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MSU158

I am not sure the Maryland and Rutgers fans realize....

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Ha, I love how predictable NJ Marty is. He couldn't wait to jump all over me but I must admit thats pretty good that he couldn't disagree with any of my points except my minor mention of Pa state schools. He's finally starting to realize his state is over-rated and now he just has to get over his love of his urban areas in NJ. I will mention a few things about this and if you don't know the climate of Pa high school wrestling, you probably won't get this.

 

I do admit that Rutgers could be an excellent choice for many NJ wrestlers. Academically, it is a solid institution. To compare to Lehigh, I would question. Maybe more along the lines of Univ. Buffalo or Binghamton would be more accurate. However, let's look at this realistically. The number of wrestlers who will get a significantly better experience by having NYC right up the road and the beaches an hour away just does not apply to the majority of wrestlers, imo. It sounds great on paper, but how many of Rutgers wrestling grads are that much further ahead than their counterparts from Edinboro and Bloomsburg. I doubt many and that's not because of the college but more on what these individuals major in. I also know for a fact that a number of Rutgers recent wrestling grads from NJ were not exactly rocket scientists. Therefore, its not so much the college that you graduate from as much as how well you do in school and what major you have.

 

Now, when you are selling to the kids from Benton, Bellefonte, Tyrone, Reynolds, and 95% of Pennsylvania high school wrestlers, you are talking to kids from rural backgrounds who would choose hunting, fishing and other outdoor sports to the culture in NY or Philly or the Jersey Shore(hell, you know we take our kids to the NJ shore at least once in their lifetime just so they won't ever want to go back!). As far as your argument about all the culture, Bloomsburg is closer to all these items than Penn State and PSU still seem to bring wrestlers out there. I understand that their are a few of those kids who will want to move to New Brunswick and deal with the traffic, pollution, and crime for the benefit of having that Rutgers degree.....but not many.

 

If you gave Edinboro,Clarion and Bloom 9.9 scholarships and full compliment of asst. coaches, they would be better than Rutgers year in and year out. I don't care if they wrestled in the EWL, EIWA or the Big10 simply because the talent pool is so much better and most kids in Pa would be more comfortable in a more rural/suburban setting.

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In my opinion, UMD and Rutgers both have very high upsides. Rutgers is in NJ, a wrestling hotbed, and close to PA and NY which are also two of the best states. Maryland is obviously close to NJ, PA and NY as well. Everyone knows that the big ten is by far the best conference so an east coast stud who previously had to go into the middle of nowhere (e.g-purdue, nebraska, minnesota) to wrestle in the best conference, now have two east coast alternatives. The midwestern part of the nation would be a culture shock to many east coast kids. Also, being that far away from home is another potential negative. Also, both UMD and Rutgers have somewhat urban campuses as opposed to most the big ten schools. As for this topic, kind of ridiculous. Rutgers and UMD could both benefit from going to the big ten but that results will not just magically appear. The coaches will need to keep pushing to grow their programs and attract the best recruits they can. As for past performance, Maryland has been generally outperforming Indiana, Purdue and Mich State at the NCAA tournament for years now. Don't let these facts interfere with your discussion:

 

2014- Maryland 20, Indiana 25 , Michigan State 32, Rutgers 34, Purdue 39

2013- Maryland 27, Purdue 31, Rutgers 35, Indiana 41, Michigan State 51

2012 Purdue 28, Maryland 31 MSU and Indiana 37 Rutgers 45

2011 Maryland 18 Indiana 25 Rutgers 27 Purdue 39 MSU 43

2010 Mich State 18, Maryland 20 Indiana 21 Purdue 28 Rutgers 32

2009 Maryland 10 Purude 23 INdiana 24, Mich State 25, Rutgers 48

2008 Indiana 12 Maryland 21 MSU 28 Purdue 30 Rutgers No nat Qualifiers

2007 Indiana 14 Mich State 29 Maryland 33 Purdue 42 Rutgers No nat qualifiers.

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I understand that their are a few of those kids who will want to move to New Brunswick and deal with the traffic, pollution, and crime for the benefit of having that Rutgers degree.....but not many.

 

traffic yes, but how much driving to college kids do? i spent four years on a rural campus and only had a car for 2 of them. you can easily get by all 4 years at RU without wheels.

 

pollution and crime, no and no. pretty ignorant to toss those out there.

 

all the schools have plenty going for them though. im equally happy for the happy students at Edinboro, Bloomsburg etc as i am for the content coeds at Rutgers.

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Maryland and Rutgers programs are light years apart right now. Maryland is struggling finishing last with 7 points at B1G tournament and have zero returning NCAA Qualifiers. Rutgers finished 5th at B1G tournament with 106 points and have 10 NCAA qualifiers returning this season. When Pat Santoro left Maryland so did its good wrestling program.

Edited by NJwrestlingguy

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Great year for Rutgers. Hopefully they can sustain and maintain. Truly a high end coaching staff and it looks like they have very solid AD support. I have a hard time seeing them get to the PSU, Iowa, tOSU level. But, Minnesota may haven fallen back just a bit into the 2nd tier with Michigan, Nebraska and Illinois and I think Rutgers could be battling them for that 4th spot for the foreseeable future. Not bad considering the top 3 B1G teams are all often top 5 Nationally!

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Who said I don't want teams to compete? That said, if you say crazy stuff, expect to get made fun of for saying crazy stuff. You just said that Rutgers is ALREADY BETTER THAN MICHIGAN. As in today. You're just being foolish. But hey, they finally got their first AA. And how does Iowa have anything to do with it? They are the last team other than Penn State to win a national title. They'll be the preseason #1 team next year. I'm not sure what that strawman had to do with the price of tea in China, but whatevs.

WRONG

and I can't believe it took somebody 5 pages to correct you.

Edited by josefsmoe

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Yeah MSU, who would have seen that coming, right?

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. 1 year where they took 5th(that is still 4 teams out of only 13 others ahead of them) doesn't all of a sudden make them a B1G powerhouse. I gave them props because they did surprise me and seem to have adapted sooner than I expected. However, using it as a way to dig at me is a bit of a stretch. They have proven to be a great team. However, my original points was the B1G has a bunch of great teams. If they break into the top 4 in the next 5 years, or even stay top 5, then I will definitely admit that I underestimated them!

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How am i wrong?

 

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

This is not an opinion of mine, you are factually wrong.  Guess I'll let someone else explain your re-written version of history.  Always considered you a knowledgeable poster, hmm...

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WRONG

and I can't believe it took somebody 5 pages to correct you.

This is from 2014. In the two intervening years, Rutgers has outplaced Michigan in one of four major events.

 

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

Edited by VakAttack

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This is from 2014. In the two intervening years, Rutgers has outplaced Michigan in one of four major events.

 

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

Nope . I figured you could look at your post and see the error.  Try harder.

 

Ok Vak, I am the idiot.  I sincerely appologize.  Again I am an idiot.  I did not see the date ofyour post.

 

I was talking about tOSU championship.

Edited by josefsmoe

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Nope . I figured you could look at your post and see the error.  Try harder.

 

Ok Vak, I am the idiot.  I sincerely appologize.  Again I am an idiot.  I did not see the date ofyour post.

 

I was talking about tOSU championship.

 

Oh, ok.  I was really confused.  Looking at the post, I was wrong anyway, since obviously that wasn't Rutgers first AA.

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NJWC,

 

First off, remember that my argument wasn't solely Rutgers.  It was both Maryland and Rutgers.

 

One year at 5th place doesn't blow my theory out of the water.  And I MOST DEFINITELY did not say they were a bottom feeder program.  I simply said it will be hard for them to finish Top 10.  That was more of a testament to how STRONG the B1G has been.  They had a very solid year this past season.  5th in the B1G and 7th out of the B1G at NCAA's.  Still, do you really want to use that as some giant "I told you so?"  

 

Minnesota had their worst season in recent memory.  Northwestern had so much chaos they almost didn't field a team.  Wisconsin Olympic redshirted their best wrestler.  I said from the beginning that I expected them to be able to finish ahead of Indiana, Purdue and MSU.

 

Still, I suspect that they will have more success than I originally expected.  I will give you that.  The video showing them getting ready to go to Nationals showed me a lot that I didn't know about the support they are getting from the Administration.  That speaks volumes.

 

Finally, they lose 3 solid seniors in Perrotti, Hrymack and Smith with no highly visible heir apparent.  Do they bump up Lewis to put Theobold at 157?  Or, does Dippery go up and allow Theobold to man 149?

 

Here is the lineup as I see it(please let me know if/where I am wrong):

 

125:McCabe

133:Giraldo

141:Ashnault

149:Dippery

157:Theobold

165:Lewis

174:Bakuckus

184:Gravina

197:Scott

285:Normandia

 

This is a solid lineup, but I think they will have a hard time duplicating last season's performance.  The key will be whether Theobold can offset the Perrotti loss.  Even then, 197 and 285 seem to be a significant drop off.  Their tournament success is going to rely heavily on Ashnault's performance.  

Edited by MSU158

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Conor Medbery is Wisconsin's best wrestler? Better than Isaac Jordan? NU almost didn't field a team? I think you might be exaggerating your caveats (cough excuses cough) MSU. But that's just nitpicking, not trying to pile on :)

 

best guess for RU next year

 

125:McCabe

133:DelVecchio

141:Ashnault

149:Theobold/Giraldo/Dippery

157:Lewis/Theobold/Giraldo/Dippery

165:Pagano/Lewis

174:Bakuckus

184:Gravina

197:Kremiller

285:Normandia

 

125-157 should all improve or at least hold steady. Log jam at 149/157/165 will depend on what size everyone is by this fall (but I can all but guarantee Giraldo will not be back at 133). 165 will probably not AA so there will be a drop there. 174/184 should improve. 197 might see a drop but Hrymack, while putting up a few heroic performances, was really a back up and was very inconsistent (though extremely well regarded as a person by all accounts). 285 is the biggest questions mark. 3 time R12 Smith will be missed dearly. 

 

there are also 6 top 150 overall recruits coming in, though I believe they will all be redshirted unless they are needed due to injuries. 

 

overall I think the team takes a slight step back, although it's possible they see an improvement. they outperformed by expectations this past year so you never know. 

 

ps this Google doc from @obrats is an excellent reference for RU line up questions https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5PqbM5kti4XVTZtMzZFd0xuNDA/view

Edited by Jaroslav Hasek

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I wouldn't be surprised to see Mulligan or Correnti in the lineup at 197 or hwt.

Getting Delvecchio and Theobold back will help. I understand Girlado was really feeling the cut last season,

He's a talented kid. Can he jump two weights? Gravina is improving significantly, and will have a nice year.

Bottom line, as I stated and what has MSU choking on his excuses, is that there is no reason Rutgers can't be a fixture

In the top half of the league.

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Far from choking.  I am IMPRESSED with what Goodale and Pritzlaff have done.  Still, 4 out of 13 other teams finished ahead of them and another 2 finished ahead of them at NCAA's.  Nothing I have seen will change the fact that they will be battling with Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota and Wisconsin for 5-9th place.  Northwestern's current situation, however, has darn near locked them into the top 10.

 

I will OPENLY admit that they are better now than I expected them to be, but the B1G will still make it VERY HARD for them to consistently stay in the top 7.

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Ashnault might not be able to hold 141 next year.  He was huge for the weight last year and had trouble pulling the weight all year long.

 

Of course, it is HIGHLY doubtful that he bites the bullet and moves up haha.  He'll make the pull again this year.

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