Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
TBar1977

Intermat Recruiting Rankings Released

Recommended Posts

The item that stands out to me is Iowa ... 7th. In the past they always seemed to be 1st for years.

 

 

 

2014 Recruiting Class Rankings

 

1. Penn State

2. Oklahoma State

3. Cornell

4. Ohio State

5. Northwestern

6. Nebraska

7. Iowa

8. Illinois

9. Stanford

10. Michigan

11. Oklahoma

12. Minnesota

13. Iowa State

14. Virginia

15. North Carolina

16. Virginia Tech

17. Indiana

18. Bucknell

19. Lehigh

20. Maryland

21. Old Dominion

22. Utah Valley

23. Wisconsin

24. Central Michigan

25. North Carolina State

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The item that stands out to me is Iowa ... 7th. In the past they always seemed to be 1st for years.

 

 

 

2014 Recruiting Class Rankings

 

1. Penn State

2. Oklahoma State

3. Cornell

4. Ohio State

5. Northwestern

6. Nebraska

7. Iowa

8. Illinois

9. Stanford

10. Michigan

11. Oklahoma

12. Minnesota

13. Iowa State

14. Virginia

15. North Carolina

16. Virginia Tech

17. Indiana

18. Bucknell

19. Lehigh

20. Maryland

21. Old Dominion

22. Utah Valley

23. Wisconsin

24. Central Michigan

25. North Carolina State

------

 

While Iowa may have "always seemed to be first for years," that's not really the case.

 

Using Earl's D1 recruiting rankings, Iowa has ranked #1 only twice in the last 8 years - 2010 and 2012. In 2010, they ranked #1 with Evans (#4 overall) as the top recruit. In 2012, they ranked #1 with Skonieczny (#15 overall) as the top recruit. Given that Skonieczny then dropped out and never wrestled for Iowa, it's being charitable to call that a real #1 class.

 

PSU has actually had higher overall rankings than Iowa over the last 8 years. And if you look at top 10 recruits, all classes combined, Iowa has had only one top 10 guy in the past 5 years - Mike Evans. PSU has far exceeded Iowa, with 8 - Nolf, Nevills, Nickal, Retherford, Guilibon, McIntosh, Megaludis, A Alton (plus Marstellar and Haines briefly).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Skonieczny doesn't count despite enrolling at Iowa and training with the team but high schoolers Marsteller and Haines should be factored in for PSU, lol, come on rossel, you're going to have to do better then that.

 

PSU averages out better over 8 years, but what about 10, 9, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2…..all Iowa?

 

Why do you stop at top 10 recruits? Top 25 is still considered elite and Iowa had more. Just a different recruiting strategy that hasn't worked out as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe super coach Cael should have started him over top 10 recruit Alton, who failed to place, if he coached him up so good. Isn't the coach who makes the final call? Well except for 149, where a challenge occurred and the last guy that Sanderson wanted to come out of it on top did. English's AA was more of a stick it to Cael IMO, but Cael turned it into a feel good story by singing English's praises. Cael said himself he wrote him off, some eye for talent there. ;)

 

So English making AA isn't a good example of coaching by Cael? And in what sense did Cael write English off? There is a sense in which he could have written English off and been correct.

For the record I am being rather tongue and cheek in my whole argument, but why stop now!? English almost didn't even start, if not for him annoying Cael for a wrestle off so he had a shot at the spot he would not have been the guy at nationals. Did you watch any of his post NCAA videos? He talked a lot about how he wrote English off and didn't even know why he came back to school. In conclusion, English is the reason English won the spot and AA'd, not Cael(at least not the majority of the reason).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For the record I am being rather tongue and cheek in my whole argument, but why stop now!? English almost didn't even start, if not for him annoying Cael for a wrestle off so he had a shot at the spot he would not have been the guy at nationals. Did you watch any of his post NCAA videos? He talked a lot about how he wrote English off and didn't even know why he came back to school. In conclusion, English is the reason English won the spot and AA'd, not Cael(at least not the majority of the reason)

 

So this isn't a serious post?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For the record I am being rather tongue and cheek in my whole argument, but why stop now!? English almost didn't even start, if not for him annoying Cael for a wrestle off so he had a shot at the spot he would not have been the guy at nationals. Did you watch any of his post NCAA videos? He talked a lot about how he wrote English off and didn't even know why he came back to school. In conclusion, English is the reason English won the spot and AA'd, not Cael(at least not the majority of the reason)

 

So this isn't a serious post?

It is about 57% serious.

 

I think overall people try too hard to make Cael into this ICONIC coach so early into his career. He has had phenomenal results to this point, but let him write his own story he doesn't need others to write it for him. I like to bust chops a little bit with this crowd, so I will take something with a little substance and try to make it bigger than it is. So essentially the same as what the Cael bandwagon does. Except I use "unfavorable results" to show why he may not be an iconic coach yet and they use "favorable results" to show why of course he is. You can manipulate stats to say whatever you want, depending on what your agenda is.

 

Cael also has way too many people try to make him into a HORRIBLE coach, which is not true nor subjective. I often wonder if some of the people in this group truly believe what they write or if they are just trying to get a rise out of people.

 

Cael is a good coach, recruited phenomenal, has developed wrestlers well, has failed to develop wrestlers well, has had wrestlers overachieve, has had wrestlers underachieve, has won, has lost. Cael is among the top coaches in NCAA wrestling and when he is done he may have a resume that puts him in the discussion for the greatest coach ever. The edge that Cael has over most of the other coaches is name recognition which helps tremendously with recruiting. He has also had a lot of recent success which has helped tremendously with recruiting. Those 3 areas of coaching (name recognition, recent success, and recruiting) Cael is currently the best in the country at doing. The other areas of coaching he is still among the best, but is included in a decent sized pool of coaches. There are a lot of really good coaches in college(some aren't even head coaches) and Cael is certainly one of them! Like I said, let Cael write his story as he is doing a pretty good job at it so far!

 

PS- Cael unblock me on twitter!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PS- Cael unblock me on twitter!

 

Not after you had the nerve to ask "does this mean wrestling fans can count on @pennstateWREST showing up to the national duals?" You forgot to drink your Kool-aid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PS- Cael unblock me on twitter!

 

Not after you had the nerve to ask "does this mean wrestling fans can count on @pennstateWREST showing up to the national duals?" You forgot to drink your Kool-aid.

I know! Talk about such an outlandish remark! (For the record, that is the real tweet that got me the Cael Sanderson Axe on twitter) I know in the future to refrain from such childish comments!

 

If anything, I should have blocked him(just pretend for a second that he was following me on twitter) after he called me a nerd! #caeliscyberbully

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Iowa's recruiting class was ranked higher than Penn State's on the D1 site in five of the past six years, including the year when the Penn State class included Ruth and Taylor.

 

The item that stands out to me is Iowa ... 7th. In the past they always seemed to be 1st for years.

 

 

 

2014 Recruiting Class Rankings

 

1. Penn State

2. Oklahoma State

3. Cornell

4. Ohio State

5. Northwestern

6. Nebraska

7. Iowa

8. Illinois

9. Stanford

10. Michigan

11. Oklahoma

12. Minnesota

13. Iowa State

14. Virginia

15. North Carolina

16. Virginia Tech

17. Indiana

18. Bucknell

19. Lehigh

20. Maryland

21. Old Dominion

22. Utah Valley

23. Wisconsin

24. Central Michigan

25. North Carolina State

------

 

While Iowa may have "always seemed to be first for years," that's not really the case.

 

Using Earl's D1 recruiting rankings, Iowa has ranked #1 only twice in the last 8 years - 2010 and 2012. In 2010, they ranked #1 with Evans (#4 overall) as the top recruit. In 2012, they ranked #1 with Skonieczny (#15 overall) as the top recruit. Given that Skonieczny then dropped out and never wrestled for Iowa, it's being charitable to call that a real #1 class.

 

PSU has actually had higher overall rankings than Iowa over the last 8 years. And if you look at top 10 recruits, all classes combined, Iowa has had only one top 10 guy in the past 5 years - Mike Evans. PSU has far exceeded Iowa, with 8 - Nolf, Nevills, Nickal, Retherford, Guilibon, McIntosh, Megaludis, A Alton (plus Marstellar and Haines briefly).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So Skonieczny doesn't count despite enrolling at Iowa and training with the team but high schoolers Marsteller and Haines should be factored in for PSU, lol, come on rossel, you're going to have to do better then that.

 

PSU averages out better over 8 years, but what about 10, 9, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2…..all Iowa?

 

Why do you stop at top 10 recruits? Top 25 is still considered elite and Iowa had more. Just a different recruiting strategy that hasn't world out as well.

------

 

FT, actually you have it backwards.

 

Skon was counted for Iowa's #1 team recruiting ranking and that gave Iowa a #1 ranking for 2012. I just pointed out that he dropped out, never having wrestled a match, making that #1 ranking a rather hallow success. Without Skon (Iowa's top recruit that year), Iowa would not have finished #1.

 

And I did not count Marstellar or Haines for PSU's recruiting rankings, I merely pointed out that they originally signed with PSU (both apparently backed out after Cael pulled in what he thought were even better top 10 guys). 8 top ten (all wt class) guys for PSU in 5 years did not include them.

 

It amazes me that a few PSU fans seem just incapable of acknowleging that Cael has been pulling in the most highly ranked HS kids over the past 5 years. If you want to include top 25 or 50 HS recruits, Iowa catches up, but when talking about the bluest of blue chip recruits - top 5 , top 10 or top 15 all class, PSU is smoking Iowa and most everyone else (I think Northwestern had one stellar year).

 

None of this states that Cael isn't a good coach or that he doesn't develop talent. And a top 10 HS all class recruit is not a guaranteed success. But it is still a fact... Cael is starting with a ton of extremely elite HS talent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cael has assembled the greatest recruiting in the history of the sport; According to D1CW Penn State has gotten nine overall top 5 recruits in the last five years with #1's Taylor & McIntosh, #2 A Alton, #3's Mega, Gulibon,& Retherford, #4 Nolf, and #5's Ruth & Nevils. Most teams rarely land top five recruits. Minny has just a handful in their entire history.

 

So the next five years are the measuring stick for Sanderson. Will the incredible recruiting classes he's assembled be enough now that Taylor/Ruth aren't around to win the team titles? When Brands had his double class some Iowa fans were calling him the greatest coach in wrestling. But now grumblings are heard.

I expect Sanderson to remain competitive, but will that be enough when Penn State fans have become used to life at the top?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And I did not count Marstellar or Haines for PSU's recruiting rankings, I merely pointed out that they originally signed with PSU (both apparently backed out after Cael pulled in what he thought were even better top 10 guys).

 

I must have missed something there - is that the reason Marstellar pulled out?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The weirdest thing to me is how some are so dedicated to clinging to the idea that Cael isn't a great or even good coach. I can't tell why some are determined to hold to this idea. Is it jealousy of his success or just simple hatred of a rival team?

 

I can't rule out jealousy because there are a lot of people in Iowa and Minnesota that can't really think straight when it comes to Cael and Penn State. ISU fans are mad he left because they wanted him to win there. Iowa fans are mad because he was safely at the second school in Iowa and unlikely to be as much of a threat as he is now at the top wrestling school in the top high school wrestling state. Minnesota fans are mad because he keeps beating them in March.

 

Does it make some fans feel better to say that he's only winning because he has top level recruits and that their team would be winning if it were not for all those pesky top recruits going to Penn State?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The weirdest thing to me is how some are so dedicated to clinging to the idea that Cael isn't a great or even good coach. I can't tell why some are determined to hold to this idea. Is it jealousy of his success or just simple hatred of a rival team?

 

I can't rule out jealousy because there are a lot of people in Iowa and Minnesota that can't really think straight when it comes to Cael and Penn State. ISU fans are mad he left because they wanted him to win there. Iowa fans are mad because he was safely at the second school in Iowa and unlikely to be as much of a threat as he is now at the top wrestling school in the top high school wrestling state. Minnesota fans are mad because he keeps beating them in March.

 

Does it make some fans feel better to say that he's only winning because he has top level recruits and that their team would be winning if it were not for all those pesky top recruits going to Penn State?

 

You nailed it, IronChef.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Penn State fans should be happy Iowa, Minnesota and other fans are taking shots at Cael, whether they are legitimate criticisms or not. it means you are on top. congrats, you are number 1!

 

take the negative comments and trash talk - as mild as it often is - in stride and be magnanimous. it'll go a long way toward winning over non penn state fans, much further than the constant over sensitive defending and Queen Gertrude style protests.

 

edit: wrong shagasbere character

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The weirdest thing to me is how some are so dedicated to clinging to the idea that Cael isn't a great or even good coach. I can't tell why some are determined to hold to this idea. Is it jealousy of his success or just simple hatred of a rival team?

 

I can't rule out jealousy because there are a lot of people in Iowa and Minnesota that can't really think straight when it comes to Cael and Penn State. ISU fans are mad he left because they wanted him to win there. Iowa fans are mad because he was safely at the second school in Iowa and unlikely to be as much of a threat as he is now at the top wrestling school in the top high school wrestling state. Minnesota fans are mad because he keeps beating them in March.

 

Does it make some fans feel better to say that he's only winning because he has top level recruits and that their team would be winning if it were not for all those pesky top recruits going to Penn State?

 

The weirdest thing to me is how many, like you , misperceive less than absolute praise as some sort of slight or even attack. I do not see one person on here who says Cael is less than a good coach. I personally believe he is a great coach.

 

His ability to develop less credentialed wrestlers is the only thing that is not definitive. That is why it is often questioned. I truly don't believe he is weak in this area and am interested to see how he does with 133, 165 and 184 in the next couple years. Now that he doesn't have the bonus points of Taylor and Ruth the performance at these weights will be paramount for them to stay on top.

 

I will state each item I believe is important(and more importantly visible to someone not inside the program) to DI coaching and how I think(soley so I can go back to this post when I get accused of being in the group that attacks Sanderson) Sanderson has done.

 

1. Recruiting (He is hands down the best in DI right now.)

2. Marketing (Although I disagree with his stance on National Duals he is now rivaling the Mighty Hawkeyes for attendance and limelight. He is very close to , if not the, best.)

3. Keeping his kids eligible and healthy and focused come NCAA time.(You will always have injuries, but other than Long and Alton, he has done a sensational job making sure his team is ready and available come March. I am not sure anyone has done any better than him in his time at PSU.)

4. Development(This is very hard for just a fan to truly quantify. I believe he has done as well as anyone who doesn't have to focus on this as hard as guys like Flynn do. I think he has shown he is capable but when you fill a room with the talent he has had the focus just isn't needed to be there as much. I am eager to see how he does without Taylor and Ruth.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It amazes me that a few PSU fans seem just incapable of acknowleging that Cael has been pulling in the most highly ranked HS kids over the past 5 years. If you want to include top 25 or 50 HS recruits, Iowa catches up, but when talking about the bluest of blue chip recruits - top 5 , top 10 or top 15 all class, PSU is smoking Iowa and most everyone else (I think Northwestern had one stellar year).

 

You assume that everyone agrees with your definition of the "bluest of blue chip recruits" Rossel3. We've covered this ground before in a very interesting thread several months ago. If one considers the bluest of blue chips to be top 50, then Iowa is smoking most everyone else including PSU. :) It's funny that you can't see this.

 

Cael is starting with a ton of extremely elite HS talent

 

And so is Tom Brands. You can easily argue that Brands is starting with more extremely elite recruits than Cael. Don't ignore that fact. :)

 

I see no significant differences between Iowa and PSU's recruiting classes over the past few years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
?

 

 

If he could get Megaludis to finish on top this year (because if he redshirts he won't have to wrestle Delgado or Garrett - assuming Garrett is bumping like I have read)

 

This is the first I've heard of Garrett potentially bumping up.

 

Haven't seen anything from the team or Garrett, but I am pretty sure I have read some Cornell posters somewhere saying Garrett and Realbutto are bumping.

 

Regardless I think Nico needs a win over Garrett and Delgado to prove he is improving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

James English wasn't even a top 150 recruit. Matt Brown was #77 coming out of high school. Vollrath didn't finish higher then 4th in high school, yet defeated this year's 157 champ last season as he placed 2nd at the scuffle. It's always amusing how people desperately try not to give Cael Sanderson credit despite an enormous amount of success. Meanwhile, Tom Brands had two #1 classes in the lineup this past year and finished 4th, yet gets a free pass from guys like MSU and Hawktalk. Developing top talent is a skill, and Sanderson has proved to be the master.

 

Easy hombre, no need to get all fired up, I tried to be fairly civil about. If you disagree with something I said let's talk about it and not default to "Hawk fans don't want to give Cael credit" or "Oh yeah, what's so great about Tom Brands" I never said Brands was perfect, I believe this discussion was centered around Penn State, which is why I only addressed PSU. Had the OP been about PSU catching flack and Brands is perfect, I would have said something about Iowa.

 

I have even acknowledged the English thing as a stroke of good fortune, and I don't think you could argue it was that. He has never been a starter, so for him to go from backup to AA is pretty good luck, but yes Cael deserves the credit for the brilliance of the move.

 

If you can hang your hat on Vollrath beating Dieringer one time, more power to you. It's not like he was an AA sitting on your bench. Dylan Alton is a lot better than Vollrath and he failed to make the podium.

 

Also, if you want to bring up Brands failing to develop talent looking at the three starters he graduates. D1 did their 2009 rewind (http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_2009.html) and you can check it out. Ramos (10), St. John (15), and Lofthouse (17)

all improved upon their rankings. St. John finished 5, Ramos 6, and Lofthouse 12. Not saying he is perfect, but 2009 was a good year for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Cael is a great coach because he briefly coached Bubba Jenkins who pinned Taylor.

 

Actually great recruits make great coaches look great. Cael has won 4 in a row. He has to be a great coach to pull that off regardless of having the best talent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can we all agree that there are a lot of great college coaches. There are a lot of great recruits. One can help benefit the other. One can succeed in spite of the other.

 

Cael loyalists bring the distain towards Cael IMO. If you don't like how Cael is "disrespected" then take a step back from building him up the mystique of Cael. If you aren't there building him up, I am guessing people won't be there waiting to knock him down. Sit back and enjoy the ride! There will be a time when Cael is no longer a coach as PSU and the wrestling world will go on. Like I said, Cael is capable of writing his own story.

 

Most people are entirely too opinionated and not objective enough to engage in an actual conversation especially when it comes to who is the best wrestler, coach, team, program, etc. As a result it ends in a pissing match.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...