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Intermat Recruiting Rankings Released

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Not only is Sanderson the best recruiter but his timing(luck is a factor) has been unreal. As his needs at certain weights has developed over his years at PSU it seems the high end, can't miss recruits have been there, for the most part, at those weights.

 

125: Pataky graduates and Megaludis is right there and ready to step in.

133: Had a lull since Long and the jury is still out on Gulibon.

141: Alton and Retherford.

149: Molinaro was already there. Can Alton prove his value his senior year? Nolf?

157: Sanderson, Taylor, Alton, Nolf?

165: Kemerer, Taylor, Nickal? Hammond although ranked 70th is a tad low to be called can't miss.

174: Brown, Nickal?

184: Ruth was already here. How will McCutcheon do?

197: McIntosh

285: Lawson, Nevills

 

No arguing Sanderson has the eye for talent recruiting guys like Megaludis and Retherford who were AA ready as true freshman. McIntosh and A. Alton were also very competitive as true freshman.

 

Now that Molinaro, Wright, Ruth and Taylor are gone we will truly be able to gauge how well he develops talent. I make no argument against his developing the above. I do not doubt for a second he made them all better. I simply think it will be more obvious now to tangibly gauge the development of his current crop.

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I think Cael doesn't get enough credit for developing some of his guys. Just because a kid is highly ranked out of HS doesn't mean that they are ready to be one of the best in college from day one. If we rewind back a few years ago, how many had Megaludis being a finalist as a true freshman? I don't remember many who predicted that before the season started. Now that Megaludis has 3 AA finishes, it seems to me that many want to act like his true freshman year success was expected. They now treat his true freshman year success as something that "should've" happened due to his ranking coming out of HS.

 

Anyone agree/disagree?

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I think Cael doesn't get enough credit for developing some of his guys. Just because a kid is highly ranked out of HS doesn't mean that they are ready to be one of the best in college from day one. If we rewind back a few years ago, how many had Megaludis being a finalist as a true freshman? I don't remember many who predicted that before the season started. Now that Megaludis has 3 AA finishes, it seems to me that many want to act like his true freshman year success was expected. They now treat his true freshman year success as something that "should've" happened due to his ranking coming out of HS.

 

Anyone agree/disagree?

 

I am not sure if people expect things out of wrestlers because of what they should have done coming out of high school as freshman, but it is interesting to note that since Megaludis made the finals as a true freshman he has not "improved" (2nd and now a 3rd place finish). Alton's were top 10 recruits out of high school. Right now they have one AA finish between the pair (3rd place) and at best they finish on the stand 3/8 times. Matt Brown made the finals last year, failed to even make the third place match the next year.

 

I know I am a Hawk fan, but I give Cael credit more than most, but other than Taylor and Ruth, he hasn't had guys take the next step, and Taylor was already an amazing talent coming out of high school. If he could get Megaludis to finish on top this year (because if he redshirts he won't have to wrestle Delgado or Garrett - assuming Garrett is bumping like I have read), if Andrew finishes 4th or higher (maybe that is being too hard on him, but he should finish top four at least one as highly regarded as he was), Dylan getting back to 3rd place or higher, Brown winning a title. If some of these things happen you could make the case Cael is developing his talent. For now it looks like he is taking great talent and not really making them better. It's a slippery slope battle because you can't deny his four title he has had, but some of his guys aren't "improving".

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I think Cael doesn't get enough credit for developing some of his guys. Just because a kid is highly ranked out of HS doesn't mean that they are ready to be one of the best in college from day one. If we rewind back a few years ago, how many had Megaludis being a finalist as a true freshman? I don't remember many who predicted that before the season started. Now that Megaludis has 3 AA finishes, it seems to me that many want to act like his true freshman year success was expected. They now treat his true freshman year success as something that "should've" happened due to his ranking coming out of HS.

 

Anyone agree/disagree?

 

I can only think of, in the last 25 years or so, 2 true freshman where most pre season expectations called for finalist performances. Kolat and now Snyder. It is unfair to use Megaludis finishing as a finalist versus early expectations as your barometer for his development. Also, remember there was no one established at 125 other than McDonough and Sanders that would make his finishing high at the weight a surprise.

 

Megaludis was as accomplished and college ready as they realistically come. Most expected a high AA finish. Calling for more than that before the season starts just isn't realistic. I think he falls into the category of true freshman like Schlatter, McIlravy, Smith, Ware and more recently Cox and Retherford who you knew were going to be great, just no way to guarantee finalist type great.

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I think Cael doesn't get enough credit for developing some of his guys. Just because a kid is highly ranked out of HS doesn't mean that they are ready to be one of the best in college from day one. If we rewind back a few years ago, how many had Megaludis being a finalist as a true freshman? I don't remember many who predicted that before the season started. Now that Megaludis has 3 AA finishes, it seems to me that many want to act like his true freshman year success was expected. They now treat his true freshman year success as something that "should've" happened due to his ranking coming out of HS.

 

Anyone agree/disagree?

 

I can only think of, in the last 25 years or so, 2 true freshman where most pre season expectations called for finalist performances. Kolat and now Snyder. It is unfair to use Megaludis finishing as a finalist versus early expectations as your barometer for his development. Also, remember there was no one established at 125 other than McDonough and Sanders that would make his finishing high at the weight a surprise.

 

Megaludis was as accomplished and college ready as they realistically come. Most expected a high AA finish. Calling for more than that before the season starts just isn't realistic. I think he falls into the category of true freshman like Schlatter, McIlravy, Smith, Ware and more recently Cox and Retherford who you knew were going to be great, just no way to guarantee finalist type great.

 

I don't remember a lot picking Megaludis to finish high on the podium as a true freshman. Are you saying that most expected a high AA finish preseason?

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I absolutely thought Megaludis would finish as an AA preseason. Especially considering he was at 125. I think 125 is a bit easier for a true freshman to fit right into simply due to size and strength requirements. I

 

I also remember him getting nearly as much praise coming into college as Schlatter. You need to remember he only had 1 loss in 4 years wrestling in High School in PA. By his senior year he was far ahead of anyone else at his weight.

 

Megaludis was about as can't miss as they come.

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It is unfair to use Megaludis finishing as a finalist versus early expectations as your barometer for his development.
Also, remember there was no one established at 125 other than McDonough and Sanders that would make his finishing high at the weight a surprise.

 

What would be fair to use as a barmoter for his development? If I can't use a true freshman who made the finals of ncaas, I'm not sure what else I could use.

 

Don't forget that Mango was a returning AA from that bracket when Megaludis made the finals. McDonough, Mango, Sanders, 3 AAs. Also in the bracket were seeded wrestlers Alan Waters, Jarod Garnett, Bedelyon, and Frank Perelli. That weight class had talent.

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I am not going to go back and forth with you on this as you have proven you NEVER stop.

 

I will simply say that it is rare to almost non existent to pick a true freshman to make the finals pre season. There are too many factors to weigh. I will, however say very few people(preseason) would have been more than mildly surprised if you took them into the future and showed them that Megaludis made the finals. I will also say that very few to none would have been surprised if he took 3rd.

 

3 returning AA's is about as thin as a weight gets. Seeded wrestlers are always talented. This is DI we are talking about. I simply pointed out that 125 was sitting about as open as it could be for someone of Megaludis's caliber to step right into and perform.

 

Go back and look at Megaludis's accomplishments coming into PSU. He also showed from the start he had the right attitude. So before you use guy's like David Craig as examples remember Megaludish showed in interviews and off season work ethic that he had the heart, attitude and downright love for wrestling the other big name recruits admitted they lost.

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Megaludis was something like 170-1 coming out of HS in PA and his lone loss was as a freshman. He was also ranked #1 in the country at his weight coming out of HS with a known work ethic.

 

I never had him making the finals as a frosh but the podium....absolutely. His improvement throughout his freshman season was dramatic and it seemed it had a lot to do with him realizing how much harder he had to wrestle to beat the top guys. He was always a goer in HS but nowhere near how he goes now even when wrestling lesser kids.

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Mega was ranked somewhere between 5 and 8 most of his freshman year if I recall. He lost 2x each to Perelli and Sanders that year and had 7 total losses entering NCAA's. Anyone other than Nico and the PSU staff "expecting" him to make the final would have needed a crystal ball.

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I think Cael doesn't get enough credit for developing some of his guys. Just because a kid is highly ranked out of HS doesn't mean that they are ready to be one of the best in college from day one. If we rewind back a few years ago, how many had Megaludis being a finalist as a true freshman? I don't remember many who predicted that before the season started. Now that Megaludis has 3 AA finishes, it seems to me that many want to act like his true freshman year success was expected. They now treat his true freshman year success as something that "should've" happened due to his ranking coming out of HS.

 

Anyone agree/disagree?

 

I am not sure if people expect things out of wrestlers because of what they should have done coming out of high school as freshman, but it is interesting to note that since Megaludis made the finals as a true freshman he has not "improved" (2nd and now a 3rd place finish). Alton's were top 10 recruits out of high school. Right now they have one AA finish between the pair (3rd place) and at best they finish on the stand 3/8 times. Matt Brown made the finals last year, failed to even make the third place match the next year.

 

I know I am a Hawk fan, but I give Cael credit more than most, but other than Taylor and Ruth, he hasn't had guys take the next step, and Taylor was already an amazing talent coming out of high school. If he could get Megaludis to finish on top this year (because if he redshirts he won't have to wrestle Delgado or Garrett - assuming Garrett is bumping like I have read), if Andrew finishes 4th or higher (maybe that is being too hard on him, but he should finish top four at least one as highly regarded as he was), Dylan getting back to 3rd place or higher, Brown winning a title. If some of these things happen you could make the case Cael is developing his talent. For now it looks like he is taking great talent and not really making them better. It's a slippery slope battle because you can't deny his four title he has had, but some of his guys aren't "improving".

 

He seemed to light a pretty big a$$ fire under an underachieving Quentin Wright.

 

James English's results didn't come from nowhere, either.

 

That being said, managing and developing top tier talent can be much more difficult than cultivating middle-of-the-road prospects.

 

In any event, A's across the board from me for Cael's work at Penn State. They've had some fine coaches at State College, but it was about time someone really maximized the potential of that program.

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He seemed to light a pretty big a$$ fire under an underachieving Quentin Wright.

 

That's not the first time I've heard the assertion that Cael somehow turned Quentin Wright around. I have to disagree. Wright was a true freshman all-american at 174, placing 6th in 2009, before taking a redshirt the following season. He was hardly underachieving before Cael arrived.

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I think Cael doesn't get enough credit for developing some of his guys. Just because a kid is highly ranked out of HS doesn't mean that they are ready to be one of the best in college from day one. If we rewind back a few years ago, how many had Megaludis being a finalist as a true freshman? I don't remember many who predicted that before the season started. Now that Megaludis has 3 AA finishes, it seems to me that many want to act like his true freshman year success was expected. They now treat his true freshman year success as something that "should've" happened due to his ranking coming out of HS.

 

Anyone agree/disagree?

 

I am not sure if people expect things out of wrestlers because of what they should have done coming out of high school as freshman, but it is interesting to note that since Megaludis made the finals as a true freshman he has not "improved" (2nd and now a 3rd place finish). Alton's were top 10 recruits out of high school. Right now they have one AA finish between the pair (3rd place) and at best they finish on the stand 3/8 times. Matt Brown made the finals last year, failed to even make the third place match the next year.

 

I know I am a Hawk fan, but I give Cael credit more than most, but other than Taylor and Ruth, he hasn't had guys take the next step, and Taylor was already an amazing talent coming out of high school. If he could get Megaludis to finish on top this year (because if he redshirts he won't have to wrestle Delgado or Garrett - assuming Garrett is bumping like I have read), if Andrew finishes 4th or higher (maybe that is being too hard on him, but he should finish top four at least one as highly regarded as he was), Dylan getting back to 3rd place or higher, Brown winning a title. If some of these things happen you could make the case Cael is developing his talent. For now it looks like he is taking great talent and not really making them better. It's a slippery slope battle because you can't deny his four title he has had, but some of his guys aren't "improving".

 

He seemed to light a pretty big a$$ fire under an underachieving Quentin Wright.

 

James English's results didn't come from nowhere, either.

 

That being said, managing and developing top tier talent can be much more difficult than cultivating middle-of-the-road prospects.

 

In any event, A's across the board from me for Cael's work at Penn State. They've had some fine coaches at State College, but it was about time someone really maximized the potential of that program.

 

James English wasn't even a top 150 recruit. Matt Brown was #77 coming out of high school. Vollrath didn't finish higher then 4th in high school, yet defeated this year's 157 champ last season as he placed 2nd at the scuffle. It's always amusing how people desperately try not to give Cael Sanderson credit despite an enormous amount of success. Meanwhile, Tom Brands had two #1 classes in the lineup this past year and finished 4th, yet gets a free pass from guys like MSU and Hawktalk. Developing top talent is a skill, and Sanderson has proved to be the master.

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Tigs, stop lumping me into things. Find me any post where I give Brands a pass on development. In fact, if you used your brain(meaning looked something up) instead of your mouth(fingers in this case) you would see I started a topic soon after the tournament about whether Brands should be on the hot seat.

 

Just because I don't swing from the genitalia of Sanderson does not mean I have some bias or agenda. Being from MSU I have been forced to become as objective across the whole DI spectrum as most fans can be. Sanderson and PSU is currently the focal point of DI wrestling. Scrutiny is inevitable. Even with scrutiny I have yet to put Sanderson down. I just don't put him on the highest pedestal like you do.

 

Oh and superold, if you used Megaludis finally beating Sanders at the DI tourney as a barometer for improvement I could accept that. I just don't see it as fair to use no one picking him to be a finalist as a true freshman since there are too many variables keeping you reserved until you actually see him wrestle at the DI level. People expected him to be really good, you simply need a viewing sample prior to placing a stamp on it.

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James English wasn't even a top 150 recruit. Matt Brown was #77 coming out of high school. Vollrath didn't finish higher then 4th in high school, yet defeated this year's 157 champ last season as he placed 2nd at the scuffle. It's always amusing how people desperately try not to give Cael Sanderson credit despite an enormous amount of success. Meanwhile, Tom Brands had two #1 classes in the lineup this past year and finished 4th, yet gets a free pass from guys like MSU and Hawktalk. Developing top talent is a skill, and Sanderson has proved to be the master.

 

Maybe super coach Cael should have started him over top 10 recruit Alton, who failed to place, if he coached him up so good. Isn't the coach who makes the final call? Well except for 149, where a challenge occurred and the last guy that Sanderson wanted to come out of it on top did. English's AA was more of a stick it to Cael IMO, but Cael turned it into a feel good story by singing English's praises. Cael said himself he wrote him off, some eye for talent there. ;)

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Wright improved dramatically after Sanderson arrived. He had a nice NCAA tournament as a freshman, but he lost 13 matches that year. He had a freshman year very similar to Joey Dance's. Anybody have Dance down for a future three-time finalist and two-time champ?

 

 

He seemed to light a pretty big a$$ fire under an underachieving Quentin Wright.

 

That's not the first time I've heard the assertion that Cael somehow turned Quentin Wright around. I have to disagree. Wright was a true freshman all-american at 174, placing 6th in 2009, before taking a redshirt the following season. He was hardly underachieving before Cael arrived.

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Maybe super coach Cael should have started him over top 10 recruit Alton, who failed to place, if he coached him up so good. Isn't the coach who makes the final call? Well except for 149, where a challenge occurred and the last guy that Sanderson wanted to come out of it on top did. English's AA was more of a stick it to Cael IMO, but Cael turned it into a feel good story by singing English's praises. Cael said himself he wrote him off, some eye for talent there. ;)

 

So English making AA isn't a good example of coaching by Cael? And in what sense did Cael write English off? There is a sense in which he could have written English off and been correct.

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