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JohnnyThompsonnum1

Why I don't put much stock in high school results

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BobDole - I've been following collegiate wrestling since 2001. So my knowledge of wrestlers, goes back to those that graduated high school in 1995 (Seeing that there are a couple of sixth year seniors that graduated in 2001). Going from 1995 to 2009 (Seeing that there are a couple of sixth year seniors that will graduate next year) that gives a 14 year period, where year after year after year, people predict huge, huge things for kids, and then even if they do well, but not as well, they're written off.

 

What you're saying is that's how it is, and there isn't anything I can do about it. People are going to hype these kids up, expect the world out of them and then write them off when they don't live up to expectations as freshmen, even if they do end up panning out to be pretty good later on in their careers. That's how it is. Ok great, that's how it is. I'm going to speak my mind about it occasionally, that's how it is. Great.

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BobDole - I've been following collegiate wrestling since 2001. So my knowledge of wrestlers, goes back to those that graduated high school in 1995 (Seeing that there are a couple of sixth year seniors that graduated in 2001). Going from 1995 to 2009 (Seeing that there are a couple of sixth year seniors that will graduate next year) that gives a 14 year period, where year after year after year, people predict huge, huge things for kids, and then even if they do well, but not as well, they're written off.

Thank you for the history lesson.

 

What you're saying is that's how it is, and there isn't anything I can do about it.

 

This may help you

height=300http://www.wrestleenigma.com/wallpapers/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/YES-YES.jpg[/img]

 

People are going to hype these kids up, expect the world out of them and then write them off when they don't live up to expectations as freshmen, even if they do end up panning out to be pretty good later on in their careers. That's how it is. Ok great, that's how it is. I'm going to speak my mind about it occasionally, that's how it is. Great.

And you will continue to look like an idiot over and over and over and over again. Let me try to help you a little more since amateur wrestling is the only non-scripted activity you follow. Fans get excited about their teams, if there was not a reason to get excited then there is no point in being a fan. Fans also get disappointed easily, again it comes with the territory. If you followed other sports you would see this, but alas you are more concerned with Triple H and Roddy Roddy Piper.

 

Get over it, no matter how much you rant and rave it will not change.

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BobDole - I've been following collegiate wrestling since 2001. So my knowledge of wrestlers, goes back to those that graduated high school in 1995 (Seeing that there are a couple of sixth year seniors that graduated in 2001). Going from 1995 to 2009 (Seeing that there are a couple of sixth year seniors that will graduate next year) that gives a 14 year period, where year after year after year, people predict huge, huge things for kids, and then even if they do well, but not as well, they're written off.

Thank you for the history lesson.

 

What you're saying is that's how it is, and there isn't anything I can do about it.

 

This may help you

height=300http://www.wrestleenigma.com/wallpapers/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/YES-YES.jpg[/img]

 

People are going to hype these kids up, expect the world out of them and then write them off when they don't live up to expectations as freshmen, even if they do end up panning out to be pretty good later on in their careers. That's how it is. Ok great, that's how it is. I'm going to speak my mind about it occasionally, that's how it is. Great.

And you will continue to look like an idiot over and over and over and over again. Let me try to help you a little more since amateur wrestling is the only non-scripted activity you follow. Fans get excited about their teams, if there was not a reason to get excited then there is no point in being a fan. Fans also get disappointed easily, again it comes with the territory. If you followed other sports you would see this, but alas you are more concerned with Triple H and Roddy Roddy Piper.

 

Get over it, no matter how much you rant and rave it will not change.

 

As far as I know fans of other sports, get excited when a veteran player does well, just as they do when a rookie does well. Yet take a kid that wins a national title as a freshman, vs a kid that wins it as a sophomore, and the excitement is quite measurable.

 

Is baseball scripted? I like baseball too.

 

I find it hilarious that you think because I enjoyed and watched professional wrestling in the late 80's through the mid 90's, that it automatically writes me off as an idiot. No, what makes someone an idiot, is to scapegoat professional wrestling as the reason amateur wrestling isn't more popular. What makes someone an idiot, is to make connections that aren't there. That's what makes someone an idiot.

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You are an idiot for topics such as this one. You get your panties in a bunch because fans gets excited over recruits that win big high school tournaments. You also seem to get your panties in a bunch when fans get excited when they have a freshman national champ. You must not follow baseball that closely to see fans get excited or disappointed in their teams then.

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You are an idiot for topics such as this one. You get your panties in a bunch because fans gets excited over recruits that win big high school tournaments. You also seem to get your panties in a bunch when fans get excited when they have a freshman national champ. You must not follow baseball that closely to see fans get excited or disappointed in their teams then.

 

Your comprehension skills rate about a zero. Then again, we're having a discussion, and you find it wise to bring up something completely irrelevant to justify a point that you don't have, because it proves nothing other than your own bias against something. What next? I'm an idiot because I don't like the right type of music?

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You are an idiot for topics such as this one. You get your panties in a bunch because fans gets excited over recruits that win big high school tournaments. You also seem to get your panties in a bunch when fans get excited when they have a freshman national champ. You must not follow baseball that closely to see fans get excited or disappointed in their teams then.

 

Your comprehension skills rate about a zero. Then again, we're having a discussion, and you find it wise to bring up something completely irrelevant to justify a point that you don't have, because it proves nothing other than your own bias against something. What next? I'm an idiot because I don't like the right type of music?

You are so dense you don't even know what you are saying. You really shouldn't read a messageboard if you don't like how fans get excited and disappointed for their team's and their success or failures.

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You guys are looking at it from a coaching perspective, and if I were a collegiate coach, like I am not, like most of us are not, I'd be looking at it from a coaching perspective as well. I'm talking from a fan perspective, because I'm not a collegiate coach, as most of us on here are not, I am a fan, which most of us are.

 

what?! well, at least we know where maya angelou's soul went. pure poetry!

 

but i think this runs counterintuitive of your original argument.

 

(if i follow this correctly)

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Careers last for four to five years, and guys who were phenomenal in high school might not turn out to be in college. Guys that weren't the best of the absolute best in high school, might turn out to be in college. Let us continue to act like that doesn't happen though, at least not in the 10's of thousands of post on themat.com.

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Fans (short for fanatics), no matter the sport, get excited for positive things and blow things out of proportion; and get down on their team/individuals when things go south (while also blowing things out of proportion). This will never change and if you haven't figured that out by now, you are even denser than I originally thought.

 

Did Clint Howard use you as inspiration for his role?

 

You'll have to be more specific. Mr. Howard has had lots of acting roles.

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Careers last for four to five years, and guys who were phenomenal in high school might not turn out to be in college. Guys that weren't the best of the absolute best in high school, might turn out to be in college. Let us continue to act like that doesn't happen though, at least not in the 10's of thousands of post on themat.com.

 

Wow, where do you come up with this type of earth shattering analysis? I think you should forward this type of stuff to DI coaches around the country as they would love this type of information.

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NEW RULE: No one can analyze or make a prediction of any wrestler until their career is over. It appears that too many people have been wrong with their predictions and there is no place for that in collegiate sport! I can't wait for next year to talk about...nothing....

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NEW RULE: No one can analyze or make a prediction of any wrestler until their career is over. It appears that too many people have been wrong with their predictions and there is no place for that in collegiate sport! I can't wait for next year to talk about...nothing....

 

We can talk about wrestlers who overcame death defying odds of placing 5th at senior nationals to place higher than the champion from senior nationals.

 

We can also make predictions based on our favorite names in each weight class. However, do NOT and I repeat do NOT use past high school success in any way shape or form for these predictions. We also must be aware that even though wrestler A beats B in a dual or tournament, that wrestler B can come back and beat wrestler A at the NCAA tournament.

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NEW RULE: No one can analyze or make a prediction of any wrestler until their career is over. It appears that too many people have been wrong with their predictions and there is no place for that in collegiate sport! I can't wait for next year to talk about...nothing....

 

We can talk about wrestlers who overcame death defying odds of placing 5th at senior nationals to place higher than the champion from senior nationals.

 

We can also make predictions based on our favorite names in each weight class. However, do NOT and I repeat do NOT use past high school success in any way shape or form for these predictions. We also must be aware that even though wrestler A beats B in a dual or tournament, that wrestler B can come back and beat wrestler A at the NCAA tournament.

That is useful information to have! Thank You!

 

I will now inform my wrestlers that they better get 5th or lower at all tournaments from now on or they won't be taken seriously when they get to college.

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NEW RULE: No one can analyze or make a prediction of any wrestler until their career is over. It appears that too many people have been wrong with their predictions and there is no place for that in collegiate sport! I can't wait for next year to talk about...nothing....

 

We can talk about wrestlers who overcame death defying odds of placing 5th at senior nationals to place higher than the champion from senior nationals.

 

We can also make predictions based on our favorite names in each weight class. However, do NOT and I repeat do NOT use past high school success in any way shape or form for these predictions. We also must be aware that even though wrestler A beats B in a dual or tournament, that wrestler B can come back and beat wrestler A at the NCAA tournament.

That is useful information to have! Thank You!

 

I will now inform my wrestlers that they better get 5th or lower at all tournaments from now on or they won't be taken seriously when they get to college.

Never aim for the top step on the podium, aim for the middle. That way 10 years later Johnny will bring it up in a post and use YOUR name!

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Ace - I said already. Lou in 1989's "Parenthood"

 

Ocho - There's plenty to discuss. YOu could talk about sophomores, juniors, seniors. Refs not named Kessel. Coaching changes, coaching hires. Transfers. Redshirts other than freshmen. Weight changes. You know the stuff that is vaguely touched on from time to time, plus much more. Believe me there is more to concentrate on than hyping up recruits only to drastically cut them down when they don't live up to expectations as redshirt and true freshmen. If you don't talk about how a sophomore, who didn't win a national title won't ever win one, even though he has two more chances to win one, believe me, there are other things in the world of collegiate wrestling to discuss. I guess though that since a sophomore or a junior or a senior can't be the next Sanderson, because they already have losses on their record AND because they can't be the next P. Smith, Dake or (if all goes well) L. Steiber, because they have already proven that they won't win four NCAA titles, they aren't worth our time or energy to discuss.

 

I'm not saying to not pay attention to the champs at each weight class at big tournaments. I'm saying that the lower place guys can and usually do very well in college too and quite often do better. If that's the case, year after year after year, why in the name of Sir Isaac H. Newton do we continously act like it isn't?

 

 

By the way BobDole it's 98/100.

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us2f.jpg

 

Man, with all the PM's I am sure you other guys get from JT1, lets hope he doesnt go Steve Buschemi on us.

 

Do you ever tell the truth? Are you capable of it? The last PM I sent someone was April 17th, over a month ago and it was about the usuage of a slang term. I only PM'd you because you deliberatly lied to me about something and I was trying to get out of you that you lied to me. YOu didn't admit it though. Not that a peson of your caliber would. People like you lie, get caught lying and then continue to.

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us2f.jpg

 

Man, with all the PM's I am sure you other guys get from JT1, lets hope he doesnt go Steve Buschemi on us.

 

Do you ever tell the truth? Are you capable of it? The last PM I sent someone was April 17th, over a month ago and it was about the usuage of a slang term. I only PM'd you because you deliberatly lied to me about something and I was trying to get out of you that you lied to me. YOu didn't admit it though. Not that a peson of your caliber would. People like you lie, get caught lying and then continue to.

 

So did you havent threatened physical violence since your last PM to me?

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Just amazing the stuff you come up with. You play the lottery right, because you know there are people that win the lottery even though the odds are against them.

 

No it's more like the majority sees that the lottery is worth $300 million dollars and they get really excited about how much money it is, buying a ticket, telling everyone what they'll do with the money once they win it, while a few sit back and say, "uh, you actually probably won't win the money", and then when they don't win the money, they act shocked and dismiss the lottery as being disappointing to them.

 

 

LOL

 

I agree it may be a reach to start projecting national championships for HS wrestlers, but that's not to say it isn't worthy of discussion, especially when some of them may wrestle college kids in the offseason at FILA Juniors or another tournament.

 

Your metaphor seems to be off as well. What you describe actually resemble something like picking a random name from an entry list at some nobody youth tournament in Kansas and expecting that wrestler to become an Olympic champion. If you can't see the difference between that and predicting success from guys like Bo Nickal, Chance Marsteller or Kyle Snyder, then I am sorry.

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us2f.jpg

 

Man, with all the PM's I am sure you other guys get from JT1, lets hope he doesnt go Steve Buschemi on us.

 

Do you ever tell the truth? Are you capable of it? The last PM I sent someone was April 17th, over a month ago and it was about the usuage of a slang term. I only PM'd you because you deliberatly lied to me about something and I was trying to get out of you that you lied to me. YOu didn't admit it though. Not that a peson of your caliber would. People like you lie, get caught lying and then continue to.

 

So did you havent threatened physical violence since your last PM to me?

You're a liar.

You never talked to who you claim u talked to.

You tell people that I am johhnyh, when I am not.

You claim that I p.m. people all the time

You claim that I threatened u with physical violence.

You're a liar

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for those who haven't had the time, or the sanity to read all four pages

 

in summation....

 

college coaches should recruit HS 5th placers instead of champs.

No. Here is your summary.

 

Obnoxious fans should't sit around getting off at the thought of a kid coming in and being the next four time defeated champion and then act like his coach should take him out back and shoot him when he suffers a tough loss against a tough wrestler.

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Ace - I said already. Lou in 1989's "Parenthood"

 

Ocho - There's plenty to discuss. YOu could talk about sophomores, juniors, seniors. Refs not named Kessel. Coaching changes, coaching hires. Transfers. Redshirts other than freshmen. Weight changes. You know the stuff that is vaguely touched on from time to time, plus much more. Believe me there is more to concentrate on than hyping up recruits only to drastically cut them down when they don't live up to expectations as redshirt and true freshmen. If you don't talk about how a sophomore, who didn't win a national title won't ever win one, even though he has two more chances to win one, believe me, there are other things in the world of collegiate wrestling to discuss. I guess though that since a sophomore or a junior or a senior can't be the next Sanderson, because they already have losses on their record AND because they can't be the next P. Smith, Dake or (if all goes well) L. Steiber, because they have already proven that they won't win four NCAA titles, they aren't worth our time or energy to discuss.

 

I'm not saying to not pay attention to the champs at each weight class at big tournaments. I'm saying that the lower place guys can and usually do very well in college too and quite often do better. If that's the case, year after year after year, why in the name of Sir Isaac H. Newton do we continously act like it isn't?

 

 

By the way BobDole it's 98/100.

 

But we can't get excited about transfers, coaching changes or other wrestlers because we all know the fans would get too excited based on past results. Then if those fans put high expectations on their teams then they will want the coaches and wrestlers put down at the first sign of a loss.

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I wasn't that bright to begin with, but I'm considerably dumber after having read this whole thread.

 

Here's the real summary.

 

JT1 starts this thread with a classic straw man: pretending that there are people out there who absolutely 100% guarantee NCAA titles for incoming true freshmen based on high school results, and then criticizing these people for being overzealous. The conclusion would be reasonable if the premise weren't so silly, as you can search the forum high and low, and not find a single post that fits JT1's description.

 

Then everyone else jumps on JT1, some saying that his argument that high school success doesn't guarantee college success is so comically obvious that it doesn't merit a post (which is 100% correct), and others saying that he's actually claiming that less successful high schoolers are more apt to succeed than more successful guys (which isn't what he's saying).

 

Then the usual petty attacks and counterattacks from and to JT1.

 

What a waste of time. What everyone knew and agreed upon before this thread, and after it, is that high school success strongly predicts collegiate success but doesn't guarantee it. Can we close this idiotic thread and move on now?

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