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Burroughs/Dake/Taylor is just insane

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Is Taylor 0-9 vs. Dake/Burroughs? I thought he was 0-7.

I'm interested to know, Superold, as one of the few people on this forum to utilize logic effectively, what is your take on this match and DT's position amongst the top 74kgers in the US and the world?

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I have zero evidence besides Taylor's University Worlds wins(as significant as those are) and a pin vs Kurbanaliev to establish my argument for him being a potential threat to Burroughs and international scene overall. Taylor hasn't wrestled enough international competition for those arguments to be made(mostly due to the fact that Dake and Burroughs have roadblocked most of this efforts). But I think this match establishes Taylor's potential as a technical threat to international guys, mostly due to how he masterfully executed the gameplan set forth by his coaches. I think this match makes it obvious that a Burroughs Double-Leg will is one of the few(if not lone) ways David Taylor can be scored on. Considering only one guy in the world has a Burroughs Doube-Leg, it makes a good case for Taylor against.. well.. everyone else. Taylor has much work, but the jump from last year is monumental.

 

Taylor does have a 0-8 technical fall loss to Denis Tsargush. Tsargush is the only opponent outside of Burroughs that Taylor has wrestled who's still a world champion level wrestler.

 

Jordan Burroughs is undefeated against Tsargush in 2 matches. Kyle Dake also defeated Tsargush 11-5.

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Taylor does have a 0-8 technical fall loss to Denis Tsargush. Tsargush is the only opponent outside of Burroughs that Taylor has wrestled who's still a world champion level wrestler.

 

Jordan Burroughs is undefeated against Tsargush in 2 matches. Kyle Dake also defeated Tsargush 11-5.

 

I am aware. And I think DT has improved much since then. No way for me to support that other than what occurred tonight, but tonight speaks volumes of what David Taylor is capable of as a Freestyle wrestler. I believe that, given circumstances are relatively unobtrusive, a wrestler is only as good as his last match - and Jordan Burroughs ran through quality international competition for the last few weeks until hitting Taylor. Taylor isn't the first guy to game plan against Burroughs - I think this match makes a great case for Taylor.

I hate having to defend Taylor's losses to often, but they always indicate that he's at the cusp of something.

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Is Taylor 0-9 vs. Dake/Burroughs? I thought he was 0-7.

I'm interested to know, Superold, as one of the few people on this forum to utilize logic effectively, what is your take on this match and DT's position amongst the top 74kgers in the US and the world?

 

I think DT is the 3rd best 74kg in the U.S. right now.

 

DT almost pulled off the upset. He did some things well, but I'm not sure if he'll be able to do them again. I'm not ready to say that Burroughs and Taylor are extremely close right now; I need to see more from Taylor. Taylor did better than last time, but right now, I still think a Burroughs technical fall win next match is more likely than a DT win.

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If his approach to international competition is to not have a leg attack and have be defensive and score from back exposure he won't medal internationally if he ever makes a team.

 

Are you talking about Taylor? He scored of an ankle-pick in the first period.

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Wnerd said all three are capable of beating each other. I think this is correct. It is close. Some here seem to disagree, that is fine. What I find interesting about this is that to disagree you believe the odds of Taylor beating Dake are nearly 0 percent (if not exactly 0 percent. Same with Taylor beating Burroughs.

 

if someone is willing to give me 50 to 1 odds, I'd like to make a wager. Let's see who steps up to show their true conviction here.

 

The desire for some folks to try to minimize how well Taylor just did is not surprising given history of this board. It is a reflection of human nature I guess. Pick a side and then defend that side to the end via all sorts of rationalization, however one-sided and biased.

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I am sorry, but until you ACTUALLY win a match the fact that you are 0-9 is 100% RELEVANT. A close loss is STILL a loss. 9 close losses STILL adds up to A LOT of losses.

 

With that said, I DO believe Taylor can break through eventually but being 0-9 is a big deal for both the winning and losing wrestler's psyche. It is WRONG to simply try to dismiss the number.

 

Stop writing like this.

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I believe Taylor has the best training situation, with Cael in his corner and a stable of NCAA champ workout partners. Ruth, who has even more reach and height than JB's, will be instrumental in Taylor's improvement, as I'm sure he has been throughout college.

 

Taylor has been in the same situation for 5 years now....To me it is obvious that Burroughs is in the best training situation of the three given his extraordinary success against the rest of the world. People love to underestimate Manning and Snyder, but they have trained just as many olympic gold medalists as Cael.

 

How many World Medalist besides Burroughs, how many NCAA Trophies, how man NCAA Champions, AAs?? Comparing Manning to Sanderson is laughable. Didn't Nebraska just drastically underachieve this season. Get a grip Billy, your anti PSU posting is making you sound foolish.

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The hardest part for these guys is making the best 2 of 3. Taylor is very vulnerable to loss to someone and not make the final and as the past world champ Burroughs get to wait till the best 2 of 3. Taylor may have to beat Howe AND Dake then beat Burroughs 2 out of 3 and that goes for the others guys as well.

 

That really is a brutal gauntlet to have to run. Dake did it last year and didn't have enough left in OT in the second match against Burroughs despite taking him even closer to a loss than Taylor did tonight... and he almost didn't make it past Howe.

If Taylor or Dake did somehow end up beating Burroughs at WTT, they would then still need to place higher than him at a major international tournament.

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I'd consider myself "Taylor neutral". I respect the great career he's had (not a hater), but I also don't put him on the level that his worshippers put him on. There's an irrational hope that this guy will someday explode and be the best in the world, despite being 0-forever vs the best in the US at this weight.

Dake owns him, and now a close loss (yet another close loss) vs JB stamps him as what? Just good enough to compete with, but not beat the best.

He's as old (or older?) than Dake, and maybe a year or two younger than JB. Those guys will also improve.

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Burroughs showed he can bring it when needed. Taylor is still short of the top but gaining. With Burroughs in the way and Dake looming Taylor will have a tough time getting the top spot. I don't think he will make it.

 

His chances would improve if he went to work with John Smith for six months.

Ruth would benefit from working with John Smith as well - with both Smith and Cael collaborating to get him honed with a sharper offense and much cleaner setups.

 

Cael won Olympic Gold wrestling folkstyle against freestylers. Hard work but a lot of natural talent to work with. John Smith was perfection on the mat and his tutelage would help Taylor and Ruth both as he fine tuned what Cael has started.

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Yea, you're really Taylor neutral. DT is 3 years younger then Burroughs and 6 months younger then Dake but more importantly, he is the only one of the 3 that has yet to dedicate himself full time to freestyle. Considering this and the fact he just took JB to the brink, I think it's safe to say he has the most room for improvement of the three.

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I'd consider myself "Taylor neutral". I respect the great career he's had (not a hater), but I also don't put him on the level that his worshippers put him on. There's an irrational hope that this guy will someday explode and be the best in the world, despite being 0-forever vs the best in the US at this weight.

Dake owns him, and now a close loss (yet another close loss) vs JB stamps him as what? Just good enough to compete with, but not beat the best.

He's as old (or older?) than Dake, and maybe a year or two younger than JB. Those guys will also improve.

 

Yea, you're really Taylor neutral, lol. DT is 2.5 years younger then Burroughs and 2.5 months older then Dake but what's most important is that he is the only one of the 3 that has yet to dedicate himself full time to freestyle. Considering this and the fact he just took JB to the brink, I think it's safe to say he has the most room for improvement of the three.

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I am sorry, but until you ACTUALLY win a match the fact that you are 0-9 is 100% RELEVANT. A close loss is STILL a loss. 9 close losses STILL adds up to A LOT of losses.

 

With that said, I DO believe Taylor can break through eventually but being 0-9 is a big deal for both the winning and losing wrestler's psyche. It is WRONG to simply try to dismiss the number.

 

Stop writing like this.

LOL

My head is on tilt … like a dog when he hears elevator music.

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Burroughs showed he can bring it when needed. Taylor is still short of the top but gaining. With Burroughs in the way and Dake looming Taylor will have a tough time getting the top spot. I don't think he will make it.

 

His chances would improve if he went to work with John Smith for six months.

Ruth would benefit from working with John Smith as well - with both Smith and Cael collaborating to get him honed with a sharper offense and much cleaner setups.

 

Cael won Olympic Gold wrestling folkstyle against freestylers. Hard work but a lot of natural talent to work with. John Smith was perfection on the mat and his tutelage would help Taylor and Ruth both as he fine tuned what Cael has started.

 

Dake went from broken hand to broken foot. If he even shows up to WTT, Taylor, having just come off an NCAA season, will be prepared while Dake will not. If he is ever going to "make it", as you say, this might just be the time. Even one win might instill enough confidence in Taylor to up his game. I agree with the guys who say part of the gap between him and Dake/JR is mental.

 

As for Smith, he is my favorite US freestyler ever but Taylor uses such a different style that I'm not sure Cael isn't just as good a coach for him. Smith was best without tie-ups, while Taylor is best from tie-ups, like Cael. Smith could probably help a lot on the mat though. It's worth pointing out that Cael recently produced an Olympic gold medalist while Smith has yet to produce one in all his years of coaching. I'm not saying that makes Cael a better coach, but you're probably underestimating him as a coach for Taylor. After all, Cael did just prepare Taylor well enough to come one sprawl from the whistle away from doing the unthinkable.

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It is about low leg attacks. Ruth and Taylor looked amazing from Cael's coaching in this area. Cael even took a extremely defensive guy like Varner and turned even him into a pretty decent offensive wrestler. Varner wrestles like Dake-great defense with placed offensive burts-this is more like the foreign guys. I think right now it is better to be coached by Cael. I truly think Ruth, Taylor and Varner will make the team this year.

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I'd consider myself "Taylor neutral". I respect the great career he's had (not a hater), but I also don't put him on the level that his worshippers put him on. There's an irrational hope that this guy will someday explode and be the best in the world, despite being 0-forever vs the best in the US at this weight.

Dake owns him, and now a close loss (yet another close loss) vs JB stamps him as what? Just good enough to compete with, but not beat the best.

He's as old (or older?) than Dake, and maybe a year or two younger than JB. Those guys will also improve.

 

Yea, you're really Taylor neutral, lol. DT is 2.5 years younger then Burroughs and 2.5 months older then Dake but what's most important is that he is the only one of the 3 that has yet to dedicate himself full time to freestyle. Considering this and the fact he just took JB to the brink, I think it's safe to say he has the most room for improvement of the three.

 

A perfect example. Another loss for DT, and more rationalization about how it's a good thing, he's going to improve more than his competition, etc. Wishful thinking, right? Lol, you Taylorites ate too much. He's now 0 for how many vs JB and Dake?

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Yea, you're really Taylor neutral, lol. DT is 2.5 years younger then Burroughs and 2.5 months older then Dake but what's most important is that he is the only one of the 3 that has yet to dedicate himself full time to freestyle. Considering this and the fact he just took JB to the brink, I think it's safe to say he has the most room for improvement of the three.

 

Dake took JB "to the brink" as well at the trials last year. What Taylor did yesterday isn't much different than what Dake has already done. I don't think it's at all safe to say that Taylor has the most room for improvement.

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Dake took JB "to the brink" as well at the trials last year. What Taylor did yesterday isn't much different than what Dake has already done. I don't think it's at all safe to say that Taylor has the most room for improvement.

 

Actually, Dake literally had JB beat by FILA rules, but USA Wrestling invented OT just for that event. Dake's bigger move would'be given him criteria in a legit regulation FILA match.

 

But JB did tech him with ease in the first match of the best of 3 series...

 

Which goes to show that, as I originally posted, while JB is clearly the king, and there can be no question as to his superiority, it's insane to think that Taylor and Dake cannot beat him on any given day. Marable just beat JB! He is definitely beatable, as hard as it may be to do so. That was my point, and only that.

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