COTY candidate than Cael!

 

That said......Tim Flynn produced top flight results with a limited program.

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I would suggest that David Taylor would have had greater success if he attended Cornell under Rob Koll. Dake would have only been his teammate instead of his opponent then. Taylor may not have even lost to Jenkins cuz he would have not had the year in room against taylor or the chip on his shoulder via Cael dismissing Bubba. So Cornell may have been Taylor's best route for success. Sound like Taylor missed out on his opportunity to become a 4x undefeated champion by choosing Penn State. ;)

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A wrestler's ability and work ethic (both things most would argue Taylor and Ruth had a lot of) at some point overtakes coaching. Cael played a major role in their development, but so did Taylor and Ruth. Both are key factors as to why they achieved what they did.

 

I firmly believe that If I were sitting in their corner(not career long coaching duties or even season long coaching duties, just one really important match) of the national finals I could have coached both Taylor and Ruth to victories, and I am not that great of a coach. This is not meant as a knock to the PSU coaching staff, I would say the same about Steiber for this years champions. Cael and staff helped lay the foundation for these two phenomenal athletes and they took it from there. Once the match starts, the coach is there more so for strategy purposes than anything. Taylor, Steiber and Ruth have given enough evidence that they don't require a strategy any longer as their ability is far superior to their opponents. As a result it minimizes the impact of a coach. Cael says it best when asked what it is like coaching Ruth and Taylor "I just try to stay out of their way." Of course he is being modest, but there is some validity in his statement as well since the work is already done and now it is all up to them.

 

Not meaning to deemphasize the impact of a coach, cuz they obviously are very important, but exceptional talent can supersede exceptional coaching at some point IMO.

 

I fully accept the wrath this post may receive. Some will view it as Cael bashing, but really it is just complimenting Taylor and Ruth. Two rare rare talents that were a pleasure to watch.

 

How would you compare Cael's role in the development of Ruth and Taylor to Flynn's role in the development of Schopp and Port?

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Very similar. Both the coach and the athlete play a major role in the athlete's development.

 

Lets say on a scale from 1-20 in terms of ability that Taylor and Ruth started at a 15 and progressed into a 20, where as Schopp and Port started at an 11 and developed into a 16. So both coaches helped develop the individuals probably almost equal amount (something completely immeasurable but just for discussion sake), but Taylor and Ruth started college ahead of the curve so to speak so it is harder to see the progression.

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I don't think its fair to look at the issue in such a narrow way. Undoubtedly Taylor and Ruth would have had fantastic careers wherever they wrestled, but I think its pretty difficult to argue that they would have done BETTER anywhere else after losing a combined total of like 5 matches in their career at PSU.

 

When you look at the program as a whole its very clear that things are going the right way. There is a tremendous amount of support from the administration, for the most part the wrestlers are staying out of trouble off the mats (and the ones who aren't are getting the boot). The top recruits are performing better than anywhere else, and guys who weren't big recruits are stepping up and performing better than anyone would have thought they were capable of.

 

Under pretty much any metric you want to use its clear that Cael has done a fantastic job at PSU, and the result has been 4 straight titles

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I don't think its fair to look at the issue in such a narrow way. Undoubtedly Taylor and Ruth would have had fantastic careers wherever they wrestled, but I think its pretty difficult to argue that they would have done BETTER anywhere else after losing a combined total of like 5 matches in their career at PSU.

 

When you look at the program as a whole its very clear that things are going the right way. There is a tremendous amount of support from the administration, for the most part the wrestlers are staying out of trouble off the mats (and the ones who aren't are getting the boot). The top recruits are performing better than anywhere else, and guys who weren't big recruits are stepping up and performing better than anyone would have thought they were capable of.

 

Under pretty much any metric you want to use its clear that Cael has done a fantastic job at PSU, and the result has been 4 straight titles

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