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olddirty

Kurbanaliev got screwed. Disturbing

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Russian scores a 4 pt throw to the back and is given 2.

 

The most disturbing part was Metcalf's gut wrench on the first series. It is so blatantly hand to hand, and all 3 refs throw up the 2. The ref was literally less than a foot away from the action. Did the rules change back to all turns being 2 and I missed the FILA email? If so, I retract my statement and put my foot in my mouth. If not, there needs to be sanctions against the refs. Someone needs to hold these guys accountable. I thought we were switching to an outsourced refereeing comittee per our plea to the IOC to stop the corruption. What gives?

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Don't see a problem with the first gut.

 

1:15-1:30 - could be a 1-pointer for Metcalf. The 1 point correct hold thing still confuses me.

 

1:45-1:55 - looks like a 2-pointer followed by a 4-pointer for Kurbanaliev. If there was no exposure on the 4-pointer, does that mean it's worth nothing under the current rules? The old "correct hold"/appreciation point terminology is gone.

 

7:51 - 4 for Metcalf, not 2 and 2 (but with current rules it doesn't matter much)

 

**

 

The thing that strikes me about this match is that Metcalf hit the left-handed high crotch relentlessly, even after Kurbanaliev knew it was coming and defended it successfully more than once. I'd like to see him have more comfort with a second attack or two that complements the left-handed high crotch, so that he can just fake toward it with the intention of hitting something else -- misdirection to the other side, left handed front headlock, whatever.

 

Kurbanaliev did not get the takedown in the bolded sequence due to only two points being down, no knee or head was down for Metcalf. I thought it could have been a 4 or 2 depending on if you think he broke 90 on the attempt.

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I have not watched any of the Video's but Please understand something....in 1994 John Fisher was wrestling in Russia against a Russian. The Russian shot a LOW SINGLE leg, John picked up his foot and the Russian went right by him....John spun around and scored a TD....But, it was waived off and called a "SLIP THROW". I was standing mat side and watched it all....

 

There is something called Home Field Advantage. Not sure this is what happened at BTS Time Square, but I know it does happen....

 

Just Saying

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Kurbanaliev did not get the takedown in the bolded sequence due to only two points being down, no knee or head was down for Metcalf. I thought it could have been a 4 or 2 depending on if you think he broke 90 on the attempt.

 

That may have been the call, but Metcalf hit both hands, his right hip and his right knee.

 

As an aside, unless I'm mistaken, if you hit a side, it's almost always considered to be a takedown, even if you don't hit a hand/head/knee from the other side. I could be wrong about this, though - what I'm describing would just be an interpretation of the intent of the rules, and does not appear in the written rules.

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I would add that Metcalf needs to tighten up his game (defensively) if he is going to have success at the Worlds. He got thrown around by the Iranian at the World Cup, and if it hadn't been for his motor, the Iranian would've won convincingly. In this match he pretty much was in control however, he needs to be aware of the Russian's tricks. Fortunately Brent's motor came to the rescue again.

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I would add that Metcalf needs to tighten up his game (defensively) if he is going to have success at the Worlds. He got thrown around by the Iranian at the World Cup, and if it hadn't been for his motor, the Iranian would've won convincingly. In this match he pretty much was in control however, he needs to be aware of the Russian's tricks. Fortunately Brent's motor came to the rescue again.

 

It is tough to stay in perfect defensive position while constantly moving forward and attacking. It is tough to wear a guy down and make the end of the match about lungs if you are not constantly moving forward and attacking.

 

I honestly think Metcalf just has to wrestle like he has been and hope he doesn't dig too deep a hole that he can't get out. But I think if he slows down even a bit in the name of better defense, he is on the outside looking in.

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It doesnt matter if you start on your elbow when getting gut wrenched. If your opponenet takes you through and you only post on your hand, its 1 point. Clearly, he does not hit an elbow on the gutwrench.

If you're on an elbow and you're past 90, that's 2. In a gut wrench, that can be either elbow (or both).

 

Here's one definition for "danger":

 

"The defending wrestler, with his back toward the mat, supports himself on one or both elbows

to avoid having his shoulders forced onto the mat."

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Well even if Metcalf got add'l points on his gut wrenches, it was like 10 to 8 with about two minutes to go. At that point Metcalf just played defense. However, knowing the way Metcalf wrestles, had he been behind he would've kept the pressure on and I believe Kurbanaliev's gas tank would've collapsed anyway.

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What I implied above about the first Kurbanaliev scoring sequence (1:45 to 1:55 in usawrestling's youtube video) was incorrect. In this case, it should have been 2 and 2, because it looks like Metcalf did not expose when he was lifted.

 

Here's a relevant quote from the rulebook:

 

"In the "par terre" position, any complete lift from the ground executed by the attacking wrestler, whether the attacked wrestler lands in neutral position (4 points in Greco Roman, 2 points in Freestyle) or in a danger position (5 points in Greco Roman and 4 points in Freestyle), is also considered a grand amplitude throw."

 

The way it was called, Kurbanaliev got no points for the initial takedown, then two points for a throw with control but no danger. ("2 points - To the wrestler who executes a grand amplitude hold and secures control, but does not place the opponent in a direct and immediate danger position in Freestyle wrestling.")

 

Regarding my original question about appreciation points above, I'm still not sure, but I think that a throw without control is now worth nothing, unless it lands the opponent in danger or on three points of contact.

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Kurbanaliev did not have the initial takedown it he 1:45 sequence. Metcalf hit his hip, but Kurbanaliev was never behind him at that point. I would suspect that would be what the ref would say if approached by this. Therefore there is no way to call the 2 + 2 sequence. It could have however been a 4 point move, which I will not argue as it was extremely close to exposure and the camera angle isn't the greatest.

 

Wrestlers can still get a one point for a "correct throw" that does not land in danger.

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It doesnt matter if you start on your elbow when getting gut wrenched. If your opponenet takes you through and you only post on your hand, its 1 point. Clearly, he does not hit an elbow on the gutwrench.

If you're on an elbow and you're past 90, that's 2. In a gut wrench, that can be either elbow (or both).

 

Here's one definition for "danger":

 

"The defending wrestler, with his back toward the mat, supports himself on one or both elbows

to avoid having his shoulders forced onto the mat."

 

I agree, which is why I disagree with the call. When Kurbanaliev goes past 90, he clearly only hits a hand, not an elbow.

vdg1a1.jpg

 

Now, would scoring this and the other points caused Kurbanaliev to win? IMO no, Metcalf was better. But, taking 3 points away from a guy early in the match sure as sht will cause a big strategy change. Let Metcalf win because he is better, not because of scoring interpretations. Give us a chance to see those high crotches develop or his gas tank overwhelm the Russian.

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It doesnt matter if you start on your elbow when getting gut wrenched. If your opponenet takes you through and you only post on your hand, its 1 point. Clearly, he does not hit an elbow on the gutwrench.

If you're on an elbow and you're past 90, that's 2. In a gut wrench, that can be either elbow (or both).

 

Here's one definition for "danger":

 

"The defending wrestler, with his back toward the mat, supports himself on one or both elbows

to avoid having his shoulders forced onto the mat."

 

I agree, which is why I disagree with the call. When Kurbanaliev goes past 90, he clearly only hits a hand, not an elbow.

vdg1a1.jpg

 

Now, would scoring this and the other points caused Kurbanaliev to win? IMO no, Metcalf was better. But, taking 3 points away from a guy early in the match sure as sht will cause a big strategy change. Let Metcalf win because he is better, not because of scoring interpretations. Give us a chance to see those high crotches develop or his gas tank overwhelm the Russian.

 

great view of the end of the turn. i think some argued that there was an elbow still on the mat as the turn started and broke 90?

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dyaphl.jpg

 

He then goes through to only a hand. Elbow off the mat when breaking 90. Take this match and put it anywhere else in the world and its a 1 point hand to hand. I can guarantee you the refs on the side did not have any kind of view like the picture above, which was still not a 2. What they saw was this, which shows a 1 but was given 2.

 

vdg1a1.jpg

 

The real thing that could have changed the match was the belly to back which was given a 2 instead of 4. I hope Metcalf wont have to encounter anything close like what happened here at worlds and just sticks to his hi-c that has been looking so good.

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dyaphl.jpg

 

He then goes through to only a hand. Elbow off the mat when breaking 90. Take this match and put it anywhere else in the world and its a 1 point hand to hand. I can guarantee you the refs on the side did not have any kind of view like the picture above, which was still not a 2. What they saw was this, which shows a 1 but was given 2.

 

vdg1a1.jpg

 

The real thing that could have changed the match was the belly to back which was given a 2 instead of 4. I hope Metcalf wont have to encounter anything close like what happened here at worlds and just sticks to his hi-c that has been looking so good.

Your line is not parallel to his back. It's closer to the arm angle from L elbow to L shoulder. R scapula visible to R of line. And your "horizontal" line isn't. You can't use a receding mat edge as a horizontal frame of reference. At least make it wide enough to obscure the attempt at deception. :o

I'd say it's 90 degrees, and I'd be surprised if he could have gotten off that elbow (wt on elbow, and hand not apparently planted-taking the necessary transferring weight) in the next fraction of a second, assuming he hasn't already reached 90 degrees.

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olddirty,

You sound like a ref any time I question a call. You are making up rules and anything to justify your stance even though you are wrong. Kurbanaliev has to be one of the best athletes in the universe to go from that position to a locked out hand position before breaking 90.

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