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Proof that old school wrestling wasn't as good as now

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Technique and training have both improved. So has equipment.

 

Ever wrestled on 3-4 inch thick horsehair mat with a plastic stretch cover? You could trip on the folds and some did.

 

Given training time a champion would still be a champion.

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Absolutely correct Denny. We step up on the shoulders of giants in all fields of endeavor. We couldn't be where we are today without the old timers. This whole "we're better than you guys were" is so disconnected and DisrespectFul.

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This topic is so nauseating....."gee, look how superior we all are compared to the old time greats, with their funny stances". So what if Kyle Dake would kick Doug Blubaugh's ass in a time machine? He benefits from 50 years of advancements in technique, strength training, life long exposure to the best coaching and competition, etc. In another 50 years we will have genetically engineered athletes (probably) that will make Dake look like a JV wrestler. If you reversed Dake and Blubaugh's eras and thus their training situations, Blubaugh would kick Dake's ass. Which proves absolutely nothing.

 

No disrespect meant in this response to Kyle Dake who is a legendary competitor, btw. He just wouldn't be quite as good if he had been born in 1940.

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If you reversed Dake and Blubaugh's eras and thus their training situations, Blubaugh would kick Dake's ass.

 

Based on what evidence?

 

Well, counselor, I have no evidence as my time machine is in the shop currently, so I am using logic to explain why the wrestlers are better, which is no less solid that your value judgment that the techniques look primitive from that era. What is your position as to why the wrestlers are better today? That we have become a superior evolved species over the past 50 years, and Kyle Dake born in 1941 and raised on a dairy farm in Wisconsin would wrestle exactly the same as Kyle Dake born in 1991, and just toy with everyone?

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Why talk about time machines flux capacitors when you have clear cut video to look at and determine who is better?

 

Guys are better now because they put in more time. Guys back in those days wrestled a few months of the year for a hobby. Guys now do it for a full time job.

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What is your position as to why the wrestlers are better today?

 

If you don't think athletes in most every sport, and not just wrestling, are better today than during the era that vid was taken then I don't know what else to say to you.

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What is your position as to why the wrestlers are better today?

 

If you don't think athletes in most every sport, and not just wrestling, are better today than during the era that vid was taken then I don't know what else to say to you.

 

Apparently reading comprehension has not advanced the way athletics have. If you read my entire paragraph, not just the out of context sentence, I am not stating that athletes are not better today, I am asking "what is the reason they are better?" And the reason is because they have access to advantages that the old timers didn't have. But to demean the old timers because they didn't have access to said advantages is the height of ignorance.

 

I mean, if Stephen Hawking were born 40,000 years ago he'd have been a caveman communicating with a combination of gestures and grunts. What's your point?

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Apparently reading comprehension has not advanced the way athletics have. If you read my entire paragraph, not just the out of context sentence, I am not stating that athletes are not better today, I am asking "what is the reason they are better?" And the reason is because they have access to advantages that the old timers didn't have. But to demean the old timers because they didn't have access to said advantages is the height of ignorance.

 

You're the one who said Blubaugh would destroy Dake if you switched their training situation, with absolutely nothing to back up your absurd assertion.

 

It doesn't have to do with "access to advantages that old timers didn't have" as much as it has to do with people being bigger, faster, stronger now than 50 years ago when that vid was taken. Check out the average height and weight for people 50 years ago compared to today. We start off with a better base athlete today than 50 years ago.

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Wrestlers today are better off than wrestlers of yesterday. Newton advanced science based on Galileo and Copernicus' work, and Einstein advanced from Newton. They were all pretty smart. None were better, just better off as a result of those who came before.

 

If it's a big condescending laugh you want, check out the early films of the first experimental efforts at plane flight prior to the Wright brothers. Their mistakes weren't laughable at the time, but they are amusing now. They risked their lives so we could fly just as old school wrestlers wrestled on hard, filthy mats making sloppy mistakes.

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Apparently reading comprehension has not advanced the way athletics have. If you read my entire paragraph, not just the out of context sentence, I am not stating that athletes are not better today, I am asking "what is the reason they are better?" And the reason is because they have access to advantages that the old timers didn't have. But to demean the old timers because they didn't have access to said advantages is the height of ignorance.

 

You're the one who said Blubaugh would destroy Dake if you switched their training situation, with absolutely nothing to back up your absurd assertion.

 

It doesn't have to do with "access to advantages that old timers didn't have" as much as it has to do with people being bigger, faster, stronger now than 50 years ago when that vid was taken. Check out the average height and weight for people 50 years ago compared to today. We start off with a better base athlete today than 50 years ago.

 

I assume that you are just "in character" in your chosen role as the forum's court jester or village idiot, but I'll play along and respond anyway. Even if people were bigger than they were 50 years ago (probably fatter is more like it) what difference would that make it a sport like wrestling where we have weight classes?

 

So your laughable position seems to be athletes are not better today because of improved knowledge of technique and training that has been built up over the 50 years, but because human beings are just superior today, JUST BECAUSE. Why? Did Human DNA just evolve that much in two generations? Do you not understand that evolutionary changes are something that happen over thousands or millions of years, not two generations?

 

Cooch says it perfectly. "Newton advanced science based on Galileo and Copernicus' work, and Einstein advanced from Newton. They were all pretty smart. None were better, just better off as a result of those who came before." And in the same way, wrestler have advanced on each other. 50 years ago, you wrestled for whoever took the job of wrestling coach at your school, and that's who you learned from, for a three month season. Today, wrestlers have their own personal Russian Olympian Coach training them year round by age ten. Your smugness at diminishing the old timers who didn't have these advantages is pathetic.

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Often,we will read a post that makes particular good sense to us (me). The post is written by a wrestler/coach from back in the 60's/70's. And the person remains (today) involved in our sport of wrestling.

 

Not that I think that he is the do all or the end all. Although, I find myself paying close (closer) attention to the subject matter. Just what it is that the guy has to say.

 

Now, you younger studs, don't get all hostile on us. There is so much to know and learn in our sport. I can appreciate where our sport is today. And where it has come from.

 

Twenty five years from now -- they might have forums such as this. The wrestler and fans may be comparing the wrestlers of that era, to guys (of yesteryear) like Sanderson, Dake, Taylor. Similarly, we are comparing todays wrestling (wrestlers) to those of yesteryear. Such as, Hodge, Uetake, Simons, Evans, Blubaugh and of course Gable. To name a few. Might include the former Clone stud Marcucci.

 

I must say again………..it's all about stepping stones.

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There have been advances in most phases of wrestling over the years. That plus year-round training has made the best wrestlers better technicians than in previous eras.

 

But that doesn't make the average wrestler better. The average wrestler is often worse. 50 years ago when a good high school dual would regularly draw 2,000 fans and wrestling was a major sport, teams would go 3-4 deep per weight class. Today there are fewer participants because there is so much else for kids to do. If you can't start, why bother going out? Teams struggle to field a JV. Teams have a few 'stars' who wrestle year-round but your average wrestler on your average team is often just plain bad - not well coached, not fast, not strong.

 

As for speed, power, size? Sorry, but that just doesn't fly. You can't coach speed. Speed is a gift that a few wrestlers from every era have been granted.

 

In the old days there was a lot less concern about weight loss. Every team had kids sucking major weight. So to claim that today's kids are bigger at the same weight class is arguable at best. It was usually the other way around. I've been astonished by the small size of some great wrestlers in recent years compared to their counterparts from the old days.

 

As far as conditioning - today's kids are better conditioned than the kids of 50-60 years ago. But that trend didn't start yesterday. In the 80's many teams had tremendous conditioning programs. And their kids wrestled year-round.

 

Technique is what separates today's kids from yesteryear's. And that's just a natural progression - the evolution of any sport. But the kids are not bigger and they are not faster.

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